iconions
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On 2/23/2021 at 4:12 PM, Max and 99 said:
In case it wasn't clear, I will delete all virtual visits to my waymarks.
Funny how on my world teamwork cache players will often log a Found It on five of the countries' geocaches but not mine. I think word has gotten around that it's useless to try to get away with that on my world cache. I have been cursed out, I have been threatened, I have been told I will be banned from geocaching if I do not let those logs stand.
^
See the above response. Waymarks have specific rules to post visits. If you don't follow them, I will delete the visit until you come into compliance. Much like waymarks have specific rules to POST waymarks. If you don't follow them, I have to deny the waymark until you come into compliance.
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...and this is why virtual and locationless geocaches were taken away in the first place back in '05. Sheesh....
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9 hours ago, Alfouine said:
I am back and explain what happened, i wrote everything would be set within 30 days....
29 waymarks from Kentucky were approved in Signs of History category and it was a mistake, i declined all these waymarks with this message ;
"This waymark is not allowed in this category and now they are accepted in Kentucky Historical Marker, you can submit it in this category.In case of problem, contact me.
Thank you, Alfouine"Few waymarkers transfered their own waymarks and i transferred others. All of these waymarks have been approved in Kentucky Historical Markers
5 waymarks have been re-approved and grandfathered in Signs of History, because they are duplicated in both category (Bruces waymark was part of duplicated waymark)
Thank you for all officers who helped me
WAYMARKS DENIED : NONE
"Much Ado About Nothing" William Shakespeare
Except you screwed up stat pages and approval dates for everyone involved. You also set a really bad precedent, but other than that, hey, you're right nothing bad happened. You also <snip> a percentage of the Waymarking community, but again, that also doesn't matter to you either.
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8 hours ago, PISA-caching said:
Just because you keep repeating that, doesn't mean that it is going to happen.
Instead, I would really want to know what the founder of the Shop24 Machines category thinks. We will change the existing category very carefully, keeping the size and the product range of the vending machines and just remove the brand Shop24 from the title, because there are other, very similar vending machines. Instead of just containing 11 waymarks of machines, that are (partly?) not there anymore, the changed category will also contain a few other, new waymarks for similar vending machines. If I were the founder of the Shop24 Machines category, I would not see, why other vending machines of a similar size and product range should NOT be added to that category.
Interesting statement about wanting to hear from the founder - there is ONE active officer in the category and he posted his opinion in this thread and you IGNORED it!!!!! There are LOTS of founding members of categories not active - not unusual.
So much for your statement above. You all are just hell bent for leather on this changing of this category and it is obvious you absolutely don't care of the feelings of the current officer. Are there other categories you are planning to take over like this? Active ones maybe?
Question, was there any thought to adding "The Dam Trolls" as an officer to this new group, or were you all just going to stage a coup? The right thing to do, obviously, is to make him the owner, but obviously that isn't going to happen since you ignored his advice. This whole process stinks, especially as it appears you are kicking out a perfectly valid officer for no reason.
You all just need to start completely over with a new category. -
At what point are you all going to quit beating this dead horse and putting this up for a vote? I'm ready just to move on from this one way or the other.
I can't wait for the stream of other vending machine categories to flood peer review - it's going to be so exciting!-
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5 hours ago, sernikk said:
The Waymarking website is out-dated and is having problems with displaying Polish diacritics like: ę, ą, ś, ć, ź, ż, ń. It's just converting them to the flat version: e, a, s, c, z, z, n.
It has no problem though with others from the French or Czech language. I guess it's the matter of character encoding chosen.
So my question: is there any chance that this is going to be fixed?
Expanding the question a little bit, is there any chance that anything regarding to the websites layout, code and features is possible to be changed in the future? Is it worth it to report such things on this forum?
Being new here, I don't know iif the website is possible to be developed from the technical side.
Thanks
The Waymarking website is being held together by duct tape, bailing wire, and prayers to the Supreme Being (is that you wayfrog???? LOL
) Seriously, Waymarking isn't really on the Groundspeak radar, so we have to be happy with what we got. It doesn't hurt to report the issue, but unless it is a serious broke, don't expect a fix.
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5 hours ago, lumbricus said:
I created a group to bring it in a virtual peer review. "Shop24 Machines" Group Details (Waymarking.com) Let's vote to open it to 'Giant Vending Machines' with more than XXX items. @THE DAM TROLLS if the majority votes for the change Groundspeak will do the edit to the existing category.
