Team Chevitanondr

Thanks to everyone for their ideas I'm going to leave the cache active as the rocks are moved but still serving their purpose. On future caches I'll be more specific for those who do read the descriptions. Thanks again. Team Chevitanondr

I find this part intriguing. What information was provided to let people know which one stone needed to be turned to find the cache? I didn't see anything in the cache description that would tell me which stone it was. I imagine that most cachers are just going to start turning rocks over in their search, and I can't say that I blame them. If you don't provide cachers with the information they need, don't expect to control their behaviour. Personally, I prefer challenging caches, not difficult ones like this one. A challenging cache requires you to think a little about the cache location, and once the light bulb in your head goes off, it's obvious. A difficult cache is just the opposite. No amount of reasoning or deduction will help locate it. A three year old could find a cache in a rock pile by just turning over rocks until he turns over the right one. Difficult and time-consuming? Yes, but not particularly challenging. I think you may have misread what I had written ..you did not need to move anything. The way it was if you just looked at the area there was an obvious spot where the cache was hidden. There was a cubby created by the stones the way they were sitting where the cache fit right in. The camo made it a little more difficult to spot but it was just sitting in this cubby. The description said that no lifting was needed but I am thinking I needed to be more obvious with both the description and clue. The hint "Leave no stone turned", may well be misread by many people as, Leave no stone unturned. If I had read that hint, I may very well have thought you meant it was under a stone. Your hint, though it seems like a good one, may have had the opposite effect of what you were after. Yup I definitely think that is the case. I was concerned about that when I had written it but wanted it to be a little fun. I know that there have been times when we have been out and read the description and clue and on a subsequent read through gone DOH! we weren't reading that right. I just didn't think through the consequences (and apparent strength of some geocachers) would have to the area.

This reminds me of the time I went looking for a similar cache with the cache owner tagging along to watch the fun. We walked to the area, and he told me the spot, and the cache, should be obvious to any experienced cacher without moving anything. I stood there, scratching my head, not seeing anything that stuck out. As far as the cache owner was concerned, there might as well have been a big red neon arrow pointing to the spot the cache was in, but it just didn't pop out at me. I eventually found the cache, but only after stumbling around for a while. The lesson I, and the cache owner, learned was that what seems obvious to one person may be not so obvious to someone else. Cachers who looked for that cache in the following months seemed split about fifty/fifty; a lot of cachers spotted the hiding place right away. A lot of others, maybe half, either took the pick-up-random-rocks approach and eventually found it that way, or gave up in frustration. --Larry Well now the spot no longer exists. Like I said it was my first cache so all part of the learning curve. I think once the weather clears up I will locate the cache and adjust the wording of the description to try to fix the situation a bit. I appreciate hearing your about your experience it sounds very similar to the situation.

I find this part intriguing. What information was provided to let people know which one stone needed to be turned to find the cache? I didn't see anything in the cache description that would tell me which stone it was. I imagine that most cachers are just going to start turning rocks over in their search, and I can't say that I blame them. If you don't provide cachers with the information they need, don't expect to control their behaviour. Personally, I prefer challenging caches, not difficult ones like this one. A challenging cache requires you to think a little about the cache location, and once the light bulb in your head goes off, it's obvious. A difficult cache is just the opposite. No amount of reasoning or deduction will help locate it. A three year old could find a cache in a rock pile by just turning over rocks until he turns over the right one. Difficult and time-consuming? Yes, but not particularly challenging. I think you may have misread what I had written ..you did not need to move anything. The way it was if you just looked at the area there was an obvious spot where the cache was hidden. There was a cubby created by the stones the way they were sitting where the cache fit right in. The camo made it a little more difficult to spot but it was just sitting in this cubby. The description said that no lifting was needed but I am thinking I needed to be more obvious with both the description and clue.

I can't speak for the others, but in my case I'd be tempted to put this cache on my Ignore List not because of the location but because of the type of hide. I get bored very quickly if I find myself needing to lift every rock in a rock pile looking for the one that either covers or contains the cache. It's like looking for a needle in a haystack: It just seems like a brainless exercise of picking up and staring at hundreds of rocks at random, and the time it takes to find the cache is a matter of pure chance. And that isn't my idea of a good time. Of course, this is a favorite type of hide for quite a few cachers I know. To each his own! --Larry That is the sad and disappointing part of this cache. The way it was hidden originally you shouldn't have had to move a single rock. The container has good camo but I had placed it with the intention being that observation was more important than physical action. Obviously I needed to be more clear in my description and clue ...you live you learn.

Thank you AZcachemeister I will probably follow through on your suggestion once I have a chance to go out and locate the cache. My least favorite kind of cache as well but your scenario is not a reason to archive it. It's location probably is though.. knowschad and bflentje in reference to you saying that you wouldn't bother with a cache like this, like the title of this thread that is YOUR opinion. That being said though this culvert borders a small patch of woods that are part of a nature study and therefore there is interesting wildlife and scenery despite the proximity to the shopping center. However considering the amount of damage done I am glad I didn't place this in a more pristine area and I will continue to consider that when placing future caches.

So I put out my first geocache GC37627 and it was a fairly easy park and grab near a culvert in a shopping center. The cache is in the rocks above the culvert and required no climbing and at the time no need to move any rocks. (The description says all of this.) I went to check on the cache today after one person said DNF then another said they found it but it was further out than they expected. Going out there I can tell that people did not follow the description. The rocks that were once stable to walk on ...though you didn't need to... have now all been moved around and are loose making the area much more dangerous to walk on. I didn't find the cache but it was also raining and I didn't have much of a chance to look. (I am pretty sure it is there but has migrated.) Now my question that I pose to anyone reading this is ... Should I archive the cache so that people don't disrupt the area any more than they have? OR Do I up the terrain and put a warning about the loose rocks? (I am going to go back and check on it again when the weather is better.) I will say that I am upset over the lack of regard for the area BUT the rocks still serve the purpose that they are there for it has just made it more dangerous for people who choose to walk on them which most people wouldn't do anyhow especially non-cachers.

I think if I had seen someone not trading appropriately I might check the log book in the cache and if I could find them on the site send them a quick friendly reminder when I got home. (And I'm not being sarcastic with the word friendly.) I wouldn't want to take the chance of causing any type of confrontation at the cache site, especially with kids being involved.. but a polite note may just let them know that when they leave the cache empty another group of kids might not get to enjoy the cache the way their kids did. I know swag is not the point of geocaching but it is a fun bonus and I make a point of adding swag even if we didn't take any. If I find an empty cache that is big enough to hold swag I make sure to add several items so that if the next finder has a few kids no one is disappointed. We are having so much fun as newer cachers that I would hate for anyone else not to have just as much fun.

My family and I are also new to geocaching and had noticed the swag issues. My daughter is still an infant and has been on every excursion with us and we document our outings with photos and a journal. We try to trade a trinket at each box so that when she gets older we can show her the "treasures" she has been there for. We have had our share of hits and misses but we bring with us a decent collection of goodies (cheap but clean and new) and place them into the boxes. We are planning to put out a letterbox hybrid because we like stamping into our journal and hope that even if the swag is not great on a given day the stamp will be there as a memento for people who visit our cache.