Tassie_Boy

Actually these days many do have a Gps chip. Most of the time it is a part of the radio chip that also includes the FM radio reciever and another reciever as well. On top of this they also use comms towers to triangulate and if you are in an urban setting they can use wifi to place themselves. Biggest issue is the crappy antennas phones have which accounts for most of the issues.

This. I spent an hour the other night working out the co-ordinates for a puzzle cache I want to find for when I go on holiday when I could have been outside finding a few more caches that are bugging me nearby my house. Don't do it then, puzzles have the best filter available to you, a different icon on the map.

6 years? What's with bringing back the dead threads today?

See you are in Australia. They do have their own version of this site... Yes geocaching.com.au is a huge site and contains many many caches that are not listed on the GS site. That would be the first place to look.

Or just removed it... No, it would be nice to be able to make up an offline list from the website where it is easier to hunt down and get into distant caches.

That little button does nothing more than sending you to a page telling you to go get the app. It would be great if it actually did what it says... (wink wink GS website people)

The problem with doing that is that it doesn't get anybodies attention, it is just another Found log that is not going to raise any concerns unless somebody reads into it. Logging a NA brings it to the attention of reviewer/reviewers and somebody must then actively make a decision about it's future.

CRV would be fine for anything upto a corrogated dirt road or dry paddock, after that it'd probably struggle. A few here have suggested all sorts of jeeps but I'd stay away if you're looking for cheap and smallish. Not sure f you get them there, probably do, but better for a little more serious bush driving would be a Suzuki Jimny or vitara. Jimnys are small, easy to handle and cheap to run and being really just a redesigned sierra they are extremely capable in the scrub.

There's a fairly indepth discussion about a similar badge in the American Award scheme here... Personally I could be considered a bit old fashioned with award schemes but would all of this not be better off as a part of a navigation badge? I know at my group the scouts can't use a map and even the leaders struggle meaning that when they get to venturers and they are expected to be able to navigate in the bush they are screwed.

Just had a quick play with it and it saved a good half of the Tasmanian map. Simply while online select "Save to offline List" and it's all there ready to go when you select it from the list, even gives saved caches on a map now rather than just a list. Details, Logs, Hints, Attributes, Inventory and now even photos are there and there is no need to download anything as such, they are just saved from the app's menu while looking at the cache page.

When viewing a cache in offline mode it behaves exactly the same as it would in online mode.

With permission, and with help from local plane spotters you could just build a bloody phone box, make it blindingly obvious what it is and useful to more than just cachers and it could serve as education for the public as well. I'm sure if it's appropriate and with proper permissions it would get through the reviewer.

I can't see where anyone has mentioned this having any effect on the order in which the logs are displayed. At it's most simple this just puts something on a log to show that someone "likes" that log for some reason. Also nobody has mentioned facebook integration either, I assume that this could be done so that the only thing really affected is the "like" counter on that single log. I've done a quick mock-up to show it wouldn't take up too much realestate on the log its self either. https://www.dropbox.com/s/gcgpuf9qngbtrit/logs.jpg

To the OP: As good an idea as this may be in some form there is a group in this community that makes a lot of noise whenever the word "code" is used. It's almost impossible to get your voice heard above them. To those screaming "ALR ALR ALR!!!!!": The ALR rule is just that, a rule put in place by Groundspeak. Rules are made, Rules are modified and Rules are revoked. If GS were to implement such a system then they revoke or more likely modify the ALR rule. I thought I heard that Lab caches had some sort of code to log.

Same issue on PC using Chrome, tried different zoom levels and may or may not work, one cache may work and the one next to it wont. And no not a touch screen, just a normal laptop.

It is that simple to implement. As also stated, it is that simple to fake. A "proof of permission" is only good if it can be verified. Who is going to verify those submissions? The reviewers? Every time a cache submission comes in, they'd have to check to see if permission really was sought/granted. I doubt they'd continue to check every single time and it wouldn't be long and we'd be back to where we are now...CO's hiding caches without permission and noone really checking to make sure. Don't get me wrong, it's a good idea but it's one I'd run by reviewers first...after all, it would only increase their workload, which can, at times, already be unmanagable. In reality the permission wouldn't be verified at submission but it does mean that if any issues arise or if the reviewer suspects there may be in an issue (ie. GZ is clearly in someone's front yard/ a restricted area) they have a point of contact to check it out rather than the usual poo fight that goes on between a Concerned Cacher/Careless CO/Irate Landowner.

The above devices are time based, requiring the user to use the code within a specific set time period (like 30 seconds) before the code changes. People who don't log the find using a phone would not be able to log the cache as the code would have changed multiple times before they log it. Again, if there was a field to submit the time when you found the cache on the log submission page you would do away with the need to log it there and then. Change every 5 minutes rather than 30 seconds would help with watch inaccuracies. For those worries about the codes ending up on the net, make them single use, once a code has been used to log it cannot be used again. If you're worried about groups needing to wait stopping forever so they can all log with own accounts then allow it to dot out 5 single use codes in 5 minutes.

