Team Torque

None at all. My motorcycle gets 50mpg.

I didn't know about this practice and would never log a PC. As for it being a way to meet other Geocachers I would rather meet under different circumstances that keeps my karma intact.

It would be illegal. When the gold spike was driven in the rail linking the east and west the pony express went out of business shortly there after. There was a better and more efficient way to deliver mail from one side of the country to the other. With that said the RIAA is trying to keep an dead industry alive. With the ability to distribute music via the Internet pressing CDs and distribute them is no longer necessary. The RIAA is adding nothing to the process of a band making music and you listening to it except unnecessary cost. What they are doing is passing protectionist laws that are not in the best interest of the consumers or the bands they represent.

Great I glade to see you finally admit that rewarding is "one of many reasons" and since they are reasons they are not arbitrary.

Your kidding right? It is based on the fact that they paid. If you don't want to reward premium member then don't place any MOCs. As for your misuse of the word arbitrary I don't know what to say. By your definition people who are members of the country club are arbitrarily allowed to play golf there just because they paid. No one checks to see if they are a good golfer or not. But I will say it one more time. The reason people are allowed to hunt MO caches are because they paid. The reason people place MOCs are to reward those who have supported the site. Saying is is arbitrary is a total miss characterization and implies Groundspeak is victimizing or somehow being unfair to people who are not premium members. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Do you have knowledge of any steps Groundspeak takes to ensure that those sending them money for 'premium memberships' are any better or worse than anyone else?? No but I you are presenting a scenario that I never made the argument for or againist. Really this has not to do with the question. Me either. Has nothing to do with anything. Still presents a scenario that has nothing to do with anything. No. Arbitrary Determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle. It would be arbitrary if the moderators of this forum decided who could see what cache based on their mood for the day. Basing it on a reason like rewarding people who are supporting the site by definition is not arbitrary. Everyone knows how they can see MOCs. It is not by chance, whim or impulse. It is by becoming a member.

What I do is solve business problems with technology. That is not a catch phrase that is what I do as a consultant. So yes when you start talking about a business models and what drives them I do have some experience.

Nice theory that MOCs are slowing expansion of the business but show me any evidence that is happening. I would be very interested in Geocaching's business model or "angle" as you call it. I'm sure the dollars come from a combination of premium memberships and the online store. I am also positive they have studied their business more than you or I have and if MOCs were going to impact new members not staying they would not have implemented them. Like you I have no evidence, but would bet the reasons new cachers stop caching after a few finds varies greatly. What percentage would stay if there first cache was a great cache? Who knows? But what makes up a great cache varies even among long time cachers. What you think is a great cache may turn a new cacher off. Maybe finding a few parking lot micros gives a new cacher the confidence to hunt for the 3 and 4 star ones? See I can make up ungrounded theories too. Or have I "lost you" on the concept?

I'm pretty sure the ARPANet was gone well before then. The term Internet came to play in 1974 as ARPANet began its phase-out. TCP/IP based Internet had its roots back in the 1970's and was adopted by the Defence Dept. in 1980 and universally adopted by 1983 replacing NCP (Network Control Protocol) or the last remnants of ARPANet. The government funded 56K backbone NSFNet came about in the mid-1980's. Gopher didn't come around until 1991. History lesson aside, you are right! Those were the days! In fact, I just found the old manual for ToneLoc! All correct, yes, except that ARPANet existed until 1990, despite the fact that IP-based MILNet and NSFNet were both in full swing by then. Gopher was publicly released in 1991, but since it was developed at the UofM, I wonder if Gopher was privately up and running at UofM pre-1991? That would be about the correct time. Late 1990 early 91 when I go that access. It started out as exploring the Telenet (not telnet) it was a dialup access system that allowed me to get the 50 miles to UofM without paying long distance phone charges. I don't remember if I had a 9600 baud modem or it I was still using the 300 baud acoustic coupler. LOL

It is not arbitrary. It is a reward for members who have paid so everyone including non-members have a site to enjoy.

It was a variation on the failed warchalking concept. It's kind of like how Geo gets geoappended to geoeverything around geohere. I thought all this "war" stuff came from Wardialing. Back in the day (geeze, did I just say that) a wardialer was a machine that would dial all the numbers in a exchange and listen for a computer at the other end. When it got a good tone, it would record the number. You would plug your wardialer in, go out for the day, and when you returned you would have a list of numbers that you could then call with your trusty 900 baud modem and try to hack into Now lets all get out our Captain Crunch whistles while we are at it. -dave I still have a copy of toneloc around here somewhere. What great software. Start it at night and by morning you have a list of computers to try and hack. My first real hack with it was UofM gopher server. Password was an easy guess of gomblue. Gave me access to what was then called ARPANet. Those were the days.

