MAntunes

Very well noted. I, as one of the 'guilty ones', because I'm PM since 2002, send an email to Groundspeak offering to pay all the vat amount that maybe have been paid on my behalf during all these years. The only thing I requested was an evidence that the vat amount was effectively paid to an EU vat entity - request # 358817 in case anyone wants, and can, check it. I received the answer that they cannot charge me retroactively. With that answer it seemed to me that Groundspeak effectively paid the vat amount since it is due. Now, I read rumours that they may haven't paid the vat amount.... this doesn't fit with the answer I got from GS...

Well noted. This is how it was before this topic: http://web.archive.o...ng.com/premium/ Send me your iban # by and I'll pay you half of that money, if no one else wants help, to know if Groundspeak was lying to us or not. I'll pay to know the truth - as I already said, this is not about a few euros but about discrimination and lack of respect on the european geocachers.

Me too. I'll stay as basic member, hopefully, as much as I stayed as Charter Member which, in March next year, will sum about 11,5 years. I'm curious. Have you personally written Groundspeak and explained to them that because of the way they are handling this single issue, they are losing the support of a Charter Member? Seriously, if I was in your position and felt as you do, I would write such a letter. In it, I would detail the reasons why you choose to support Groundspeak from the very start. What it was about the company that made it special and convinced you to give your money to them. Continue with why you have supported them over the years, then go into what has changed that has brought you to this point. If I was running the show and received such an email, I would take it very seriously and would have to take a careful look at what we were doing. Edit:CWWC Yes I did. Honestly, during all this years, I have written several times directly to Groundspeak - and one time, at the beginning, I even got a personal answer from the Jeremy himself. Despite english is not my mother language, I have no problems about expressing myself. About this issue, I even offered myself to pay all the vat amounts Groundspeak seems has being paid on my behalf during all this years - as I already said, this is not about a few euros but it is about discrimination and lack of respect on the europeans geocachers. I received a "thank you" for my offer but they cannot charge me retroactively.

Me too. I'll stay as basic member, hopefully, as much as I stayed as Charter Member which, in March next year, will sum about 11,5 years.

Seems a good idea. Not only will/would prevent some repetitions but also would show a clear position from Groundspeak on specific subjects. But... is Groundspeak paying attention and answering to the foruns?

What about a footer in each log we write? This is really public! That´s a really great idea! I will go for that Mee too.

The 2005 version ( http://www.geocaching.com/subscribe/ ) contained the text: It can be found at the "Way-back-machine" at archive.org: http://web.archive.o....com/subscribe/ I was doing the very same reseach. I found it in 2011/02/09 version http://web.archive.o...ip/default.aspx and the exact statement, was: " Support Geocaching.com<br style="color: rgb(66, 66, 66); font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 14px;">Support the development and maintenance of the Geocaching.com site. As long as you continue to renew your membership, you will always be guaranteed the rate at which you first became a Premium Member! " But, as other said that proved to be a silly promise. And soon or later GS would be forced to abandon it. The problem is the lack of comunication and respect for its customers that GS persistently shows. A clear, direct and honest comunication and I think we all would understand the need to move forward with the price policy. edit: "2011/02/09"

I support this idea.

There has NEVER been any business related announcement in the newsletter. There has never even been any news in the newsletter. Complaining that they are now ignoring you in the newsletter just makes you look like a complainer. Here's my suggestion to all of you collectively. If you're going to quit, quit and get it over with. If you are not going to re-up your premium membership, then don't. If you are going to report them for tax fraud, do it. This is the way that Groundspeak does business. It has been this way for quite some time, so for all of you to sit here and continually whine and place idle threats and not actually do anything, or add anything useful to the discussion, just makes you look like a bunch of whiners. Anyone that thinks that Groundspeak is going to give them a personalized response about their accounting system, in a public forum, and then complains when it doesn't come, probably has much bigger problems going on then just being charged a couple of extra euros. What else to expect from an American... Edited to add: This discussion will keep on going until there is an answer. And even if there is not, it should keep going just to make more people aware that they are being cheated upon by G$ in several ways on this topic! I am American but you can bet that i don't agree with Don_J. That's one of the problems with our society,, people turning their heads and not standing up for what is right. What i am seeing shouldn't be just swept under the rug. To be honest though, this is what i feel Groundspeak is hoping for. Maybe not swept under the rug but that the concern will lose interest and go away. I've seen it happen a few times on this website. The basic membership fee for using the site should be the same for everyone. Taxes, vat, or other fees levied from beyond Groundspeak's control would simply be added at checkout. To surprise customers with an arbitrary price and say it covers fluctuations and the such is not right. Very well said! I was not affected by this change in the price policy and despite I have my subscription paid until next year, I intend to stop it - and stop being a Charter Member also - because I think is it wrong the way it was implemented and I can't turn my head just because it didn't affect me. It's a matter of respect and consideration, not a matter of a few euros... But now, let me stop whining... When the time comes, I'll vote with my credit card. I was decided to contain my intervention here in this topic but your words touched me.

