Boromir

You can view the content of all the MapSource maps here. I can say the road detail on the Canada Topo maps are way better than the City Select North America out in the sticks where I live. There are no streets on the City Select North America map for my town at all, but the topo is pretty complete. The topo doesn't support routing to a street address, but it can route to a waypoint. The Topo maps also have very good water detail, and this could be very useful for a Fire Department, particularly if you service a rural area. I was surprised to find most of the ponds/dugouts along the highway I regularly drive are on the the topo maps.

In case you haven't found this yet, most of the maps are viewable online. Be sure to click the 'more' button to get full map detail on the Garmin viewer. MapSource Map Viewer: http://www.garmin.com/cartography/ Magellan Web Viewer: http://www.magellangps.com/en/products/webviewer/ I suggest you look at the most important areas for you, and decide from there. I used these to compare the Garmin Canadian topo maps with Magellan's, and found the Garmin maps were well worth the extra cost in that case (IMHO).

I just switched from my Magellan Meridian Gold to a Garmin Vista C because the Garmin Canadian Topo maps are much better than Magellans (IMHO). If the topo maps were equal I would have stayed with Magellan because of the SD memory. The Vista C is my third GPS purchase, my first was a yellow eTrex that served me well until I decided to move up to a mapping model. When the time comes to buy again I doubt I will eliminate any unit based on brand, but depending what map packages I end up buying I may have to stick with Garmin.

I have bought singles and sets at London Drugs and Canadian Tire. Stock seems to be hit or miss at both, but 2 different sets have been in stock at the Canadian Tire in St. Albert, Alberta recently.

I asked one of the Garmin dealers that question a few weeks back and they said no. Apparently the only way to get it is in the package with the cf Que (or the new bluetooth GPS 10 now I would think). I suspect this is due to the way Garmin activates mapping software to specific GPS units.

As I understand you can request an 'off-road' route when going to a waypoint, which should result in the unit pointing directly to the cache as one would want for geocaching. Can anyone confirm this? This is apparently how the Quest works, so I hope the cf Que works the same way.

I am debating getting the Cf Que as well. I found this in a user review on Amazon: "A couple of specifics: It is a very good idea to make sure you are running MS Pocket PC 2003 operating system. My iPAQ originally came with Pocket PC 2002 and the Garmin had many problems locking up along with very slow performance. Once I upgraded, the difference was tremendous. The Garmin CF Que 1620 is now very stable and fast." - Mike W. I am not so sure now because my PDA only has PPC2002 installed. Anyone using one of these with PPC2002 with good results, or do I need to upgrade first? Of course if I move up to a newer VGA/PPC2003SE PDA I will probably have bluetooth, which makes the new Garmin GPS 10 an option as well. I really wish I could get the Garmin Que software for use with my current CF GPS. I currently have a GlobalSat BC-307, and I use Oziexplorer CE and MS Streets & Trips with it. I usually use this in the car then switch to a more robust handheld for finding a cache or other outdoor use. Ozi is great if you have a source for good maps, and MS S&T is great for the price, but neither are spectacular for auto navigation imho. The GPS unit itself works well, and there is probably better software available if you need it. I think if the cf Que was available when I made the purchase I would have went that way instead.

I am considering picking up an Etrex Vista and the Topo maps. I am wondering if the topo maps are easily usable on the grayscale screen, or if the roads, rivers and topo lines become hard to distinguish? Thanks

It now includes Mapsend Topo Canada It seems to have a new location: Map Viewer The old link still works, but doesn't offer as many maps. Based on a quick look the Magellan maps appear to have a 30m interval between contour lines, where the Garmin maps have 25ft between lines. 30m intervals is way too infrequent IMHO. Hopefully there is more detail in the actual product than the online viewer shows. For example if you look at Athabasca, AB on the Garmin map you can see that the north river bank is a VERY steep rise of about 125 ft and then it flattens out for the most part. The Magellan map gives no good indication of this slope as the first topo line is about 300-400m from the river. Clicking on the Magellan map from the river to the topo line gives incorrect (Interpolated?) elevations indicating that there is a steady rise from the river to the contour line. If I am buying a topo map a steep slope like this is exactly the kind of thing I want to be able to clearly see. On the other hand the Magellan topo appears to have lots of POIs. This map also appears to have more road detail than the S&D map, at least in some rural areas, so it may be worth the upgrade even if the topo is lacking.

I don't think this has been posted yet. Magellan has added a MapSend Online Viewer to the website. Garmin has had this for a long time, I'm glad to see Magellan now offering the same feature.

