FelixZ

Nope... everything stays the same with the actual coin. I just did understand my mistake in not asking other cachers in Berlin, when I started designing this coin. To maybe make up for my mistake and not to do the same mistake again, i will get input from other cachers for the next coins... and as far as I did understand it, they will be regional / geographical coins. Hope that makes it clear

Yes, it is the boundary of Berlin and of its 18 boroughs

OK, I got it. Because not everyone was asked, who would have liked to be asked, this coin and my way of releasing it is bad. I do understand that not everyone is happy about a coin being released without their input. But instead of crying out, they should have asked me if there still could be made a change because they have an idea for making the design perfekt. All and everyone stated that noone was asked... and that is simply wrong. Maybe you could say "the Berlin cachers" (whom ever that is) were not asked. I did already admit that I did not ask in a big forum, because my experience is, that everyone has different ideas of how it should be made, and finally you have nothing or a compromise. I did not want either. The drama started without anyone talking to me, but accusing me in varous things. There are 14 posts stating how very "unlawful" my behaviour was before I tried for the first time to explain my intensions. By now the design is already being printed and to be honest: This discussion is the kind which would never ever make me change my mind. Also since one version is already sold out, it would be unfair to the users that already ordered to change anything. So you say I do twist words. Then please explain to me what was ment by those other postings because I still understand them the same way. Even the explanation of Balla&Silly does not change my view to it. And to get right to it ... have a look at the posts: If you read this (and I posted always the text in its relating passages), then please tell if I really am that wrong? Where am I twisting words when I say that with these postings it is clear to me that these users think that I am not caching regularly or long enough to release this coin? The explanation of Balla&Silly reduced it to be not only because of my statistics but also because I did not post my plans in a forum asking "the Berlin cachers" for their OK. And even though they wrote "We have explained how we meant them and they have nothing to do with your conclusion above." I still understand them that way because of the passages marked red in the above quoting. So if Balla&Silly dont mind I would be happy if they would explain it to me in german via PM. Maybe there is some misunderstanding because of english not being the native tongue. But to get back to kealia: This is a very wise recommendation... for everyone who took part in this discussion. As I mentioned above when I looked at this discussion for the first time there were lots of interpretations about my intensions regarding this coin. No one had the will to ask me what my intensions really were but I was attacked from several sides. When I posted my explanation and my understanding of what was posted everyone was in a huff... no wonder: I was in a huff too, when I wrote it Perhaps we should all just calm down and the next coin dedicated to Berlin might get a better critics. Yours FelixZ @Balla&Silly What else than letting "words appear in another light to cry for sympathy" was it when you posted "We love these guys who turn their back on Groundspeak and geocaching.com to join another caching community but when it comes to TBs and coins this service and the geocachers here are suddenly good enough again for them." You dont know me or know how I came to geocaching. You dont know if I started at Groundspeak or in an other community... how can you know I didn't turn my back on the other communities and changed to Groundspeak? And do you know the reasons why there are long periods of time between groups of cache finds? Perhaps you should stop judging all books by their covers and being annoyed if you get out what you put in. (Yes, I do like idioms ) @pghlooking Your role in this discussion is totally unclear to me. First you ask everyone to stay calm until there is more input and when your questions are answered you dont care about the answers and start a personal campaign agains DRunners...

Hi! Seems to me that in this post of pghlooking we get to nails things down. The opinion of some users regarding this coin and their main problems with it are: A coin dedicated to the hometown of a cacher is a geographic and not a personal coin. As a geographical coin there would have been a precondition for the coin to have a minimum number of copies to be 1000 coins. This coin does not have this number of copies so it is "nothing more than a way to circumvent the prefix situation". Conclusion: That guy is cheating. That guy releasing the coin "never postet in the coin thread before" and did not earn his "street credit first". Or in the words of Balla&Silly: "he is not even a regular Berlin cacher". Finally it all comes back to one single point: Some users think I am not worth it to release this coin. What really hurts me is to find out that in this quite small community of geocachers there is such a group of pencil pushers. I never thought about the possibility of someone misinterpreting my will to honor my hometown in such a way. You really got me thinking...

Thanks a lot for this post. You hit the nail on its head. All I wanted to do is to design a coin dedicated to my hometown and it never came to my mind that anyone could make such a drama out of it. Yours FelixZ

I do not want to represent Berlin or to represent the geocachers scene in Berlin. All I do is to release a coin dedicated to Berlin. Thats it.