Stealing someone else's internet connection is NOT wardriving. Wardriving is just mapping wireless access points. Those cachers who used someone's internet connection did something illegal. (breaking into their victims network) Depending on what kind of connection the AP owner has (dialup, paying per traffic?) it might cost his money. Most wardrivers are against illegal use of open networks. Which doesn't mean that everybody not securing their network doesn't deserve some kind of reminder how stupid he is ;p I disagree. This Week in Tech just had a good discussion on the subject. There is no case law that makes borrowing Internet access through a open unsecured WAP illegal. How is one supposed to know when they find a unsecured access point if it is open for anyone to use (like a coffee shops and airports) or if it is a private network not intended for your use?

Sometimes recalibrating my compass works. Sometimes I just have to resort to using the map screen. I have had one or two occasions where even the map would not work. It would look like I was walking right toward it then jump 50 to 500 feet away. Maybe just bad reception? I will try setting mine to 2 mph and 5 seconds and see how that goes.

Don't be ridiculous. You may be right that technology will advance to keep us driving, but petroleum is nevertheless a finite resource, and it will run out. That's not ridiculous, it's simple economics. But because you don't seem to understand the way he put it, maybe this page will make it easier for you to understand. The laws of economics don't apply to oil because the US Government welfares the oil companies in the US. If the laws of economics did apply we would be paying what the UK does. It is also good to know so many people have crystal balls that allows them to see how long it will take for viable alternatives to be developed.

I hope it goes like in the UK. Getting the SUVs off the road will be safer for me and my motorcycle. And by the way gas is a finite natural resource not a commodity. Some day it will run out. The US Dept of Energy estimates 2060. It is just selfish not to try to conserve some for our grandkids. But to answer the question no it will not effect my caching. My motorcycle gets great mileage. Maybe it will as I get larger numbers and have to go a longer distance to cache.

Pagan?

So I had a DNF after looking for a half hour at a spot that was a 1/1. After getting back home and looking here I found it had been pulled by the cache owner just hours before. Do I (or even could I) log the DNF? I didn't because it was not an active cache when I was looking for it.

I believe you're referring again to 3.13C "GEOCACHERS SHALL BE HELD RESPONSABLE FOR ANY AND ALL DAMAGE TO CITY OF SALEM PARK PROPERTY AND FACILITIES AS A RESULT OF USE " If a visitor causes damage to the park property or facilities, they should be charged whether they are a geocacher or not. This sounds reasonable to me. This is the one sticky point for me. I agree with you 100% that anyone who causes damage should be held responsible. The problem I have is Geocachers are being singled out in this section for no apparent reason. My guess is, as park guest go, Geocachers are the least likely cause damage and one of the most likely groups to leave the area better than they found it. To me the sky is not falling but I would like to see the city console members better educated as to who Geocachers are.

Imagine that a mere 607 will get you on the top 1000 list.

Archery is such a close range activity how could that happen? Good advice on wearing orange. I have been sticking to caches in no hunting areas. Hunters can get upset if they think you are scaring away their game.

I'm with the don't do it crowd. To me nothing says poorly made web page like some lame midi musik coming out of it. Also that busted at work thing.

Since when did walking around a public park become suspicious? I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations. ~James Madison, speech, Virginia Convention, 1788

For your iPaq get the GPXSonar. I just got it and so far like it a lot. Easy to use once you copy your pocket query to your iPaq. Hint for the pocket query. Once you make it you have to schedule it to run. If you schedule it for today it will show up in your mailbox in 10 or 15 minutes.

I'll bring my 20 year old son. He is still my child. I would say the law may be too vague to be enforceable. Also if I could prove that they didn't ticket women but the did men I would argue it was being enforced in a discriminatory manor. Profiling me because I am a man. They can't use common sense or the law would be unenforceable.

Inkubus Sukkubus Pink Floyd Do any of you do Podcast? Kind of like talk radio only better. I like stuff like NPR and Liberal talk. For you geeks like me check out This Week In Tech or TWIT podcast for short. It is by Leo Laport from the old TechTV.