cachew nut

quote:Originally posted by Zuckerruebensirup:But in my opinion, our first duty is to the CURRENT cachers and supporters of the site, not to the "potential" ones. Bingo. It's not like there is a shortage of players. This game is growing extremely fast. Who knows? Maybe someday they'll be turning people away.

quote:Originally posted by BruceS: How many people changed from using MapBlast maps to MapQuest maps when MapBlast started requiring registration? My guess it that most people using Geocaching.com made the switch. Why??? Because they did not want to register with MapBlast. Do you have data to support this or is this just a guess?

quote:Originally posted by BassoonPilot: You're kidding, right? One can't reach ten finds if they don't stick around for that first find. What data have you collected that shows new users not sticking around for that first find? Can you post the contents of your spreadsheet here?

You've missed the point. I was talking about email harvesters on usenet, not here. When I meant another site, I meant one that would encourage trashing your caches, hence the name geotrashing.

quote:Originally posted by Rusty: Meaning that I did keep and open mind and I changed it Hope this one works better

quote:Originally posted by Rusty: Meaning that I did keep and open mind and I changed it Hope this one works better

quote:Originally posted by BassoonPilot: It's self-evident. Each person "scared off" is a potential cache placer lost. Not really since most caches are usually placed after the user found about 10 already. I'd say the average time before a new user places a cache is about a month. Frankly, there are lots of cachers who never place a cache, maybe they are "scared off" by the threat of having it plundered.

quote:Originally posted by BassoonPilot: I am perfectly content with the game as it is. Things change. Ever have your email address harvested by a bot on usenet so that you can receive tons of spam in your mailbox? If not, that's good since you are probably posting anonymously. How hard do you think it would be for someone to start a site called geotrashing.com and harvest all of your waypoints? Think anyone would want to play? After all, if they are not protected they must be fair game.

quote:Originally posted by BassoonPilot: I think the present system works about as well as any system could. You think, therefore you are. The present system is broken and needs to be fixed. It could work better, it's just a matter of doing something about it. You should strive for perfection even if it is never attained. I hope your outlook on other things in life isn't to just settle for what you have now.

Now for an opposing viewpoint. I voted yes, I'd rather not have "members only" caches as the only option. I think if the site went "members only" then a lot of people might be driven away from this sport. By voting yes, geocaching can stay free, and it may encourage more participation rather than less. It may also prevent the plundering of caches. I think this is a great idea. If you think about it, it really won't affect the way you do things now anyway. I would read the discussion on this subject before voting. quote:Just to quote Rusty, the guy who voted no: I think Member Only Caches sound elitist, that is my opinion as of now. I will keep an open mind and continue following and commenting on the discusions. http://opentopic.Groundspeak.com/0/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1750973553&f=3000917383&m=3890934993&r=2350913004#2350913004 [This message was edited by cachew nut on May 30, 2002 at 08:14 AM.] [This message was edited by cachew nut on May 30, 2002 at 08:15 AM.] [This message was edited by cachew nut on May 30, 2002 at 08:16 AM.]

Now for an opposing viewpoint. I voted yes, I'd rather not have "members only" caches as the only option. I think if the site went "members only" then a lot of people might be driven away from this sport. By voting yes, geocaching can stay free, and it may encourage more participation rather than less. It may also prevent the plundering of caches. I think this is a great idea. If you think about it, it really won't affect the way you do things now anyway. I would read the discussion on this subject before voting. quote:Just to quote Rusty, the guy who voted no: I think Member Only Caches sound elitist, that is my opinion as of now. I will keep an open mind and continue following and commenting on the discusions. http://opentopic.Groundspeak.com/0/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1750973553&f=3000917383&m=3890934993&r=2350913004#2350913004 [This message was edited by cachew nut on May 30, 2002 at 08:14 AM.] [This message was edited by cachew nut on May 30, 2002 at 08:15 AM.] [This message was edited by cachew nut on May 30, 2002 at 08:16 AM.]

quote:Originally posted by Team Dragon: Many areas need more caches, not less. Exactly, by doing something to prevent plundered caches there will be more, not less. I don't believe that people won't register. If geocaching interests them they will most likely visit the site. They will type in their zipcode and see what's available. They will click the cache page, see the description, they will see the map, and at that point if they want to try to search for it, they will login. If they don't register then they probably didn't really want to play anyway. It's kind of like an Ebay account, you can see the auctions but if you want to bid, you register. I dare anyone to tell me Ebay is going to go away because people aren't registering.

quote:Originally posted by BruceS: I think requiring a person to log in to see coordinates may have a negative impact on new people that may just want to "try out" geocaching. Some people are not going to register for something they do not know much about just to play for the first time no matter how easy it is to register. Those whose intent is plundering will not hesitate to do so. Those intent on "trying it out" will already have made an equipment investment and will not hesitate to register where it requires no investment except for information. They can remain anonymous for all practical purposes. Only the ones with something to hide will not register.

quote:Originally posted by ClayJar: What has been proposed here is the universal abridgement of the ability of the anonymous public to participate in geocaching using Geocaching.com. Unless your first name is Clay and your last name is Jar, how is your ability to participate anonymously abridged?