You're talking about phisical products that have different logistic costs. How does it cost to GS to change the expiry date of my PM subscription? I guess it costs the same to change the same atribute to a PM membership in any place where € and £ are not the official currencies. However it's positive that you agree there's a discrimination from GS in this subject. That's the main issue, here in this topic. For the other products I can easily choose another company to buy from the products I need - except in geocaching and that's why GS is abusing its position in the market. As said several times in this topic, GS can raise the price if needed but use the same base price to everyone, and charge vat as required and detail everything in the invoice. Even the non business customers or the final consumers, if you prefer, needs to know that a vat registration exists from whom is charging the vat amount. It's their way to know that their money is being correctly taken as vat and not as a suspicious and discriminatory raise in the subscription fee.

Well, are you sure that GS lackeys know it? They're in the learning curve...

Be asured that there is forums out here that are frequented more thorougly. Even though there is not that many members discussing in here each of those speak for more than just one. I have been to several events lately and there have been many more upset about this policy that´s happening right now. From the Marketing: "A happy customer tells one friend, an unhappy customer tells everybody."

No! The supposed better quality of European caches - whatever it is quality - is the result of the work and imagination of European geocachers. Not an effort or investment from Groundspeak. So, why should European geocachers (actually €uro geocachers ) pay more for something that is "better" due to their own effort and work? I, as said several times in this topic, agree that if GrounSpeak needs more money should raise the base price for everyone, equally. And then add VAT/taxes as applicable.

Ok, I'll wait until my next renewal. But Groundspeak has a lot to improve in the communication strategy with its customers.

(bold is mine) Exactly what's happening with me! I WANT TO STAY and continue to support Groundspeak and this hobby in Geocaching.com! I am proud of being a Charter Member (the only one in Portugal) and helped Groundspeak from the very first year - I still remember the messages and appeals, back in August, 2002, to be part of the "first money" that helped GrounsSpeak in those first and very important years that defines if a new business succeeds or not. But, despite I was not directly affected (my subscription is automatically renewed every year and I paid the usual price) I can't accept this discrimination over EU Geocachers (they already fixed the currency to European countries that don't use €). So, if this situation remains unanswered and unsolved, my interpretation is that Groundspeak is forcing me to abandon it.

Glad you agree: Groundspeak is ripping us off! That's the point.

No need to sorry. I was just pointing to another similar topic. It's normal that, between thousands of topics, we "dnf" the one we're searching for. About Ads in the pages you pointed, I issued a log in one of my caches and the only advertising I found , before and after the log, was the "Advertising with Us" from Groundspeak. Was this Ads the ones You were referring to?

In another topic this was already discussed and seems it has nothing to do with Groundspeak. But show (url) some of the subsites were you have found ads in and I can check if it happens with me too. I use adblock and chrome.

The main issue remains. How can one justify 29,99€ for EU (24,99 £ for UK) geocachers even if the EU's highest vat rate is applied? And how can one justify that I cannot choose the currency to be used in my payment (and assume the exchange risks) unless I lie about my Country? Again, if Groundspeak needs more money say it clearly and raise the fee for everyone, equally, and I'll be glad to continue to support them after my present subscription. Post screenshoted.

I think, 'Found' logs are to report the finding of a geocache, tell the story and the sensations that adventure gave to the finder and 'needs maintenance' log is to report a situation that should drive the owner's attention. The latter sets on the 'needs maintenance' flag. They're different type of logs as they are different type of situations and should be kept separated, in my opinion.

Maybe I can help a little bit. The opposite also happens and I have an actual example of it. I'm a software developer in a pharmaceutical company here in Portugal, and we're developing a report to show to US authorities the origin and precedence of all raw and package materials used in our products. It is not only enough that the final product passes all the quality tests during and after the development of the product but it is also necessary to show the origin of the materials. And what will happen if we do not comply with US legislation? Maybe we won't sell our products in the US market...

Seems that, it is OK to post links to other websites that helps selling Groundspeak's products. It is not OK to post links to other websites that helps to buy Groundspeak's products at a better price for the final consumer. Post screenshoted.

If you money has already taken from your account, contact Groundspeak through their email address - contact@Groundspeak.com - so they can fix the expiry date of your subscription. If your money hasn't yet taken from your account, and being you from an European country, consider this topic before contacting Groundspeak, asking them to take your money: Different prices of Premium Membership Discrimination of Europeans? I'm considering that topic very seriously and I regret that it lasts 11 months until my next renewal... one month before and the decision would be very different...

It seems to me that Groundspeak once again lacks communication with its customers... The attempts to explain the difference in price for EU customers (and maybe other region outside US) are not convincing. What is happening Groundspeak? Are you sick of your customers and supporters outside US? I just renewed my membership and the price was the usual, and I would easily accept a raise but not this way as it seems to be - only for some and not for all.

Zero pop-up ads on the Groundspeak's web sites.