Lunaverse

Here's an idea. Let's put cameras inside everyone's houses so we always know what people are doing. Then we'll make people report each week on how they spent all their time. That way, we'd always know when someone is planning any kind of crime -- not just terrorism, maybe even robberies too. Then we'll make all the buildings and yards and cars and houses all look the same, so it will be easy to spot anything that's out of place. No one can put anything where it doesn't belong. This will have the added benefit of making everything look tidy and preventing litter. All art will be approved by a committee, to make sure it is safe for our minds, and to make sure there are no bombs in it. Any new ways of doing things will also be approved by a committee. Then we will all be safe and sound, and we'll only be able to die of car accidents and hamburger fat, the way it was meant to be -- heck, if we have cameras everywhere, we could even ban hamburgers and force people to eat organic salad so everyone will live to 100. It won't be a very interesting life, but we will maximize lifespan and orderliness. Lots of security (for everyone that falls well within the norm), and no freedom. Better? Luna

This is an excellent point! I think an attitude like this would pretty much cover both sides -- let people have their free speech in public places (within reason -- which I think LEDs are totally within reason), and still provide for public safety. It lets LED artists do their thing, and us do our thing, and regular normal people who watch TV and shop and Macy's do their thing. The alternative is the present attitude -- if you've acted out of the norm, you must have been doing something evil. Luna

LED Artists are also not Terrorists. That is another important distinction. Luna

Graffiti artists don't hide things "behind" anything. The point of a light-up sign is to be in public and be seen everywhere. The one I saw was on a light pole. Was it stupid to put it on a bridge? Probably. That doesn't make them terrorists, nor does it make a "sign" into a "device". Terrorists HIDE things. Did anyone see the boxcutters that took down 3 American planes and two skyscrapers? Did the boxcutters light up and blink? NO. They were sneaky, hidden. They were in someone's pocket! Terrorists aren't as stupid as some subway drivers who call in "bombs" that are shaped like cartoon characters. If there's going to be a bomb under a bridge, it will be disguised as a wet cardboard box, or a homeless person. I for one don't like trading in my freedom for fear. The terrorists committed one act on 9/11, and the politicians and media are doing a fantasic job of not letting us forget. It is very convenient how much power they've won from a single enemy attack. Interestingly enough, one of the arrested artists fled Belarus in 1996 seeking political asylum in the US. There his crime was opposing a dictatorship. He apparently thought he'd have a little more freedom here. You're more likely to win the lottery than be killed in a terrorist attack. Why are you so eager to cash in your freedom to be saved from these false fears? Your own hobby is in danger. I know we don't put things on bridges -- but our stuff looks a lot more bomb-like than a lit cartoon character. I've opened two Urban caches inside Seattle city limits (in very public places) that look just like pipes (pipebombs anyone?). Everyone else uses ammo cans, which look like.. well... demolition kits. This could have just as easily happened to any one of us. It's easy to point fingers and say, "It was just a viral marketing scheme by a huge corporation, so we're safe." Or "what I do is harmless, so I'm safe." Or "I don't put things under bridges, so it's safe." Well it isn't safe. My cache is in an in-city park, and is an ammo can. It's along a very popular walkway. The people looking for it carry suspcious devices with lights, and they loiter and have shifty eyes and whipser and do things normal people don't do. This could just as easily have been you or me, and that's what scares me more than 9/11, more than any terrorist. If we want to protect our own rights, we should look at these warnings signs even if they're happening to other people. We should be just as concerned about justice for these guys as we would be if one of our own were mis-accused. If society is jumping at shadows, it's not the shadows fault -- it's society's. And the next shadow could be mine or yours. Luna

I actually saw one of these in Seattle's Capitol Hill area about two weeks ago. My first thought was, "Cool! More high-tech graffiti!" But then maybe it's because I'd visited Graffiti Research Lab before, and have friends that are into making LED Throwies. This kind of thing has been going on as a hobby for a while. Lighted non-damaging graffiti. Projector art on the sides of buildings. "Laser tagging". Making inexpensive yet sturdy chairs out of cardboard for people to sit on in New York's public areas. This kind of reaction by the government and especially the media (who keeps insisting on calling it a "device") endangers any kind of creative public activities, including LED Throwing and Geocaching. Worse, it imposes a greater culture of fear where even political protests become endangered as possible "terrorist activity". I think the terrorists have already won. Luna