quote:Originally posted by ClayJar: _Making a change to Geocaching.com _cannot_ be based solely on the fact that it may prevent some caches from being plundered. Ok, then try this for size. We are living in a state of heightened awareness, code yellow. Some vandal starts out pilfering a few caches but soon gets bored and wants to cause some damage to humans instead of to just caches. We live in different times then when we were kids. Sooner or later it's bound to happen. Surely I'm not the only one who ever considered that something bad could happen. Now, let's pretend something bad does happen, I'm sure you can figure out what bad is, if you can't then let me know and I'll come up with some scenarios. Ok something bad happens. There's a lawsuit against the owner of geocaching.com The judge says something like: Do you realize that by your own admission that it might keep some of the riff-raff out, you were capable of possibly preventing a tragedy and by your inaction to do so makes you as guilty as if you had done it yourself? Naturally, a good lawyer should be able to exonerate his client, but after all of the bad press, and perhaps a 60 minutes interview with the parents of a wounded child who was just enjoying the sport, all of the positive aspects of the sport will pale in comparison. There are parks and forest preserves that currently do not allow geocaches, and any attempt to persuade them to do otherwise will fall upon deaf ears. Not to mention the investigation and no record of the users of this site, it will probably get shut down for aiding terrorists. Yeah, I guess I shouldn't be so worried about my plundered caches. And just because you feel unaffected because none of your caches have been plundered, I assume you like to hunt them as well as placing them. I really can't see what your complaint would be about logging in, besides the time it takes to type in your name and password. If that's a hassle then you can just click the remember me button (requires cookies) and you would not notice any difference at all.

Before I get accused of complaining without a membership card, I've just subscribed with my charter membership. However, while I've paid my dues, I'm hesitant to be the first in my area to start using member only caches. Maybe now as a paying member (who knows the secret sign ), my comments may carry more weight. I'll have to see what privileges membership brings.

Before I get accused of complaining without a membership card, I've just subscribed with my charter membership. However, while I've paid my dues, I'm hesitant to be the first in my area to start using member only caches. Maybe now as a paying member (who knows the secret sign ), my comments may carry more weight. I'll have to see what privileges membership brings.

quote:Originally posted by OUTSID4EVR: I initially felt strongly that coordinates should only be visible after an account is established. Now I'm not so sure that would matter. Here's my reasoning... It seems that the caches that get plundered are generally easy to get to, and easy to find once you are at the site. The people that plunder the cache found it because it is obvious and uncovered, not by taking their GPS and searching for it. There are way too many caches that are just thrown in a stump next to a popular trail. I feel we need to educate people to put some time into their cache by selecting a site that reduces the likelihood of someone stumbling across it. A cache that requires a reasonable hike (foot access only) and is hidden from view is less likely to be plundered. I suppose there are some geocachers who may feel the need to ruin it for others by plundering or taking caches, but the vast majority of missing caches don't disappear because the person is using a GPS. While one of my plundered caches was relatively easy to get to, it was not in a place where someone would stumble upon it. My other stolen cache was definately a target because you had to wade through 300 yards of knee deep water to get to it. [This message was edited by cachew nut on May 29, 2002 at 12:41 PM.]

quote:Originally posted by RAD Dad:I mean really, if it only reduced plundered caches by 1/3 wouldn't that be worth it? quote:Absolutely, it would indeed be worth it. I am not convinced at all it would reduce plunders by even 1%. You are making an assumption, and the rest of us are making a different assumption. By your values, it is worth it, but by ours, it is not. If you can find a way to justify your assumption, minds will change, but the burden of proof is on you. (Why? Inertia. "If it ain't broke..." and all.) Actually you are assuming it won't reduce plunders and you can't prove it. Results are the way to prove it. IT IS BROKE. If it is broke, then it needs fixing. IT IS BROKE, er actually IT IS BROKEN. IT IS BROKEN AND IT NEEDS FIXING.

I don't really quite understand how logging in would abridge any of abilities to geocache. You log in to get to the discussion forum and that isn't so difficult. Once logged in you would be able to do everything you do now. It was only a suggestion, however I personally have decided not to place any more caches as long as it's so easy for an outsider to get the coordinates. That will be my solution to my problem. As far as members only caches go, while I'm not opposed to giving something back to the game, what's to stop a member from plundering a cache as well? [This message was edited by cachew nut on June 05, 2002 at 09:44 AM.]

It might not work well, but it may be better than nothing. Any schmoe can mess with the cache right now. It may even prevent you from any liabilities if something stupid should ever happen. Throw away hotmail accounts could still be traced to someone.

I'd like to see the coordinates hidden until you login to the site. I've had a couple of my caches plundered, and it's possible it was done by someone who isn't the typical geocacher. Having to login to see the coordinates my make these trolls feel like a part of the game and the vandalism may stop. Besides, why let some non-participator see where your cache is? If I'm going to have my cache plundered, it may as well be by someone who has logged in. I understand about "member only" caches, this would be a little different.