VAtechnoteacher

Ah, the most requested feature. Compliments on getting it up and running. I hope this will help to solve many a person's problems. Hopefully.

I received the Virginia coins yesterday and have been so impressed I've sent my paypal order for 5 more! Thanks so much for all of your hard work and dedication to this project.

Clan Riffster--my apologies. I was implying that it is all about the numbers for this particular cacher--not cachers in general. I am so NOT about the numbers that I deleted all of my finds from this cacher's pages (and others in this area are also doing the same it seems). I lost a couple of days worth of numbers in doing so, but it isn't about the numbers for me either. It was a good feeling for me personally to remove my name as far as possible from this person's name/cache pages/events. Everyone who I cached with when finding those caches knows I was there and I know I was there--it ain't about the numbers.

If you look at this archived (and now locked) event cache page which I referred to in my earlier post, you will see that this cacher KNOWS the proper way to ficticiously log a cache with "attended" logs--and understands how to both predate the log, and make sure they all drop down (out of the radar) enough to 'hide' from the front! These additional bogus 'attended' logs were added a full 14 months after the event was held. The 'giveaway' to others was the time date stamp on an uploaded picture from Aug. 25, 2006! The same time frame as when the finds on caches were deleted. So I guess if you REALLY want to TRY to be the master of hiding your ficticious logs (or recover logs which have been deleted for ANY reason from a cache page)--this is even better. Who goes back and checks out the event caches? Especially when the lister/owner of the event page is the one logging dozens of attended notes? Can You SAY it is all about the NUMBERS and being sure to have the highest number of finds in a state--whether we've really found them all or not?

Now back to our regularly scheduled thread, already in progress.CCCA isn't a sock. bump

Don't see how things could get worse unless the step is made into doing something truly illegal in the 'real' vs. the geocaching world. I appreciate your response--

There has been similar problems in the area where I live. (This also relates to the thread about Sock Puppet Accounts by Konnarock Kid and Marge which is currently an open forum topic.) I apologize up front for the long post (and you can see that I seldom post in the forums and seldom read them either), but some cachers have responded in the other thread that this issue doesn't make sense and that all of the information hasn't been posted for everyone to read. The larger issue here is not the sock puppet account, but the appropriate or inappropriate actions of deleting bogus logs for cachers who have been warned over and over again. In our area a local cacher became disgruntled at not being invited to a 'private' dinner some cachers planned and attended so he decided to create a team of relatively newbie cachers to create chaos. He discovered the dinner group had met without him after he found logs of the folks in attendance at a night cache. The reason he wasn't invited to the dinner had everything to do with his inability to get along well with others in the first place--he had a long history of confrontations and ugly discussions with both cachers and reviewers. During one of his times of dissent, he archived every cache he had and claimed it was due to the 'childish behavior of another cacher' who lived in NC. He has sent outraged emails to the individuals who attended the dinner and to the local forum on Yahoo, where he described himself as a 'pitbull who wouldn't let issues like his being omitted from the dinner group drop--he would go down fighting'. His team consisted of at most five team members, but usually they only logged as a group of four. They did much armchair caching during their reign of false logs. They recruited one poor female who thought this was a fun sport and enjoyed the 'finds' but she has since admittedly (in a note on a cache she hadn't found - Jeremiah Was a Bullfrog) only found 50 caches--and says that at one time the team leader had logged finds for her. Her account had logged almost 1,000 finds in 30 days. The 'tip off' was when the team logged finds spanning a distance of approximately 200 miles all in one day to the tune of 170+ caches. When the local cachers saw the 'find' logs pouring in, they got in touch with each other and started comparing notes and cache logs. There would be signatures on park 'n grabs, but no logs on caches a little out of the way. Cache owners who had not been active in several months and had large numbers of caches had ALL of their hiking/distance/quick caches logged--yet none had been visited or had signatures. This was another tactic used by the team captain who directed all the others as to what they should log. The team used sticker logs and one member of the team was even seen here and there in his truck stickering cache logs. When confronted, like at Ashtonview, single team members would say the rest of the team was 'down the road' having something to eat, somewhere else in another car, etc. When cache owners started questioning the lack of signature on logs, their caches started disappearing. Cache owners went out in groups, checked on caches, and then replaced caches. We had many missing, many moved, some removed with notes posted on cache pages that management of a business or local land owners had asked that the caches be removed and that they were calling police. We felt that this was an attempt to get caches archived by reviewers. In ever instance of these notes, the property owners gave permission or in the case of business managers, they never talked to the cachers at all and knew nothing about the confrontations which supposed happened. It has been work to clean up the mess. Some cachers split off and created a new message group since the 'team captain' controlled the original group and the posts made to it--anything not to his liking was deleted yet he allowed the team members to bully, accuse, and post profanities directed at others. Eventually the team captain found his way to the first place position in his state with all of his bogus numbers, team caching practices of one to a car stickering caches for 4-5, and armchair caching. He has continued to issue threats privately--but not through gc.com. He loves the drama! His boyfriend had a case of guilt and wanted to wipe the slate clean. Now comes the quandary--what to do with the bogus logs, the real logs (since not all members were ever at all the caches) and where do we go from here. Two of the team members have posted notes on some caches they didn't find and have deleted their logs themselves, but with so many posted logs in 30 days time, they admittedly don't remember all they actually found. At the end of June, they made their last known 'armchair run' which covered NC, SC, GA, and TN--all in one day. Some notification has been made there too. The few logs which have been deleted were 'recovered' by the cacher on a past event page as 'attended' notes--deceptively place 5 cache entries down from the top with dates from last year. Descriptions of caches and logs are incorrect as well. I already know there will be lots of opinions on this, but I would welcome the discussion. The latest issue now involves the team captain gathering up all the jeeps in the area he could find in caches (going out to caches he has already logged and NOT discovering the Jeeps, but grabbing them and physically removing them from the containers and holding onto them. Those jeeps which are left in our area will head into caches this week--but will they be able to go anywhere or will they find their way into one person's hands like the other 5? On a positive note--we have replaced all of our caches for now, we do have a wonderful group of folks in the area who truly do enjoy each other's company, and we are going to continue having fun with the sport! If anything this chaos has enabled the group to become even more close! We definitely are not asking for TPTB to help with this situation due to their not being the log police. I totally understand where their position lies. But there are obligations we as individual cachers may have to take to attempt to safeguard the direction in which this fun sport wanders in our area-- let the discussions begin...not like they haven't already though!

