sequens vitae mortem

Oh my. The Westboro Baptist Church, China's treatment of Tibet, the KKK, Islamic Terrorists... there's insanity and abuse of religion everywhere. Just the same as it ever was. In Christian terms, it's called evil and nothing in this world is exempt from it. Some Churches are misguided. Some people are misguided. So some stupid things are said and done to get people to convert to whatever. It's unlikely that the people who drop a pamphlet in a cache are going to protest soldier funerals. I just know that pointing fingers is pointless because evil and good are everywhere. The trick is being able to discern between the two. - Elle I deeply agree with what you are saying. We had the Sago Mine Disaster very close to hear a few years ago, and the Westboro Baptist Church showed up at the memorial service with big bright green signs that said things like "God hates fags" and all that. It was awful.

Uhh hello... If I am not mistaken, recently some practicing religious people have been known to suggest that anyone that does not follow their religion, is an infidel that should be killed. It would seem that in the heat of the moment you may have lost touch with reality. In recent history I have not heard of Christians saying anything close to that. Is telling someone that they are going to burn in hell for all eternity just because they aren't going to follow their ways not condemning someone? As for recent history . . . History has a way of repeating itself over and over. Listen to the war propaganda. If I tell you that you will go to jail for all eternity if you murder someone, I am trying to tell you what I believe is going to happen. The Pope is not the one that pulls the switch that sends someone to hell. He is trying to convey what he believes will happen. That is not the same as you suggest. Exactly, it's what they believe will happen. But, why would you tell me I'm going to jail forever for murder unless I was talking about committing homicide? Unless we were in an in-depth talk about the criminal justice system? Would you go door-to-door trying to solicit the fact that if a person commits murder, they will go to jail the rest of their lives? Would you hold a rally to get people excited about going to jail or staying out of jail whether or not they ever plan on or ever think of murdering people? My problem lays with the Christians who stand on street corners handing out fliers and telling people the only way they can be saved is by believing in Jesus Christ. Everything will turn out okay if they only believe and put their faith in the holy trinity that everything will be fine. I have no problem with people who believe and express their beliefs, but I have a problem with people who force them on people who really don't care to hear them! I have a problem with people going around trying to bother people into listening. Why don't we just hold open conferences, and people who want to listen and those whose friends coerced them into going with them can go. We don't go around telling people "It will all be okay if you just don't commit murder," so why is it okay for them to go around telling people it's okay if they only believe in Jesus? I have no idea what you are trying to say here. We can't confuse what? They use it as a form of government so they can cut peoples heads off because they practice a different religion and you excuse it? But Christianity says something bad will happen to you in the afterlife and they are condemned? The government in these areas who kill people who don't believe is a government that lives for the religion. If one people goes against the norm, it is similar to what a revolutionary is. If they go on doing their own thing, they have a chance to inform other people about what is going on and their beliefs. They use religion as an excuse to execute people because they don't want anyone going against them. These are not governments with democracies and free speech and all the wonderful privileges we get here. It's not an excuse, they just use religion as a means of government. Religion = Government, Government = religion in these areas. However, any religion can be used and manipulated to fit any government's agenda. I would really like to have an opportunity to read a pre-King James bible, but I haven't been able to find one . . . Maybe if I could get into the Vatican City archives . . .

Uhh hello... If I am not mistaken, recently some practicing religious people have been known to suggest that anyone that does not follow their religion, is an infidel that should be killed. It would seem that in the heat of the moment you may have lost touch with reality. In recent history I have not heard of Christians saying anything close to that. Is telling someone that they are going to burn in hell for all eternity just because they aren't going to follow their ways not condemning someone? As for recent history . . . History has a way of repeating itself over and over. Listen to the war propaganda. As I said, Christianity is one of the few religions that openly condemns people, and we can't confuse that condemnation with other religions that use religion as the only means of government in the same breath, which is why they will kill someone who doesn't go along with the main belief.

I am a Christian. That affects how I comport myself. Period. I do not leave tracts in caches nor try to influence others with my beliefs. However, if I find a tract of any sort in a cache I will likely read it as I enjoy learning about everything. This is fine, and if I found one, I would naturally leave it alone just like a lot of others are saying they would do, but what if you found a pentacle, some tarot cards, and some runes? Would you leave them alone? who advocated for more rules? apparently you didn't actually read the whole thread. religious recruitment pamphlets are rude. I wasn't asking just you, I've seen where other people have wrote it's rude, I wanted a more in depth opinion.