Excellent. Magellan has added an online map viewer (like Garmin has had for a long time) as well. It doesn't have MapSend Topo Canada yet, so I will wait for that before I order. The US topo maps look pretty good based on a quick look.

I have the same PDA and a CF GPS as well. I agree, great in car, but not the best outdoors. I alway use a GPS handheld (MeriGold or eTrex) when outside. I don't like the PDA outside mainly due to the lack of environmental and impact resistance. I am not sure if any of the models you listed have a CF slot. If I upgraded to a Dell x30 (or other PDA without CF) I would probably get a bluetooth GPS for using the PDA in car.

We had a bit of free time so we tried some last minute caching yesterday, but it appears the recent weather was against us. GCJDE6 was in an area that looks like it was a stream during the storm, it may still be there but if so it is well hidden. We looked for quite a while, but I will admit I might have spent even more time looking if I was not worried it had washed away. GCH9P8 was unaccessible due to a trail closure. I posted some pictures to the logs.

I will agree that the 60c is generally nicer than the Meridian Gold, but coinsidering the price difference one would hope so. The 60C costs $530 CDN w/o maps (about $660 with routable maps), and the MeriGold is $360 CDN with non-routable maps. If you want the routable Canadian maps for the Magellan the difference will be smaller (and I hear Garmin's might be better), and if you want Canadian topo maps the Garmin is the only choice. The routing feature does nothing for me personally. If you live elsewhere the bundles/maps will be different. As for accuracy, I took my MeriGold to a survey point and was accurate to within 2m of it. Also last time out I had 2 occasions where my MeriGold put me within 1-2 m of the cache. Of course both those are with WAAS. You do have to stop for a short time, or take a few steps backward, when you get close to the cache to get the MeriGold to settle down (it tries to anticipate your movement I think), but if you do that you will not have any accuracy problems from my experience. That being said if I was buying now I would probably get the 60CS (or 76CS), and the topo maps. Of course my bank account would not forgive me for a few months. The only thing I really dislike about the Garmins is the memory is not expandable with standard memory cards like the Meridians. As for the maps, when I bought the MeriGold the Magellan maps were better than the Garmin maps in my area. Of course with Garmin releasing new maps recently they now have the edge.

00-10 miles: Found 1/1 10-20 miles: Found 1/1 20-30 miles: Found 0/1 (Recommends Boat, or ATV/Snowmobile in Winter) 30-40 miles: Found 0/1 40-50 miles: Found 0/1 (Recommends ATV/Snowmobile) 50-60 miles: Found 0/1 60-70 miles: Found 2/6 70-80 miles: Found 0/30 80-90 miles: Found 3/56 90-100 miles: Found 0/9 So 107 within 100 miles, 7 of which I have already found. Only 6 within 60 miles, 2 of which I have already found and 2 that require equipment I don't have. The one not found that is kind of close and doesn't require special equipment is kind of out of the way, it is more worth my time to head toward the more cache rich 70-90 mile range (almost all of which are south of me) and try to do at least 2, and enjoy the other benefits of the big city while I am there.

This is probably your best bet: Natural Resources Canada - GeoNames These are the results I found, they should be the right lakes. There were several lakes with each of those names in Canada, but these are in the Whiteshell area according to the map: George Lake: 50° 15' 01" N - 95° 29' 58" W Hunt Lake: 49° 44' 32" N - 95° 10' 40" W

Today I found myself standing where my GPSr said the cache was about 1m away, and sure enough it was. The amazing thing is it happened again on another cache today as well. I think WAAS is to blame for this precision. I had a WAAS signal, and I assume the placer did as well. Compared to my pre-WAAS geocaching days this is amazing. Of course unless you know the placer had the same level of accuracy you can't count on the cache being as close as the GPSr says. Between this and my good results at a Canadian Base Network marker I think WAAS is working fine up here around Edmonton.

Twice today I found myself with the GPSr (MeriGold) saying the cache was about 1m, and sure enough it was. I had a WAAS signal, and I assume the person who placed the cache did as well. All I can say is WOW. I guess this is more indication (got good results at a base network marker as well) that WAAS seems to work well in Canada (at least around Edmonton). My first couple cache finds (back in 2001) certainly required a much broader search once I got to the area due to the larger GPSr errors for the placement and search combined.