Wow, this is coming along quite well. I'm surprised at the number of articles already written. There are now a couple of help files up, in cause you're new to MediaWiki and don't know how to format things. Also the needed articles list is now very long! Luna

I'm not worried about toe-stepping at all. Me personally, I just wanted to see this come into existence to help people learn more about all the various aspects of geocaching. And as others have mentioned, I don't think this would be wasted time, even if GC.com did this officially. I'm assuming we're doing this under the GNU license, probably copying the Wikipedia license over nearly-verbatim. Meaning articles written are not the property of anyone. Meaning if gc.com wanted to copy them (and agreed to follow the GNU license) they totally could. Luna

Spiffy keen. BigWhiteTruck, I can help admin it, and also help with article writing. I think once it is seeded with enough articles (and a list of proposed articles) that people get an idea of what it's about, there will be lots of writers. Once you have it up, I'll jump in there and import the appropriate "Help" articles from Wikipedia.org so people can get their bearings. And start a "Proposed Article" list, or Table of Contents. Luna

Yeah, those things are cool. I got one a few years ago and had a fun time playing around with it. 2+ hours of entertainment for $1, pretty good deal. To answer the original question -- I get nearly all my trade items from dollar stores, thrift stores, and clearance racks. If you have a good eye and good taste, you can do this and leave a cache feeling much richer for it. Plus all the fun you have shopping. Luna

Is it possible that prior to your caches being muggled, cachers traded out those items from your caches, then dropped them in this other cache, as it was nearby? One of my caching partners never keeps trade items. He always uses them as trade items in another cache. So sometimes these items just hop over to a nearby cache. Luna

Hi Jeremy! The problem with Wikipedia is that most of the types of articles we would want, Wikipedia would not want. I spent a lot of time last fall editing and writing for that site, and there are some very specific guidelines on what is acceptable. They are more interested in articles that appeal to a general audience. If someone wants more detailed information, they should seek another source. They also don't take How-To articles, or "What is the best x for y" articles. For example the topic that sparked this idea, "How to spot a meth-lab while geocaching, and what to do about it", would be totally deleted on Wikipedia. As would "Steps to placing your first cache", an article on using a Dell Axim for geocaching, and troubleshooting bad readings. Luna

Sure, having it off this site would be just peachy -- but that leads to several possible issues: 1) Convincing the Groundspeak/gc people to put it up Well, that's the biggest issue, actually. There may be technology issues, such as whether their servers will run MediaWiki, but that shouldn't be a problem as they're running PHPBB (this forum). Luna

Domain name ideas (available): gcwiki.com cacheopedia.com cachopedia.com cachepedia.com cacherpedia.com* wikicoords.com cacheknowledge.com* cacherwiki.com wikicacher.com* seekerpedia.com* cacherintherye.com (sorry, couldn't help it) Items with *'s are my favorites. I like the generic aspect of the words "cache" and "seeker" over "geocache" as it leaves things open for Terracache, letterboxing, et al. Domain names that are taken Most are being cybersquatted. wikicache.com geopedia.com geowiki.com (mapping wiki, cool!) lostwiki.com knowledgecache.com Luna

Why not start there? I have never posted to Wikipedia, but I don't know of any restrictions. The only issue with me would be that it is yet another account I would have to set up and maintain. Any chance a wiki can be added to geocaching.com? Wikipedia has some articles on general geocaching, gpses, etc. However, they are not interested in specifics or how-to's, only on general encyclopedic knowledge. For instance, they might accept articles on specific founders of geocaching, including a bio, but they (they being other wikipedia users) would remove an article about how to place a cache or types of walking sticks to use while caching. I'm still being tempted by my hyperactive ADHD side to "Just do it", but my older, wiser, more experienced side is realistically warning me against it. Since we don't have many volunteers, I guess we'll have to wait and see which side wins. haha. Luna