Keep in mind that, in other words, what you are saying is that the church points to all other views on religion and says they are not right. That is the closed mindedness you mention. You point to the churches view on religion and say it's not right. Maybe you leave more wiggle room than the church does, but since it can't be proven, maybe the church is right. Maybe you are right. Allow them the right to believe what they want, even if they think you are going to burn in hell. If you are going to be truly open minded, you need to accept that the church could be right. They could be right, I never said they couldn't be right. But people, "Charismatic Christians," as someone else put it, are ALWAYS telling it. They are always preaching it to anyone who will listen, whether or not they want to. They can't step out of themselves and look at it another way even for a few minutes, at least not without a rebuttal. Christianity is virtually one of the few religions that openly condemns people of other beliefs if not the ONLY religion that does. What I am saying is what they do to people of other religions is not right, not that they aren't right. This is not the open-mindedness that their prophet, and basis for their religion: Jesus Christ supposedly hoped for. There is not unconditional acceptance among all Christians, and we all know it. If on the outside, the church welcomes you with opened arms, it should accept you no matter what, even if you're only their to observe and not worship. Instead, you go in there, and they tell stories about a heretic they saw the other day and relate that to thousand-century-old tales that also have not proved to be true. Even in our war propaganda, our enemies are "enemies of god." Come on, folks, haven't we used the basis of Christianity to start enough wars and kill enough people? It's time for a move forward. I have many good friends who strongly believe in Christianity, and they all accept me unconditionally. I love them so very much for that, and I support anything they do religiously. However, there are Christians who won't hear tell of what I believe in unless I am confessing, getting baptized, or asking Jesus into my heart to save me.

I wish I wouldn't have sat here and read through this discussion. As soon as I saw it, I thought "Ack, a 'Religious Debate Thread.'" However, I read through it, enough that I felt the need to post. I generally try to stay out of all religious discussions because I feel I am mixed about how I few things to other people. First and foremost, I have practiced Wicca since I was about 15. I started to study different beliefs to see which would fit me best because I feel everyone needs some faith, whether or not it's in some type of deity or in themselves. Most every major religious faith believes in an afterlife of some sort. Even the religions who believe you reincarnate believe you eventually reach "heaven." They believe that you reincarnate to your next life based on how you live this life. If you live your life in a good way (whatever way that may be), you will reincarnate to a better life (maybe one where you are richer, etc.). If you live your life in a bad way, you reincarnate to a worse off life. When I speak with Christians on matter of religion, I always ask, "Why is there one straight and narrow path to heaven?" In my eyes, there is never a clear answer. I am not posting this to attack any Christians, but only to share my ideas on religion. It's true everyone has their own views. People generally fear any religion that is different to them. A lot of people have come to fear those who practice Islam since 9/11 just because they associate that with the Middle East and terrorists, even though it is only the religion practiced by a small few of people who are actually terrorists. Since forever ago, people have been taught to fear "witches" and pagan beliefs and incantations and the supernatural. Unfortunately for Christians, the Inquisition was started by the church. It has been going on for centuries upon centuries, but it peaked in the 17th century when the people who ran the church (which, in that day, were the only "intellectuals" of the area) developed a fear of bad deeds, and they blamed these bad deeds on witchcraft. After that, came the burning times where thousands upon thousands of people were executed for witchcraft. In those times, people lived off the land and their farms, therefore a lot of people felt they needed to worship and thank gods for their harvests, and a lot of these people were killed. This is where the church began getting it's reputation for being so intolerant. This, and their missionary trips to convert third world countries, and we cannot forget their attempts to convert the Native Americans when they first discovered the new world. Their is also the Salem witch trials to consider. All of these things were started by the church. I have to say that almost any Christian I have ever tried to have a conversation about religion with have gotten very defensive and tried to make me feel bad for believing the way I do. One acquaintance of mine went into my house with a previously open-minded and supportive friend and gathered all my books and symbols that represented my pagan beliefs and burned them in my yard. Needless to say, the acquaintance and the friend were forgotten about forever. The problem with the church is that it teaches closed-mindedness that that there is only one straight and narrow path, and if you stray you will burn in hell. It just isn't completely right, as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately, the church puts itself out there to help the world, but they also hurt the world in their close-minded teachings. I realize this does not apply to all Christians, and I'm not saying it does. I believe Jesus existed, and I believe that he truly was open-minded to all people with unwavering faith in himself and the beliefs he was trying to teach. However, I think it was a bit of a stretch for him to say he was the son of god, and I don't think in his teachings, he ever said it. I think those were stories told around to hype him up to something bigger than he actually was. He may have held some of the qualities of Jim Jones because he was somehow able to get a huge sect of people to believe in him and follow him to who knows what ends. In those days, it wasn't practical for a huge group of people to pack up and move to some desert oasis because their was no way to get in the necessary living and building supplies. There was also no way to commit mass suicide. All in all, I am fine with Christians in general as long as they leave me alone, however, I have put Wiccan related items into caches and the very next visitor to those caches almost always throws a fit about it and removes it for whatever reason. So, I have stopped putting those items into caches, though they in no way advertised the religion, more often than not, they were actually symbols that could have meant any variety of things. I feel all religious orientation should be banned from geocacaching except those of signature items and geocoins because, like others have said, they say something about the cacher in particular. We do not need recruitment items. Let's leave it to the billboards, fliers, newspapers, Internet, and television. I would like to know what religious Christians who do not leave religious pamphlets behind think of religious recruitment pamphlets?