Some reading on Bears and Cats, and what to do if you encounter one: Bear in Mind Living with Cougars (aka Mountain Lions and a few other names)

I didn't realize how much detail the Garmin MetroGuide had. I just looked at the MetroGuide Canada v4 on the Garmin website map viewer. All I can say is WOW. The small town I live in went from a spot where a few roads meet to street level detail and many POIs since the old Garmin Canada maps (whatever it was called). The new topo map seems to have the same street detail as the MetroGuide (at least around here), without the POIs and routing of course. With these updated maps Garmin is certainly in the lead. For my uses I think I would get the topo before the MetroGuide, routing is not important to me (as long as I can see the roads), and POIs would only rarely be useful to me. Topo on the other hand is nice for geocaching and any other walks in and around valleys and ravines, and doesn't require a high end GPSr for full functionality. I just wish Garmin would use SD cards for memory like the Magellans, especially with the more detailed (bigger) maps. Hmm, better start saving my pennies for that 76cs, Topo and MetroGuide. Of course that is a lot of pennies, probably about 92500 or so. Yikes.

Brick and mortar stores are nice (CT and MEC get a fair share of my money) but online shops (www.gpscentral.ca for example) may give you a better deal, even with shipping. Since you are looking at mapping GPSr units I assume you will want the enhanced map software. One nice things about Magellan is that they seem more inclined to offer some good deals on packages with the GPSr and map software. If you budget allows, and you don't mind a larger GPSr, the Magellan Meridian Gold Special Edition Canada (MeriGold, 16MB SD, MapSend Canada CD) is a great value at about $360 (IMHO). A Legend ($240) and map software (MetroGuide $130 or Topo $160) is a bit more. The MeriGold will do routing, with DirectRoute software (for another $180). The MeriGold also has expandable memory with standard memory cards (also used in some cameras/PDAs). I don't think the Legend or SportTrak have the routing feature or expandable memory. If you want Canada topo maps you will have to go Garmin as Magellan has no such product as of yet (about $160). I had an eTrex Yellow, and it worked well for me. Last summer I moved up to the MeriGold to get the mapping features. Been happy with it so far. Hopefully some of that rambling was helpful.

I use the maps from Toporama with OziCE. They are square to the lat/lon grid and the borders are at exact degrees (or quarter/half degrees for the higher detail maps), so very easy to calibrate for Ozi. They have elevation lines, but no numbers, but they still give a pretty good indication of the terrain. The roads and trails shown are typically very accurate, at least around here, better than MapSend and MS S&T in many ways. They are also free. I think these may be the same maps as the link above provides.

I wear my Scott eVest, but it ships from the US and the company they ship with charges rather high brokerage fees. Too bad they don't ship USPS. Most of my Geocaching related stuff I keep in a fanny pack ready to go, only the GPS typically lives in the eVest, the rest is filled with camera, PDA, CF GPS (for PDA), Cell Phone, batteries, LED flashlight, other things I have forgotten about...

I have the MeriGold and am happy with it. If money was no object I think I could see it replaced with a 60cs, but my super7 investments have not paid off yet. I think the MeriGold (especially the SE Canada package) is probably the best value for money GPSr available right now. I am not familiar with the 60, except for reading a bit, but here are the differences (as I recall, you should confirm this stuff): - Price (as you said) - I think the Garmin has Colour Screen and probably has a better resolution than the Magellan. The Garmin 76 series certainly have a much better resolution LCD than the Meridians, which means more info/detail can be on the screen at one time. - MeriGold is available in a package with map software. - Both have routable map software available. The software in the MeriGold SE package is not routable. I think both only have a handful of routable cities in Canada. - Garmin will soon have topo map software available for Canada, Magellan has not announced such a product. - Magellan uses standard memory cards (SD), the Garmin has internal memory (a decent amount) and I don't think it is expandable with the Garmin proprietary garmin cards. - Garmin has the nifty geocaching functions, but I don't know much about them. Up to you if the extra's are worth spending twice as much to you, for me they were not. For Geocaching you don't (imho) need the 60, but then you don't need the Gold either, I did my first few with an eTrex yellow with no problems.

According to http://gpsinformation.net/mgoldreview/magellanbasemap.htm the Meridians will take 512 MB SD cards. I have seen people post on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Magellan_Meridian/ that the 512MB units do indeed work, at least with the latest firmware. I have never tried the 256 MB SD I own, the 16MB it came with holds a pretty good size area (Alberta & British Columbia) at least with the non-topo/non-routing maps. There is a lot of info here: http://gpsinformation.net/MeridianFAQv2_0.pdf about the Meridian GPS units. But be careful, some of the tricks in there can break your GPSr if done incorrectly.