Well, I just got contacted that another group is planning to try to start a marijuana vending machine category. Ahh, the preverbal can of worms we have opened up with this Shop24 category. Cool, we can have eleventy-seven thousand different categories of vending machines - can't wait!
Just for the record, Carvana has 40 car vending machines in the US currently. I'm interested to see exactly how this category will be written up. -
3 hours ago, Ariberna said:
I still do not see mundane passing it to 24-hour machines (with more than a hundred items) it is not worth the soda or condoms. The reason is that here there are not so many 24-hour zones and more than 100 items, and more mundane than places to recycle... I would also put the 24 hour stores. Good for the vote.
My respects to place for recycling that I have many published WMs.
You haven't been to many rest areas in the U.S. - many of them have walls or small buildings of vending machines that aren't sodas, available 24 hours a day. Even a single machine could have spots for over 100 different items.. Look at YouTube and the Japanese fascination with vending machines - these usually are in groups and sell all sorts of things - these are basically on every street corner in Tokyo and other large cities. This is the same with other cities in Asia. One has to research before making blanket statements.
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3 hours ago, lumbricus said:
The easiest way could be that we just add two or three cars (Wiener, nutmobile and Goldfish) which are still on the road and rename the category to "Kissmobile and Co. Sightings". In the category the four cars are explained. Visit logs make no sense. If another great car shows up in the future it's very easy to add a new one.
I would leave the Red Bull cars out - they are too plentiful.
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21 hours ago, elyob said:
I love how we all have different perspectives on Waymarking. I would vote for the status quo for this old category. No, I don't have the icon. I would like to cast a vote in a virtual peer review. What an interesting concept.
That would be my preferred method of operations, also, BUT, I would also rather the Waymarking community have a say to what gets changed on a complete category change such as this than three officers taking it upon themselves to do it without input from the rest of us in the peanut gallery.
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It's just interesting to see how others play the game. Me, it's what random luck and National Register Application sheets bring me. ...and the exploration of the random cemetery.
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7 hours ago, PISA-caching said:
You keep answering the question "Why should the status quo be changed?" for us. I can't answer that question for others, but for me: NO, the category doesn't need a change, because I want that icon. There's an icon for historical markers in every US state and lots of other icons that I won't ever have. So, that's (for me) not the reason. My reason is that the category wouldn't make it through peer review today, and my very first choice would be, what you absolutely do NOT want: Delete/archive the category. So, if a new category won't make it through peer review, what do we do with it? We change the category description until the category has a chance to do it. That's what we are trying with the "Shop24 Machines" category.
What about a new idea? What if we created a new category, include in the description, that this is not the description of a new category, but the changed description of the "Shop24 Machines" category. If we send this new category to peer review, every waymarker can either accept that the "Shop24 Machines" category is changed or say Nay to any change. If this category makes it through peer review, we delete it and change the "Shop24 Machines" category and if it fails, we keep it as it is. Maybe a silly idea and not doable, but an idea that I just had and wanted to share with you.
I just want to make sure you are stating to delete the "new" category, and not the "old" category. I would not be in favor of losing those old waymarks.
I would be in favor of putting any proposed changes to this category to a peer review vote. -
6 minutes ago, Ariberna said:
Why don't expand this category to 24 h shops and machines?
Because an update to the category like that would be too mundane and too common. It would violate one of the tenets of peer review.
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1 hour ago, ScroogieII said:
YUP - was just reviewing a WM in which the NRHP URL was used; I clicked on it and SURE ENOUGH, it worked!!! (Clicked on the URL in this line again, just to be DOUBLY SURE.)
On my first change of state at the site I got an ad, though, which might tell us something.
I've noticed a couple of changes, though, which you're bound to find for yourselves once there. Otherwise it's working well, nice and fast, no serious glitches found yet.
BTW, I'm one of the officers of the Contributing Buildings category and was about to make the changes Tom was wanting when I decided I should do my review queue first, which is when I discovered the GOOD NEWS!!!
BTW NB - There WILL BE a small change made to the Contributing Buildings category, hopefully right now, or at least sometime today.
I assume that the group's founder, JimmyEv, wrote the category requirements. In them he simply, gently, requested:
Please do not submit contributing buildings that have an individual listing on the U.S. National Register of Historic Places (NRHP).
