Grifung

Here's a local, blatant challenge-helper: 0, Orange, Winter, Jello, Snail, Xena It has: -The number 0 -A colour -A season -A food -An animal -An "X" word There are several local Challenge caches where this cache could be used to fill in a tougher gap in the requirements. They really missed out on an opportunity by not rating it a 1/4.5, though. I call these "Attention Whore" caches When we placed that cache, it was a tongue in cheek idea. Mostly for the fun of it. It isn't even close to where most people like to cache so you would have to drive for quite a distance to track it down. We do love Challenge caches though and we have several of our own. We enjoy them because it gives some people a new way to play the same game. It's a different way to have fun.

I have to disagree politely with your statement about Challenge caches not being used as incentive. Every Challenge cache that I have looked at (I've not seen them all) is used as incentive in some way to do something. As an example, a Fizzy grid 81 Challenge is used to motivate people to fill in their Fizzy grid, the Baker's Dozen cache motivates people to cache a certain amount on certain days or a Holiday Challenge cache would be used to motivate people to cache on holidays. Why would there even be Challenge caches allowed if they were not there to motivate people? As an afterthought, is caching in general not used as an incentive to get people out to visit an area or a special place or to try something new? Should we disallow all challenges because there are people in our community who are never going to be able to complete the requirements and we don't want them to have bad feelings? Should we ban event caches because someone who suffers from agoraphobia can never attend? Additionally, I'm not judging people who, for whatever reason, don't produce caches. My initial comment about laziness was just put out there as an example of why someone may not produce a cache. There are many reasons why people don't have caches of their own and I don't have time to list them all but laziness would be only one of the many possibilities.

+1 I hide caches because I like hiding them, and bringing people to cool spots or on a nice hike or paddle. I don't need a "reward" for anything. We didn't want to put a Challenge Cache out there because people need to be rewarded. Anyone who does something because they expect a reward is using the wrong motivation in life in general. We feel that it is a way to motivate people for a better caching experience for everyone involved. The main point though is still that because some people (for whatever reason) do not publish a cache ever, we can't make a Challenge Cache that rewards the people that do put out great caches. It is meant to be a carrot, not a whip.

You have zero caches so how is your statement relevant?

This is a challenge cache that firstly, I would like to publish and secondly, I would like to qualify for. To qualify for it we would need to publish better caches and more of them. The Incredibles are an example of a caching team that makes great caches and earn plenty of favourite points doing so. Who wouldn't want to be more like that? It's motivation to try harder and be better. I wish all of my caches were a hit with everyone that finds them but I know that just won't happen. I would just like to be able to put out a cache that in some small way is a reward for those people that do. If rule 7 was changed then maybe we could. Reward those that put in the effort, don't hold others back while we try to make everyone else feel good about themselves. We can't all be the best at everything we do. (There can only be one Prime Minister or President at a time.)

If you don't think there are enough 'worthy' caches in town, how about hiding some yourself? We just sent in 5 more today with a sixth cache needing a new idea as the one we're talking about can't be published according to rule 7. We also haven't found all of your caches so I'm sure that more will be headed your way like most of our finds of your caches. I don't even have to look at your caches to know that you would qualify for a challenge like the one we are discussing.

He didn't say it was an "impossible to complete challenge cache". He said it was an "impossible to publish challenge cache". The point of the Challenge Cache that we would like to publish is to be able to reward cache producers for their efforts to make quality caches. I'm certainly aware that favourtie points are subjective. We have given out favs for new areas, great views, great containers and interesting puzzles. Still we have nearly 50 favs sitting unused because we haven't found caches that we thought were worthy. We don't want to make a challenge so difficult that most people could not hope to qualify but my point is that we should reward people who put in the effort to produce quality caches, make great puzzles or find places with incredible views or history. By stating that because some people don't publish caches at all (which is their choice and perogative), we are not able to reward people who work hard and want to make geocaching better.

I understand that not everyone puts out good caches but anyone that just puts out a cache and expects to get favourite points, should know that is not how it works. With any kind of experience, you would find caches that are worthy of appreciation and caches that are just there to be found. As for the archived caches, I am in favour of including them in your favourite points total but the other part of team Grifung is not and wants people to have to put in some effort to claim this impossible to publish challenge cache. As well, I counted 132 favourite points for your active caches. You deserve a big thank you for making great caches!

The challenge cache rules state: 7.Challenge caches may not require the publication of a new cache or waymark as a challenge criteria; challenge caches must be achievable by those who do not own caches or waymarks. I was hoping to publish a challenge cache that would reward people who make great caches. The challenge would have been to have 50 favourite points for active caches that you own at the time of signing. According to rule seven, "challenge caches must be achievable by those who do not own caches". To me, this seems like a rule that boils down to the lowest common denominator of laziness or lack of effort instead of rewarding people who want to be successful and make this pastime fun for everyone. Why should we not reward achievement if there is someone who doesn't try to achieve? In the same vane, at a local elementry school, we can't reward someone with a Citizenship, Achedemics, Sporstmanship or Leadership award now because we don't want the kids that don't ever try to achieve to feel bad about themselves. I'm not hoping that people will feel bad about themselves, but would rather try harder to make better caches. Why are we affraid to reward strong effort? What if nobody put out great caches? As a side point to this, are favourite points not a way to make bad cache producers feel bad about themselves for poor quality caches? Personally, I know that some of my caches are better than some of my other caches and I expect them to earn more favourite points. I don't feel bad that some of my caches have no favourite points at all.