That's too bad. I know Wikipedia has been wonderfully accurate and correct on the articles I've read where I knew the subject. It helps that they have hordes of pedantical computer geeks. I've started this topic on its own thread, since it had meandered far off the topic of meth labs. Luna

This idea came up as a side-discussion in another topic. We were discussing the need for a niche how-to, in this case, "How to spot a meth-lab while caching (and what to do about it)". There are hundreds of little how-to's like this that have not yet been covered on geocaching.com, geocacher-u.com, and other good sites. Therefore, I would like to propose the creation of a geocaching wiki (encyclopedia). [Definition section: A wiki is an online documentation system which allows its users to edit and create new documents. All users become contributors to the system. Examples would be Wikipedia and software documentation. Advantages include: Free volunteer slave labor, collective knowledge pooling, typo editing, quick creation and editing of pages (without the need to upload files), a decent search engine, and easy access to data. Vandalism is self-regulated, as a ruined page can be easily restored. Edits are logged, so offenders can be banned from editing.] ***Something like this would NOT be intended to replace existing education Geocaching sites.*** These are great sites. Instead, this wiki would contain the summarized knowledge of experienced geocachers, filling niches that are not currently filled. Imagine the facts and how-to's you read in the forum, organized, quick to skim, and easily searchable. I'm envisioning something like Wikipedia, with "neutral point of view" articles that read like an encyclopedia or software documentation. Examples from off the top of my head: and... This is different from the forums, because it can collect all the knowledge from an entire thread (or several duplicate threads) into a concise format. But it's not static either, allowing new ideas or knowledge to be added later. To give you an idea of the scope, here are some example topics that would make great articles [my comments are in brackets]: *GPSrs [Overall topic for GPSrs] *Garmin eTrex Legend [Articles on specific models] *Garmin eTrex Legend Field Guide [A mini-manual covering features of this model, and how they are specifically applied to caching] *Garmin eTrex Legend Troubleshooting [Common problems with this model, and how to solve them] *Dogs [The overall topic of dogs and geocaching] *Dogs and Muggles [specific concerns of having dogs around muggles] *Dog Training [Training dogs to find caches] *CITO [Overall] *CITO Events, Hosting [info on how to host a CITO event] *CITO Events, Attending [What to expect when attending] You hopefully get the idea of how this could be useful. For the nuts and bolts, this is not too difficult to set up. There are several free (open source) wiki platforms available. (I am most familiar with MediaWiki (used on Wikipedia). I set one of these up for personal use.) It would require: 1) A domain name. 2) Hosting (Someone has already volunteered some hosting for a while -- feel free to chime in.) 3) Installing and/or setting up a wiki on the website. a ) This doesn't need to be too fancy at first. Wiki's dynamically generate the sites, and come with a basic template that looks good without graphics. But graphics *can* be added if desired. b ) The main part of this requires making decisions -- i.e. what wiki to use, what will the editing rules be, how will security be handled, who will be the admins, what will happen if someone vandalizes, can anonymous users have edit writes or not, etc. 4) Write the rules and meta-documentation (how to write a good article, how to handle disputes, how to use the wiki system, etc). Much of this can be borrowed from Wikipedia, so long as we use the GNU license. 5) Place "seed" articles, which could simply be a table of contents listing some topics of uncreated articles, to get people started. Once it's set up, we talk Geocaching.com into linking to us (hehe), and we set volunteers loose to fill in the content. Here's the catch -- I will admit right up front that I'm just the "Idea Man" .. err, woman. I'm really great at thinking up ideas like these, but then I get started on a couple of them and my time gets all filled up. I'm currently in the middle of a lot of projects so I will probably not be able to spearhead this or take much action. Which means, if you're a good leader, feel free to "steal" this idea -- I'd rather have it see the light of day than keep it under a bushel just because I want credit and glory. With that caveat given, I release this to the forums to be attacked and torn to pieces! Luna P.S. I'm not on here 24/7, so I will likely go all night, and some of the morning, before reading and responding.

