HHD

I don't post in the forums much, but want to address this specific thought. You cannot have a singular standard for the management of disabled caches, and there is no good reason why finding a disabled one should not count. It is even possible that a listing is active when you pulled your data, or when you found it, but gets disabled before you log it. That shouldn't count? I just finished a periodic sweep of all disabled caches in NC and looked at 400+ listings. They are disabled for a wide variety of reasons-recent DNF's indicate it may be MIA, recent find logs indicate a maintenance need, location is undergoing construction/logging/development and is inaccessible, CO is in the armed forces and is currently deployed, CO has some health issues and cannot maintain right now, location is closed for season, and a few others. Each disabled listing needs to be viewed as an individual and not smothered with a blanket practice. I'll I meant was that if a cache was disabled that meant to me that the co was aware of the issue and there was at least some kind of communication on the listing as to what was going on and when they would fix.

As this topic is probably directed at me I figured I would log my two pennies. I would love to have had the experiences you had in Australia. Sounds like you had a great time. I love to find caches that bring me to beautiful places and unique vistas. I am lucky to have a large number of hides relatively close to me. Granted a large number of them are power trail-esk and pngs but I'm glad to have them. I'm not asking that every hide be in perfect condition. I'm not even asking that as soon as a nm log is made you drop what you are doing and run out to check on it. I am just saying that it is the cos responsibility to maintain the cache and that if they don't/aren't doing that then they shouldn't be allowed to hide more. If this wasn't directed at me then disregard.

Geocide? Something like that.

I know this isn't the right place. I'm testing the waters before I put forth my final option.

In practice at least in my area it has become an abdication of responsibilities. Only now that this issue has been raised with such gusto has the offending co been getting out and doing SOME maintaining. It is a start but I don't want this type of thing happening in other areas. If we can prevent a good theory but bad practice from getting a foothold elsewhere I call all the flack I have received totally worth it.

All opinions are welcome. If you can't listen to the other side then you will never get anything accomplished. Is this cache police...it could be viewed that way. If the system was automated though no cache police necessary. It isn't that hard to remove a nm flag...no harder than using a turn signal....well maybe that's a bad analogy. It isn't that hard to do, and if you can download cords into a Gpsr, use that Gpsr to navigate gz, then find a nano in a brush pile, sign a log, then log the find on the website I think they can figure it out. I don't advocate ignoring nm logs. But in the ones you mentioned above I would not have worried with visiting the location. A wet write in rain log is silly. A cache 23' off the ground (i assume tethered in a tree) swept away by high water? Seems like a waste of gas to me. Not saying I wouldn't check up on it in case the tree went missing just to make sure but I wouldn't sweat it. But I guess I'm still a little shy on why if this was able to ne automated it would be cache police? If it could be automated would that change your mind?

I used to work at a retail store that engraved items people brought in from home. This twenty something kid came in with a coin he wanted engraved with his name. I didn't realize what it was at the time but looking back it was a geocoin. He had his handle engraved on it and when he picked it up I couldn't resist asking what it was for. He told me about this game he played with a gps where people hid things all over the place most of the time right out in the open just camoed really well. I thought it sounded really cool...something that my brother in law would love to do as he majored in mapping he also was the only one I knew at the time with a gps(this was easily 5 years ago) I told him about it and he had heard of it before but had never gone. 4 years later I had never really forgotten about it but I still didn't have a gps and as a new parent I had little extra time. I got a job in sales and wouldn't you know it they used geocaching as a way to get to know your territory. We traveled all over the state and got new areas about every 6 weeks. Needless to say I didn't stay with that job long because I couldn't be away from my family all week but I got hooked on geocaching and learned I could use my EVO and an app. I was a phoner for a year and got over 600 with it. I just recently purchased a real Gpsr and I love it. I'm starting to get the family out caching now to. And my brother in law still hasn't gone out caching...yet.

Great ideas don't stop being great ideas because they might be hard to do...just need some time to work out the kinks.

I don't know what type of hide it was but if it could have blown away maybe try and add a fishing line lock to it so it is secured to whatever you hid it on.

Ahh, well I think I'm part robot, as I have a fake joint. As for blaming myself...I always blame myself, just check my dnfs logs.

I use a delorme pn40 I bought off eBay for 100 bucks. Does driving directions and off road to the cache. It also supports paperless caching. I used my smart phone first for a year and asked around about what others used. The pn40 was what most of the other cachers used so it syncs nicely with gz

Glad you found it. My gps has a SD card so I use that, but not sure if yours does.

I cache in Wisconsin. Winter is great until you get about 2 feet of snow...then the walk to a cache can be dicey. Most caches will be noted with the snowflake attribute if they can be found on winter. I love caching this time of year. It's not too hot, no bugs, and leaves don't obstruct the cache.

Looks like the co is not a very active cacher. Hasn't been online since July. It looks like a na log is in order. If you live close and want to try an adopt it make a note in the log.