Because submitters have not adhered, in the past, to his request, we are today explicitly stating that contributing buildings that have an individual listing on the U.S. National Register of Historic Places (NRHP) will no longer be approved, as of November 24, 2020. Further, any that should slip through the initial review process on or after November 24, 2020 and be later found to not adhere to this requirement will be reevaluated and declined.
Happy NRHP Waymarking!!!
Keith
Well, there is good news in 2020. Okay then, as of 8:15pm CST, we will go back to normal category description for the NHRP category.
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4 minutes ago, fi67 said:
As long as categories cannot be archived - especially in the grid - defunct categories should be avoided in my opinion. This category has a chance to be changed and reactivated, so let's do it. Your solution #1 is the worst case.
But we have a couple of categories on the same level, where it is hard or maybe impossible to reactivate them. We need a solution for them as well, but this is probably for another thread.
Here's the problem. you only have a very small, very vocal minority that is on the forums. When we change descriptions of categories, we don't change them so radically that the entire purpose of the category is destroyed. This shop24 category is an old, un-peer reviewed category created by a Groundspeak lackey way back in 2006 when Waymarking was truly in its infancy. We have different procedures now, (thank Goodness) and a peer review through the forums ain't one of them.
I know why you don't want a new category peer reviewed - you know it will fail. A new category will be either have to be really subjective "acceptable" waymarks defined by officers where the objective of the category will change by the whim of the officer reviewing OR will to have to have every vending machine in the world waymarked. There's no middle ground. Now, please, I understand the want to get a really cool icon, but there is no way to get around my previous statement.
#1, for you, is worst case because it leaves things status quo (as it should be). You give no other arguments other than defunct categories should be avoided. Why? Because that icon is no longer available? Unfortunately, this Shop24 category is EXACTLY why we have peer review in place now. I say leave it there as a testimony to why it is important to think during peer review and the creation of new categories.
2 hours ago, PISA-caching said:Well, fortunately we both live in countries that allow our opinion to be heard.
The difference between the "Shop24 Machines" category and the "Yellow Arrow Lookup" category is (for me), that I can't really think of a change to the "Yellow Arrow Lookup" category that keeps the original idea alive (but if somebody else does, I'm interested in a new discussion - same goes for other categories like "Kissmobile Sightings"), while I could imagine that a change to the "Shop24 Machines" categories name and description could make this category accessible again AND keep the "character" of the category.
"Unusual" is NOT the final term (see that I wrote that "unusual" is too subjective), and could also be "unique" (only one vending machine per country/state?), "rare", "huge", "out of place", "extraordinary", "curious", … English is not my mother tongue, so I used "unusual" just to say that we are not looking for usual vending machines, that sell usual goods.
We have agreed on (and made) changes of other categories. Some new leaders had a hard time to do it, because the changes were necessary, but at the same time the new leader didn't want to change the initial idea of the category. Same goes with the "Shop24 Machines" category. I think, at first we have to decide which of the three options are best. We now know that you prefer option #1. But most of the postings above say, that the category should be changed. Some want vending machines offering "unusual" (ooops, I wrote it again) goods, while others concentrate of the amount of goods. I think both groups agree, that the vending machine has to be available 24h, but apart from that I don't know whether the majority is preferring option #2 or #3.
Yes, I have done it myself - look at Victorian Era Architecture. What I didn't do was to take the original Victorian Houses category (which was accepting Commercial properties before I took over) and make it a general architecture category covering all of the missing styles from all eras. You see, this is in effect what you are doing. You are taking a specific vending machine company (Shop24) and expanding WAY beyond anything that was originally intended - either an undefined unique or rare subject to an officer whim OR every vending machine known to man. You see the difference? I have, with my Victorian Era Architecture category, a very precise category with specific requirements for posting. There is no subjectivity involved by my officers and I haven't expanded the category beyond its original tenets. It is a LOT different from the original category writeup with hardly any guidelines and the officers had to decide if this was truly Victorian. That's how a rewrite works.
As far as not knowing what the majority wants - you won't unless it is peer reviewed. Funny how that works. Lots of waymarkers don't get on the Forums, and you are going to get a false reading if you are just relying on the Forums to make decision like this. . -
4 hours ago, PISA-caching said:
In 2012 I had the idea for "Unusual vending machines" and I was not the first one. It turned out that a criteria like "unusual" or "has a 'wow' effect" are too subjective. In my humble opinion there are 3 possibilities:
1. Leave the category as it is. This is the worst possibility, that will keep the 11 waymarks with no chance to add anything.