So how is this an improvement over the low-tech solution of a physical log and a pen/pencil? What is the problem that this electronic "one time pad" is trying to solve? It's to solve the "problem" that we must eliminate low-tech wherever we find it. Pretty much. So long as geocaching is fun, informal activity there is really no need for high tech. In fact it could be argued that you don't even need paper logs and simply go by the honor system for logging online. This is, in fact, what most cache owners do. There are a few who seem to want a more formal and serious style of play. The may even view find counts as some kind of score. Using a found log online when you didn't actually find the cache or sign a physical log is to these people nothing but pure and simple cheating. They are looking for technology that eliminates the problems you sometimes have if the log book is full or too wet or your pen malfunctions. Of course whatever technology is used can also malfunction. So none of these ideas are really a workable solution. In addition, short of all geocachers being implanted with an RFID chip or registering their biometric signatures somewhere, these ideas won't eliminate cheating. My suggestion for the those who keep recommending technical solutions for the problems with paper logs, is to get more comfortable underwear. The honour system is a great thing but out relies on two things for it to operate, one party to be trust-worthy and another party to be trust-ful. We know that in this community groups exist that may not fall into one of those categories or the other. We know this because every so often a thread comes up and it runs somewhere along the lines of: "There's a log on my cache page that isn't on the paper log! Can I get this person banned?" Ok so maybe that's a little extreme but you get the point. This group is not trustful of all those that have logged on the cache page. At the opposite end of that is the "found= didn't find" thread, which is up to 50 pages now. That's fifty Pages of people who are not trustworthy enough to use the correct log. Like it or not the people in that first group are concerned about the accuracy of the logs for their cache. With the current mantra being "you play the game your way and and I'll play it mine", an owner with concerns about the accuracy of their logs is just as valid as a hunter who chases their own statistics and don't they get precious about them! Why not give an owner the assurance they need by letting them "play the game their way" and have another for off verification of logs. It is doable, I had my idea picked to pieces but it was only nit picking of an idea only and it would work, yes it could fail but any system can fail, even paper. It seems to me that people are just flat out against change. I understand that some may be afraid that the game may degrade into another version of munzee but nobody is suggesting that caches listed on this site be placed less than the 160m which is currently required, nor is anybody suggesting that logging on the cache page be reduced to pressing the found it button and walking away. At work earlier this week we got talking about our colleges in the area and how they go about their business, expecting different results but doing the same thing season after season. We came to the conclusion that in an industry that is already stuck on ideas of traditionalism that they do these things because that's the way they do them and they can't tell you why they do it that way. Ditto here, we log at GZ on paper because that's what's always been done. We use a dedicated GPS (this one has died out since everyone has been distracted with the intro app but still the same idea) rather than a phone because that's what we use, even though they are slowly morphing to become one and the same. We hate power trails because they offend us for some reason even though nobody is holding a gun to your head to play that game. Ideas like alternates to the traditional paper log come up all the time and people need to remember this is an evolving game. We can, if we want to, access a website from the middle of a paddock to find any of a number of different cache types in any part of the world. A long way from details of where a bucket was placed sent out to a select email list ten years ago. Help shape the game over the next ten years by providing so constructive help rather than the inevitable "pfft never work, just use paper".

So you'd HAVE to log it on site, and couldn't wait until you get home? Ugh. No thanks. I don't use the Internet while out caching. Getting it from the cache site to the internet access device of your choice is your problem. May I suggest that GPS units probably have some note saving functionality for waypoints? Write it on your lover's thigh? Call a mate with a pilots licence to skywrite it? Except you're talking about putting them in caches WITH log books. The carbohydrates would still be there. That is one situation where you could consider leaving the logbook out altogether. Would this dongle fit in nano and micro caches? I assume almost definately for micro's and maybe for nano's. Don't know, I don't build them. And its still going to look suss when many different logs turn up from the same 5 minute window months and years down the track. To impliment it properly GS would have to integrate it into the GC.com system. Big changes I know but also business oppourtunities for them.

Ah, that's the part I was missing. For some reason, I thought each geocacher would need to carry one of these devices. Instead, each "special" cache would need one of these devices. And of course, when this electronic device stops working, the cache could no longer be logged. Unless we had a backup system. Maybe we could put a paper log in the "special" cache, and when the electronic device is no longer working, finders could just sign the paper log. Yes, yes it could fail, so could a pen, or a pencil or the o ring on a cache container or the power or the bus company or the dog, the dog failed to bring me my beer. The oven could fail and I miss out on tea, the sun! The sun is going to fail one day. Options for if a CO feels that paper isn't the best in a given situation rather than forcing anything on anyone.