Ps...I may be too new to understand where I view your signature line...checked your profile, last few hides, and this posting...saw nothing.

Warpath...hmm hadn't thought of it that way. But I am part native American and my grandparents fought in ww2. I love discussions. I'm off this weekend and am looking forward to a bright conversation. If you feel I'm being too angry I hope you will excuse my fire. I like most of us here really enjoy geocaching. I have found hours of joy from this game. I just feel that when a co tries to weasel out of doing the work we both agree is part of the game it needs to be addressed. I realized the concept of gcrm is good in theory but I think we can all agree theory is not practice. In practice here on my area gcrm is enabling lazy cos and allowing them to hide more hides then they can handle. I'm actually doing them a favor. Seeing as there is no eventual win for getting a million hides why not just settle for placing a reasonable amount of hides or if you must have a bunch, maintain the ones you have BEFORE you hide anymore.

I appreciate your feedback. 1) cache police...yeah can't fight that one. But if it is for the good of the community... 2) I bet you wouldn't forget to remove it if you couldn't place a cache. And a lot of people filter out nm caches so if you leave it up it only hurts your cache. 3) dumb nm logs...well we can't stop dumb people from doing dumb things but if you see the nm is a dumb nm then just remove it...like you do now.

Good questions. 1) as far as the disabled caches issue goes, I'm fine with disabled caches not counting. If a co disabled a cache I don't look for it and at least it means the count down begins for inactivity. I understand safety and construction issues. 2) the co removes the flag fraudulently with out doing the maintenance...ok this is a likely problem. We are an on your honor sport so if they just remove it to cheat the system they are cheating themselves and other cachers. So my hope is the other cachers would call shananigans when this happens and repost nm logs and if it is a habit the reviewer will be notified by someone I'm sure. 3)fraudulent logging nm to keep the co from placing more caches...well here is my hope. Again...honor sport blah blah blah, and by setting the bar at 5, that should be a pretty high number to weed out normal maintenance issues for most. Now if someone is being targeted by a cacher scorned they can take that up with a reviewer. However, if a co is doing the maintenance as required why would a cacher target them? And if that mean cacher has it in for the co there are much more annoying ways to get to someone. 4) automate it or give the reviewers more work. I think the last thing we need to do is give reviewers more work so it should be automated. If for some reason it can't be automated...I'd be amazed if that's the case, then there should be a check box on the honor system that you have less then 5 caches with nm flags. If you are found to be cheating the system cachers will find out and notify the reviewers who will have to keep a list of cheaters and double check that they don't have too many nm flags.

Well a disabled cache shouldn't count. If they disable the cache that starts the 3 month count down for archiving, and I won't be out looking for it.

Let's stop enabling lazy cos. If a co has 5 nm logs active on his/her caches they are not allowed to place any new caches until the maintaining has been completed. This is just a concept. I'm open to other options but I'm getting tired of cachers placing new caches while leaving their others ones to rot and asking the community to maintain them instead of doing it themselves. All comments welcome. I love ideas. Edit to include issue brought up so far: 1) as far as the disabled caches issue goes, I'm fine with disabled caches not counting. If a co disabled a cache I don't look for it and at least it means the count down begins for inactivity. I understand safety and construction issues. 2) the co removes the flag fraudulently with out doing the maintenance...ok this is a likely problem. We are an on your honor sport so if they just remove it to cheat the system they are cheating themselves and other cachers. So my hope is the other cachers would call shananigans when this happens and repost nm logs and if it is a habit the reviewer will be notified by someone I'm sure. 3)fraudulent logging nm to keep the co from placing more caches...well here is my hope. Again...honor sport blah blah blah, and by setting the bar at 5, that should be a pretty high number to weed out normal maintenance issues for most. Now if someone is being targeted by a cacher scorned they can take that up with a reviewer. However, if a co is doing the maintenance as required why would a cacher target them? And if that mean cacher has it in for the co there are much more annoying ways to get to someone. 4) automate it or give the reviewers more work. I think the last thing we need to do is give reviewers more work so it should be automated. If for some reason it can't be automated...I'd be amazed if that's the case, then there should be a check box on the honor system that you have less then 5 caches with nm flags. If you are found to be cheating the system cachers will find out and notify the reviewers who will have to keep a list of cheaters and double check that they don't have too many nm flags

That's a great idea geobain. Maybe I should start a thread for that. See this is why I post in the forums.

Last year I did...and now this concept is spreading. It was just localized to just north of me. Now there are a few les then 2 miles from my home. And a follow up...when was the last time ignoring a problem really fixed it?

So, how do you propose that TPTB go about banning the site? Not the site. I don't care about the site. I'm talking about the practice. If we bring it to the attention of the powers that be maybe they would put the practice to bed earlier rather then later.

You are 100% right. We need to stop enabling these cos. Maybe 10 waypoint system? I see my joke about the 12 steps was lost..probably because it was poorly executed... ???

You are 100% right. We need to stop enabling these cos. Maybe 12 waypoint system? Edit: to make my joke work better.