As I scroll through the forums, I realize that most of them are about something about caching that makes someone unhappy. It seems a lot of us are looking to cause controversy in the forums for no real good reason. We all have to get very critical about other people (who are also human) and what they say. We even judge them on their own opinions of this very "open-minded" game. With that said, I want to start a thread where people post only things about caching that makes them happy! The things they like. No matter what anyone else says, no one is allowed to criticize them. If this starts happening, I'm going to ask that the thread be closed because I want it to be a "happy-times" thread. Each person should list two or three things about caching that makes them happy or that they like. It can be ANYTHING under the sun! I'll start: I like caching because I enjoy the sense of accomplishment I get from finding every single cache I look for. I don't care if it's an ammo can which is a 2 mile hike up a steep hill or a micro under a lamp post at Wal-Mart. I get very excited about finding a cache, no matter the size or locations. And, I don't do it for the numbers. I enjoy the hunt and the "kill." I enjoy knowing something is located somewhere that only other cachers and maybe a few property owners and managers know about. (In general, I get excited about caching and caches and never going to the same place twice . . . Unless I get a DNF!) Now, those of you who have good things to say: ADD-ON!

I have been following this thread for a while, and I have had really no opinion either way. At least, not until this came up. It may be a little off-topic, but I have to say that over saturation is not a sweet term if it's doing damage to the environment. (This has already been discussed in previous posts in this particular thread, so I do not want to be berated with comments about how he's talked to the land management officials in the area.) I know gas prices are high, believe me, I'm hurting from them, too. However, we also have to worry about our footprint on certain ecological areas. We can't go through and place lots of close-by caches in one area and expect it not to impact it. I know different types of environmental areas are impacted differently as well. The impact of foot traffic of a cache placed in woodlands with lots of replenishing rainfall is different from one placed in a tundra or desert setting. If lots of people stomp around in the area of an animal that returns there to breed every spring, chances are, they won't breed or even return there. Maybe they won't relocate themselves. Maybe their populations will be hurt because of this. We also may be scaring off certain species of animals that hold a certain niche in a particular area, and that would offset the balance of the entire area. I know not everyone is aware of what animals do inhabit or return to a specific area when they consider placing a cache. Again, I know in this case, the OP did talk to local land and wilderness officials who suggested where he place the caches to provide minimal. I also know that this doesn't apply to all areas: i.e. true urban cache placement. A little saturation is okay in some areas, but it isn't okay in all of them.

aHA! Thank you, that is just what I was looking for, lol. I am blind! Now I can do away with all my pocket queries until I really need them. *bows down*

I also bring my dog along on every single geocaching mission within reason. They definitely are wonderful for providing cover. However, my dog is a Boston Terrier, and she is adorable and loves people! Consequently, people love that little smushed-up face, so sometimes I have to deal with muggles who want to pet and love her first. She still creates a wonderful aversion!