I've thought about this some more, and I'm still confused. When I log a cache online, I don't enter a time. The timestamp comes from my field notes, or it comes from whatever the default time is when I enter a date in the "Post a New Log" form. Where does the unique code from this electronic "one time pad" come in? And why couldn't I just sit at home, entering these codes from the comfort of my living room? Obviously the log submission for would need to be changed to allow the time that you found the cache to be entered. The code comes from the dongle when a button is pressed but the code is different based upon the time and date when the button is pressed. I'm not an electronics wiz but I believe it uses some sort of algorithm to work it out. When a cache is submitted using one of these devices the serial number of that dongle would need to be entered so that Groundspeak's system knows which one is in the cache and how to handle it. When logging the find, if the code entered does not match the one that should have been displayed at the particular time on the date that it is claimed the cache was found then the system rejects the log submission. You cannot sit at Home entering codes as each code is only good for say five minutes before the required code to log the cache changes and at any given time the codes are different across different dongles. Think of it as a random number except that Groundspeak's system knows what that number is supposed to be at that time. The major obstacle to this idea is the Groundspeak time system. It would need to allow users to set a local time in their preferences because I, like presumably most of the rest of the world, couldn't give a stuff what time it is in Seattle and doing the conversion from local to Seattle time is likely to introduce errors and invalidate the log attempt. You know I just read the thread title properly and saw that the OP is talking about micros and he's right, an alternative to paper in micros would be useful. As paper is handled the fibres become looser and the sheet becomes fat and folds are no longer as sharp as they once were. This leads to one of the biggest complaints about micros, the log gets put in and can't be extracted again. This seems to be one of the biggest complaints people have with micro sized caches besides simply disliking them. Another use for you. Wet caches. Small electronic devices like this are surprisingly easy to water proof when they never need to be opened. Some caches get wet because they are designed badly but some don't stand a chance from the start. I found one a few months ago like that. They had used a good sistema container but the environment it was in was its downfall. Even the best container needs to be opened the access the cache contents and as soon as you do the inside of the container becomes a part of the system outside the container and the system as a whole will find an equilibrium for the moisture content of the air. When the loud is closed again the air inside will still have that same moisture content until it is opened again. If it sits for long enough it is impossible to stop the paper log from getting soggy. Also by removing the major source of readily metabolized carbohydrates you'll probably find less mould in caches as well. Third possible use: Remote area caches like in the south west of Tasmania or at a fuel dump along the Canning Stock Route. You place the cache and the maintenance place is to use report of maintenance needed as an excuse to head back out. Inside you place a log book and a dongle. This is probably the sort of cache you want to keep an eye on if you are worried about fake logs. Report of full log comes in and you put a note on the cache page saying you're onto it. Except that by the time you find mates to go with you, all book holidays, organise gear and make the ten day walk/drive 3 months could easily pass. If in that time someone does pass and finds the cache but can't sign because the log is full they could get their online log deleted if you run a policy of deleting what you can't verify. With the dongle in place they may not be able to sign the log but with the code the system does the verification for you and they keep their well earned find.

So how is this an improvement over the low-tech solution of a physical log and a pen/pencil? What is the problem that this electronic "one time pad" is trying to solve? It's to solve the "problem" that we must eliminate low-tech wherever we find it. As I say just an idea for the issues raised against the op's suggestion, I'm personally Fine with pen and paper but do find it amazing that for a hobby that relies on satellites telling computers where on earth we are that every time a topic like this comes up the overwhelming result is a loud cry of "keep it low tech"

So how is this an improvement over the low-tech solution of a physical log and a pen/pencil? What is the problem that this electronic "one time pad" is trying to solve? Never said it was an improvement on pen and paper however the issue that has been raised with the OP's code idea is that codes could just be collected on the net and used to make false logs. If this sort of device is used you do away with collecting codes Because the code it's different each time it's used.

The only problem I see with that is hard to decode mystery caches that could be nearby and people woule use a "check submission form" as a hack to find those difficult puzzle caches. Example: Someone uses it and discovers a Diff 4.5 unknown puzzle cache is 245 feet to the Northwest, thus giving away a location. The current system isn't perfect but it's good enough. Wouldn't need to give bearings and distances, just and yes this spot is clear or no it's not.

Thinking outside the box a little that would solve the "code ending up on the internet" problem and also the "they're getting so small it's bloody stupid" problem. Some banks distribute a small dongle for use when banking on the internet, GS could sell something similar that produces a unique code based on the time that the cache is found. Think of it as an electronic "one time pad". So if you go to log your find on the website or the app and the code you input does not match the time you select that you found the cache then the result is no smilie.