2. Severly change the criteria for the category to something slightly familiar with the current 11 waymarks. -> "Unusual" vending machines, that may only offer a very limited variety of goods. This might become an interesting category, but it is difficult to find criteria that are as objective as possible.
3. Remove the brand "Shop24" and otherwise keep as much of the current criteria as possible. This might be similar vending machines that offer many different everyday goods like "Shop24", but have a different brand. "Boring", but would be as close to the initial idea as possible.
My first choice was possibility 2. If we see, that it is impossible to find a good category description for that option, I would choose #3.
Question then - there is another category like Shop24 for Yellow Arrows that the website for the Yellow Arrows is now defunct. No one is screaming about it - no one want to change it. No one can add waymarks to it.
The problem with "unusual" vending machines is that the term is subjective. What I think is an unusual vending machine, someone else may not. All I can see is a huge can of worms being opened with more and more common vending machines being accepted until the agreed option 2 becomes option 3. No, I completely disagree with your assessment, option 1 is the best option in this case because of the above, and if you really want to try to have an unusual vending machine category, create a new category and put it up for a vote thru peer review. It really isn't necessary to fill the grid...-
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19 minutes ago, The Snowdog said:
Can the page not be edited to reflect these changes?
The current page already lists Landmarkhunter or findthedata as alternate sources. I have asked the leader of the category, however, if we can make more permanent changes. We'll see what can be done. In the meantime, please use the info in my first post and you'll be able to get through the variables.
I do not want to have the sections completely deleted for the nationalregisterofhistoricplaces.com just in case by some random act they come back on line. My thought is that I'll put an Update in front of those sections to state that it is currently offline and to skip to the next section. That way, the info is still there if it comes back on line, people don't have to go back and clean up old waymarks, and we can move on. I think this is the easiest and best solution. -
53 minutes ago, PISA-caching said:
No need to shout. I was just asking.
Sorry, It's a very sore point right now.
I phrased it badly, but deleting waymarks, even 11 old ones, should never come into the conversation or into thought. It's too bad that it even has become a topic of conversation...
That bold really wasn't directed towards you. -
11 hours ago, elyob said:
Accepted waymarks must be grandfathered!!! Why would any waymarker be motivated to create waymarks if there is always a threat to have an accepted waymark denied at some unknown point in the future???
Ding Ding Ding!!!! We have a winner! elyob, you are EXACTLY correct.
Do you understand now? As waymarkers, at the point of creation, we can only create to the category requirements as they are posted at the time of posting. You, as an officer, have no right to go back to already accepted waymarks and deny because your category requirements have changed. You cannot expect me, as a waymarker, to have ESP or be clairvoyant, and not only post to current category requirements, but to unknown future category requirements.
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3 hours ago, PISA-caching said:
What exactly do you mean by "let this category just go away"? Delete it? Leave it as it is?
Leave it and forget it like has been done with Yellow Arrows. We are NOTgoing to delete old waymarks. EVER!!!!!!!
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1 hour ago, bluesnote said:
I think you are missing the point. We all agree that yes, those waymarks should have been grandfathered. We already addressed that. Let's stop discussing what the issue is and start talking about solutions. One solution was suggested by Alfouine. And to that, I agreed, would be a reasonable one. To my knowledge, none of the waymarks that were declined in the Kentucky Historical Markers group was from BruceS and I am well aware of that situation. As for the ones that were declined in Signs of History, I just approved quite a lot of them in Kentucky Historical Markers.
bluesnote - Alfouine went and DENIED ALL of the KENTUCKY markers in the SIGNS OF HISTORY category sometime last night... This wasn't the current issue with the denied markers in the KENTUCKY HISTORICAL MARKERS. Two separate categories. Can we agree that we need to absolutely, positively QUIT denying accepted waymarks in categories where the requirements have changed. Can we please agree on this? Seriously.
Solutions - easy.
If you want to change the Kentucky Historical Markers, get update privileges to the category or tell the current leader that this update is needed, and since he hasn't been on, if he doesn't reply, try to vote him out, and force the issue. Make the change to the category and then, GRANDFATHER, NOT DENY, all of the previous non-complying waymarks to the new requirements.Then, go into Signs of History and state that as of such and such a date, Kentucky no longer accepts non-official markers.