I agree with you. It is a legitimate personal choice because I too would be more apt to visit a park that had caches in it as opposed to one that had none. I understand why some people would be upset, but I kind of feel some of us are taking this too far. I know I have never found an Off Your Rocker cache, and I know I haven't hidden any caches yet, but I don't think I would act this way if one of my caches got refused. I would simply find another place. I neither love nor hate micros. I am not all about the numbers, but I do get excited about caching. I get excited about finding any and all caches, no matter whether they are a two mile hike up steep hills or under a lamp post skirt. This may have something to do with my cache density, I don't know. I like the hunt, and I get excited about seeing a capsule of any size holding anything whether or not it is a log or geocoins or travel bugs or trinkets hidden somewhere. I get excited about seeing things I might not have known about had I not taken up geocaching. I realize Cracker Barrel was a cool company because they allowed the hides on their porch, but let's remember the excitement of the hunt! We can find the caches that are already there, and find them somewhere else. We can even hide them somewhere else. However, I hope no one who really likes eating at Cracker Barrel stopped eating there just because they changed their minds. As stated in my previous post, it's like being angry at a local landowner who doesn't want you placing caches on his property, though he was really neat to be around before this. I'm stopping now, because I feel like everyone else: This is beating the dead horse, and I like horses, and they need to be treated with the utmost respect, whether dead or alive.

Not so long ago, I was generating a new pocket query every day. I realized I do not need these new queries in my inbox everyday because I only open them every once in a while, since I have all my goals, finds and not finds set up in GSAK for a set area. So, I deleted a lot of my PQs, and now I'm not sure how to get the alert when there is a new cache in the area. It isn't about being first to find for me, I have found almost all the caches within a 25 mile radius, and I am running out of new ones to go to. Coincidentally, I have no problem traveling farther, but gas prices to travel farther take a big bite out of my budget, so it's nice to know when a new cache comes into the area. Maybe there just haven't been any new editions in this area recently, but I haven't gotten any alerts. So. . . What do I check to get alerted of a new cache, or is it an automatic thing once you become a premium member? I'm so confused! I'll take any advice at all. Thanks!

After night caching one night in an 24-hour available cache, a few friends and I were on the wrong road but relatively close to what would be a nice walking distance to the cache (except it was over a steep hill, and the cache rating didn't make since in my book). Anyway, we kept driving back and forth and stopping in these two wide spots about a mile and a half apart. Finally we picked a spot and stopped and got out. Immediately, a police cruiser pulled up to us and asked what was going on. We told him what we were doing, and he asked what we were looking for, and we said, "It's been placed by the remaining foundation of the old Mound City Glass Plant." He gave us directions to the right road and wished us good luck. It was very memorable. This day and age, as others have posted, people rarely pay attention to people with hand-held gadgets. It is common to see people with Ipods and cell phones in rural areas and parks every day. Texting is a hot thing that most people do now, so when I feel like I'm being watched too closely, I just look down at my GPS and fiddle with some of the buttons. To all but the very observant, it looks like you are texting on your cell phone. This also helps me zero in on the cache while it looks like I'm doing something else, and, when the right opportunity comes along, I make a grab for it whenever their back is turned. I have never had a muggle come up to me and ask what I was doing, but, if they did, I would tell them what I was doing and invite them to come along. I think this is an excellent way to promote and share this great outdoor hobby.

I just have one question, and it may have been asked before, but I've read both the old and new threads on the Off Your Rocker series, and I don't think this point has been raised yet . . . How would you (no one in particular) act if you wanted to place a cache at an interesting location on someone's private property, and they denied you the permission? Would you get angry? Would you stomp off and never talk to that person again? Another scenario, what if a landowner owns several pieces of property with good cache locations, and you ask him to put one up, and he says yes the first few times, but says no the last couple of times. When you ask him why, he just says "I don't want them there," which is what Cracker Barrel is saying in their nice, corporate-speak. Do you constantly hound him as to why he let you place the caches there before but suddenly changed his mind? Or, do you just realize that hounding him for reasons takes away your valuable time when you could be placing other caches in other locations or finding other caches? I know that Cracker Barrel once allowed caches to be placed on their property, and, for whatever reason, they changed their policy. However, their store locations are their private property, and they have a right to change their minds about whether or not they allow caches to be placed there. We wouldn't be so disappointed (or at least angry enough to stop talking to them) in our local landowners' decisions to change their minds, so why are we acting this way about Cracker Barrel?

I know there is rarely anyone wanting to separate with one of these, but I am looking to buy a geodog coin in any metal, so if anyone is willing to sell one, please send me an e-mail.

