thanks all for your help with this problem after trying some of your suggested ideas and some back and forth with geocaching hq and many hours behind the screen I seemed to have resolved the problem all be it not quit sure how. some software downloads from garmin and some tweaks on windows 7 may have held the key. I believe by one of the emails I received from geo hq that the main problem first originated with them and not my device they were still very helpful on this issue now time to get back out there for a play cheers