I cant help it... I just have a couple of questions about your postings: Nothing. There is no official Berlin coin excisting yet. But calling it the "1st Berlin Geocoin" instead of "1st FelixZ Geocoin" might sell better, it's probably just a question of business. I find it a bit "odd" to say the least. Calling it the 1st Berlin coin, while everybody knows it is the 2nd. And if it's a personal coin, why use the same design (Brandenburger Tor)? Or is this the 1st of yet another commercial series of coins? Will there be others? i.e. Berlin Gedachtniskirche, Berlin Alexanderplatz, Berlin Checkpoint Charlie, Berlin The Wall, Berlin Reichstag, Berlin Siegessaule, etc? Sorry, I'll pass on this one. Who knows the "Balla&Silly"-Coin, being the first Belin Geocoin. I have never heard of it in that way. What makes the "Balla&Silly"-Coin the first Berlin-Coin ? Balla&Silly being from Berlin The "Brandenburger Tor" in the background of the talisman for the male part of of the team Balla being somewhere in the picture on the front The text "Caching keeps showing us unusual places" The text on their Homepage, which says "We wanted a coin that is very personal but also interesting for others. We felt it should express one of our deepest thoughts about Geocaching and it should also show something typical of our home." The FRONT of the "Balla&Silly"-Coin showing a picture from Lanzarote (a canary island) I think (f) is the perfect reason for this coin being the first geocoin that is clearly dedicated to Berlin, don't you ?

I am lead to believe now that someonelse is selling your (serie of) coins (at least your name is on it) and making all the money and since you don't get a cent of it, it is not commercial? You get it. Commercial means "pertaining to business". So if something is made to make a business with it, it is commercial. Since I do not do so, it is not commercial, but personal. Of course the geocoinshop.de makes some money with it, but their business is to mint such coins, thats what they do for their living. If you take this as a prereqisite for a coin being commercial, nearly every coin is. Or do you know a lot of coins made out of nature materials that are at no charge and are free to get from their makers ? I dont. The rest is already said by your own post:

I do not have any readymade answers and all my asnwers tell more than is said is, that I am quite angry about jealous users, trying to discredit the coin, because they had the same idea. And whatever you might think: It will be a personal series of coins. So if you wanna pass: Do so... others will be happy to get them instead of you

Hi! Finally I have the opportunity to get into this discussion.... No, it does not. Well... this is easy to answer: NOTHING ! READ THE FULL TEXT ON THE COIN ! As you might have recognized it states: 1st Berlin Geocoin by FelixZ My name is in quite large letters on the coin. Where is the misunderstanding? It is MY first Berlin Coin. And as you guessed right, there will be more Berlin Geocoins by FelixZ. So this is my first and all will be personal coins. And since I do not earn a cent by these coins being sold, it is not commercial So once again: Yes, this is a personal coin. So why is this posted by DRunners? Because I asked him for help in how to post this. Well... it's a fact: Berlin is the capital of Germany. So, you are the "Berliners" ? Or who is ? Actually quite some geocachers from berlin were asked while working on this design. It was not on any discussion forums, because it is my personal coin. All were asked personally or by mail and since you have not the privilege of being on my list of friends, you were not asked. Easy, isnt it ? Finally by looking at the way this discussion is held, I have the feeling that especially "Bally and Silly" have quite some problems with not being the first to release a coin that is fully dedicated to this wonderful city. I cannot explain why they would otherwise make such a drama out of a coin. (Yes, I did read about their coin, looked at it and realized it is a coin dedicated to Bally and Silly.) If they would really love this city and not be just narcissistic, they wouldn't care who released a coin dedicated to Berlin and if in their eyes this guy is worth it. So stop being so egomaniac and to feel sorry for yourself. You can come up with a Coin dedicated to Berlin whenever you want to and ask whom ever you want to. And maybe if you make a thread asking the berlin geocachers about their ideas, you might even get some ideas from that unworthy single guy who is "not even a regular Berlin cacher". Yours FelixZ BTW: Just because my statistic on geocaching.com is not as admirable as "Balla and Silly"s, it does not mean that I am not a regular cacher... there are lots of other caching communities. Think about it.