Clarksburg, WV 01 miles - 2 05 miles - 12 10 miles - 18 25 miles - 108 50 miles - 551 *sigh* None are mine because I haven't placed my first cache yet, but I am getting ready to!

Psst. [whispered]....books don't have feelings and all books are not created equally....[/whispered] I know books don't have feelings, and you may not feel all books are created equally, but that doesn't mean you need to rip up knowledge that someone else may value more than you. I may not want to read a book on the thermodynamics of pizza, but someone who is opening a pizza restaurant may find it very helpful if they are developing their own tastes. Destroying books is one of the worst things you can do in this culture.

It's been done quite a bit. Go for it. Some people have put rubber snakes on top of containers to surprise cachers. I don't see anything that you need to "warn" people about. We obviously geocache in different locations and therefore probably have different experiences. I offered my input based on the fact that if I came across a "REALISTIC" rattlesnake in my area I would shoot it and therefore destroy the cache. If I knew in advance that the cache had some fright element, it may avoid issues for the cache owner. Most species of rattlesnakes are not aggressive. They are VERY misunderstood! 95% of people who get bitten by rattlesnakes get bitten by trying to handle them. Almost all bites are on the hands and arms . . . The snakes are actually quite harmless. There is no need to shoot them, if given a chance, they would rather escape, but it is only when they are cornered that they strike. I have been to this cache, and my heart did feel like it was going to beat out of my chest because you almost need a flashlight to look down in the log. It got a good laugh out of my roommate and I. I have one other roommate to take there . . . Because he deserves it! On topic: I think you should do it! Cachers may be scared at first, but they will soon laugh about the cache. 89SC's hasn't been shot yet!

It might be for an RPG, I have seen metal ones but this might be a newer version, it looks like about the right length and diameter. It is for an RPG. I was just in a guns and ammo store a few days ago, and they had one of these babies on display. It would be a super cool cache container!

More scenery photos! Water or mountains? A gorgeous waterfall on the way to Top of WV Wanna go to the Can at Moats Falls? Beside Myself at Seneca Rocks Can't remember the name of the cave cache . . . Gazebo in the woods. Obezag!

I like the stepping stone idea. That would be really great, especially since I love doing grave rubbings! It would also solve the problem with being wasteful with paper. I know that you probably don't want to put a lot of time into constant maintenance of the cache, but I think the best idea would be to do about 50-100 laminated copies of the map, cut them all into several different pieces and just ask cachers to leave them in the last container, that way you continue to recycle the maps when you move them back to stage one instead of wasting more and more paper to keep them going.

Every time I use the Internet, I am ALWAYS searching for people who will sale me any one of these coins . . . I think about them A LOT . . . 1. I would LOVE to have a geodog geocoin for on my dog's collar . . . She goes caching with us everywhere, and it would be awesome to log her mileage! I think this coin is the one I want most of all . . . 2. I would also love to have the new quadrant coin, my boyfriend is really into navigation, but I missed the sale. 3. CSI (Cache Scene Investigation) coin because I love CSI! 4. The handcuffs geocoin (I think the name is Cache or Charge) because I am a criminal justice major. 5. Any night caching geocoin because I usually cache at night, and I love having a collection that symbolizes my caching style. Alas, I never have anything to trade because I miss most of the sales, and the coins I get I find through ebay or other cachers who are nice enough to give up a coin for me.

Something every cacher is familiar with . . . A curious-looking rock pile! We found it off this abandoned railroad

I missed the sale and wish I hadn't, but even more than that, I hope they make a copper version of this awesome coin so I could maybe get one then. I always miss coin sales on coins I really like, and it describes my boyfriend perfectly. It would be a great gift for him, even in copper.

I carry: Identification Snacks Flashlight Batteries for flashlight Swag GPS Charger for GPS Logbook Pens/pencils Ipod (paperless caching) Digital camera Cell phone Bug repellent Swiss army knife Water bottles that have been frozen in the freezer Extra Socks Emergency rain ponchos Extra boots (I usually leave them in the car - I always end up stepping in a swamp up to my knees and they get wet even if they are waterproof! I also leave extra clothes in the car) First Aid Kit complete with liquid stitches Sunscreen Maps Collapsing water and food bowls for the geodog who always comes along! Dog crunchies Whenever I go hiking in deep woods, I mark the car and take a flare gun and flares in the backpack. In winter I add more layers of clothes, hand warmers, matches and fire-starting kit, and a thermal blanket.