Why is this so hard? Seriously, this isn't the first category where requirements need to be changed, won't be the last - I've done it myself without any controversy.Denying already accepted waymarks only pisses off waymarkers unnecessarily. ...and denying BruceS waymarks just absolutely sullies his memory.
Alfouine's solution of denying all of the old Kentucky waymarks in the Signs of History was NOT reasonable. You should have left them alone and got on with your Kentucky Historical Marker update. Instead of muddying up one category, now there are TWO categories screwed up.-
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22 minutes ago, Alfouine said:
I declined all waymarks from Kentucky in Signs of history and hope you will approve them.
If waymarkers do not publish within 30 days in Kentucky historical markers , i will re-approve them in signs of history
Because a requirement of Signs of History category is "If the marker you are trying to waymark fits in one of the existing categories, it is NOT allowed here."
Just for information, Kentucky category exists since 2006 and Signs of History since 2007, so no waymarks from kentucky should exist in Signs of History category.
What a dumb move. I've got people slamming messages into my inbox because of this. You should have just left those waymarks alone and GRANDFATHERED them like you are supposed to. Why do you think the rules are different for you? You did this for Kentucky markers back in March and you got your hands slapped for it. In what alternate universe do you think it was okay to do that with those old Kentucky markers, get the decision reversed, then, to do the same dadgum thing with Signs of History?
Here's what should have happened - the old Kentucky markers should have NEVER, repeat, NEVER been denied back in March. You should have grandfathered them and worked to either get edit privileges or have someone become the new leader of the group since the current one hasn't been on in a year. My complaint was that until that description was changed, you were making up rules - you couldn't justify it. This also goes for Signs of History - you stated that all Kentucky markers were allowed in Kentucky and should not be allowed in Signs of History.So, now you COMPOUND the problem by going in and DENYING all old Kentucky markers in Signs of History. C'mon man, did you not learn the lesson when you got your hands slapped when you deleted the old Kentucky markers. LEAVE OLD APPROVED WAYMARKS ALONE. FULL STOP. How hard is this to understand? Among the people you decided to deny was BruceS. Yea, I'd say that was pretty ballsy. I don't think I would ever have the testicular fortitude to deny a BruceS waymark, living or dead.
Aggressive language - I was being nice and trying to get you to do the right thing with a personal email. I was trying to give you a chance to reverse a very poor decision on your own, but, since you decided to come out of the shadows on your own, let's let the Waymarking community decide who is playing the bully. All I was trying to do was figure out why my waymarks were being deleted when nothing was stated in the description - you guys have turned this into, I guess to make it as nice as I can, a giant snafu. It should have been this hard to correct the issue.
You guys need to get your stuff together, both hands.-
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16 hours ago, Max and 99 said:
There's probably a hundred within a three mile radius of my home.
I think we let this category just go away. This is one of those original niche categories that probably weren't a good idea in the first place and wouldn't have passed peer review today.
A category of 24hour vending machine places would be too broad, too generic, and too boring. Things like Carvanas are going to be way too rare and too regional.-
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I got this notification on one of the waymarks in question. Out of respect, I will not post the name of the user AND the comment has since been deleted.
Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Georgia, Florida all have historical markers along the highway and these are commonly known as historical markers. These park signs are not Kentucky Historical Markers and should be in signs of history or another category. Tennessee and Virginia would not allow these in their marker groups.
The user is ABSOLUTELY correct. Tennessee, Virginia, and North Carolina do not allow these kinds of markers in their category. Neither does Texas. The big difference? The category description STATES that they don't accept them. Kentucky category description currently does not state that AND the category did accept these before a certain date. So, sir, with all due respect, your opinion is just that, your opinion, and not valid at this time.
I can also state that Kansas, Iowa, Missouri and several other states accept non-official markers. Again, what other states do is moot as far as the topic currently at hand with Kentucky.
BTW, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida would have accepted the marker I submitted into their respective state categories - again, I would do some research before making comments that aren't quite accurate... Just Sayin'...-
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Being new here, I don't know iif the website is possible to be developed from the technical side.
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Short Story Vending Machines
in Recruiting and Category Proposals
Posted
My 35USD per year allows me to vote in peer review, whether or not I post in the forums. I made my case when the Shop24 Vending Machine category was amended - yes, your entry was what I expected, the start of a run of different types of vending machines.