Wow. I've never heard of that guy before. Granted, I haven't lived there for 10 years, but still ... I also did a quick google search, and didn't turn up anything. Some guy ran for office by that name in Grandview a while back.. that's about it. Luna

Well I'm tempted to volunteer, but I already have enough on my plate. :/ Still, it's tempting I set up a wiki for my own personal use last fall. It's not too difficult. Wouldn't cost terribly much, either. Domain registration for $7 or so, hosting for about $5-10 a month. The code for MediaWiki is open source and free to use. You just install it and get it linked, manage it now and then, and let people fill it up. Luna

Absolutely agreed. I've had similar discussions about the lack of racial diversity in other social communities I belong to, and what demographic and cultural factors have brought this about. It's a purely academic discussion, but worthwhile to have. Like most things, it's really just another study of chaos theory -- why do these patterns emerge? And is there any way to actually figure it out? Figuring it out doesn't actually *matter* in this case, but it is interesting to ponder. It's also interesting to ponder people's strong emotional reactions to this topic. Discussing race has somehow become taboo. It it because something we say might accidentally appear racist? Or because it's taken as an accusation of racism? I don't see either of these things happening. I don't get it -- this should NOT be a taboo subject. But it tends to be, both here and elsewhere I've seen it come up. Luna

Hmm.. I like the idea of a giant website ... Has anyone here heard of a wiki? It's a type of website for storing data. The idea is that articles are written and edited by the very users of the site. It's a great way to get information written quickly and kept up to date by volunteers. The best example of a wiki is Wikipedia, the bestest encyclopedia ever. Vandalism is kept in check by all users, who can revert a page back to its previous condition at any time. It's also often used for open source software user manuals. This would sort of be a user manual for geocachers, including articles like "How to spot a meth lab" and "What to do if a bear attacks" and "What types of containers do people use". and "How to hide a cache". Such a thing would be much easier to search than the forums. Luna

If you use a 55 gallon drum, I'd make sure you contact the owner/maintainer of the land (county? state?) to get permission and let them know what you're doing. I'd also clearly mark the can. There are people who dump waste out in the middle of nowhere to avoid the high costs of hazardous waste disposal. Your cache could quickly fall into the hands of the government if you don't notify someone first. You don't want to make the can so that muggles will look, but you do want to mark it in such a way the hazmat team doesn't get called, or that a called hazmat team will quickly get the idea. I'd also hide the can itself just a little bit in shrubs or something, not just put it out in the middle of the bridge. For all the same reasons. Luna P.S. If you have a local winery, you can sometimes get plastic 55 gallon drums for real cheap ($5-10).

And in addition to other comments, I will put in another plug for walking sticks It always takes me much longer to find a small/regular cache without my walking stick. It saves so much time to just poke at things to quickly eliminate hiding spots. Luna

I'm not worried about number of finds. I agree, it doesn't make sense to hide something when you haven't even found anything yet. I'm talking about this one year rule. At the rate I'm going, in 1 year I should have over 300 finds. I started plotting my first cache at around 15-20 finds. I'm still plotting it, and probably won't get it placed and approved until I'm at about 50 (just because I'm doing something a little complicated to disguise the cache). That will only be about 2 months from when I started caching. Yet someone else might be caching for a year and only have 5 finds... One year seems a bit artitrary and unhelpful, and that's what I'm debating. Luna

P.S. Do you know the name of the person in the grave? You might try previously mentioned cemetary. I don't remember the name of it, but as you head out of town on the main road (Horne Drive), it's past the Red Apple grocery a little ways, in the midst of orchards, right on the turn down Old Inland Empire road. Otherwise, you might try contacting the editor of the local paper. When I lived there, it was called the Benton City Bulletin and was run by Bev or Bea somebody. The Benton City branch of the Mid-columbia Library might also be of help. I also seem to recall some kind of historical society there, or some attempts to start one. Benton City and Kiona were once booming places, before some flooding and the freeway came through. Luna

Wow, I grew up in Benton City. (Live in Seattle now)... I don't remember any particular grave that was famous or that stood out... My grandpa is burried in the cemetary on the corner of OIE... Luna