Please put me down for 6 please? I read that they were only coming out in one metal, is that still the case? Thanks!

The shipment my wife sent out on the 20th was the first one we mailed and it was returned to us so she resent it. I am glad you received your coins. Sorry it took so long A little confused here, but no matter... you listed my name on a list for the June 16th shipment here in this thread. you listed my name on a list of replacements for July 2nd shipment here in this thread. I got coins today which weren't listed here as a resend of coins with a postmark of July 20th. At any rate, the coins arrived in the mail today, July 24th just fine...if others were listed by mistake that they were receiving shipments when in fact you were NOT shipping them out, then maybe that is where some of the confusion lies. Thanks again!

If they are still available I'd like to get the ones I've paid for delivered please? Still no email response to my request, still no coins after two shipments...are there others out there still waiting on coins like I am? Just wondering. We are not sure what is going on...alot have been coming back to us and we just re-send them. We are having a horrible time with these coins. We are sorry for all the delays. We are not sure what else to do... Have either of the two sets you've mailed out to me specifically come back to you? I've never had problems with receiving coin shipments until this time. You haven't indicated whose coins are being returned to you, so it is hard to know which ones are still circulating through the mail service, which ones are at your house due to being returned, or????? I guess one option would be to refund money. I'll be glad to have your refund mine since I seem to be unable to get the coins after six weeks. It is frustrating for both you and the folks who may still be waiting after six+ weeks. Just let me know. Thanks! We never had problems with trades and other things in the mail until now. We are still waiting on 4 different coins that were shipped out in April, we have had no response about replacement coins or for them to refund our money. I understand how frustrated you may be getting as it is getting frustrating for us too. And we are very sorry for all the confusion and delays. I never received the shipment of coins from June 16th. I didn't receive the replacement shipment from July 2nd. HOWEVER, I'm happy to report that I did receive the third shipment from Thursday, July 20th completely intact today--Monday, July 24th. This has been about the same amount of time all coin shipments have taken before--the mailing label was intact and there seemed to have been no problems. I hope everyone else gets their coins in the same good time and shape as I did today! Many thanks, p.s. If the other two shipments show up in my mail, I'll be sure to let you know right away--but they have been lost for a long time and maybe they have found their way back home by now.

If they are still available I'd like to get the ones I've paid for delivered please? Still no email response to my request, still no coins after two shipments...are there others out there still waiting on coins like I am? Just wondering. We are not sure what is going on...alot have been coming back to us and we just re-send them. We are having a horrible time with these coins. We are sorry for all the delays. We are not sure what else to do... Have either of the two sets you've mailed out to me specifically come back to you? I've never had problems with receiving coin shipments until this time. You haven't indicated whose coins are being returned to you, so it is hard to know which ones are still circulating through the mail service, which ones are at your house due to being returned, or????? I guess one option would be to refund money. I'll be glad to have your refund mine since I seem to be unable to get the coins after six weeks. It is frustrating for both you and the folks who may still be waiting after six+ weeks. Just let me know. Thanks!

If they are still available I'd like to get the ones I've paid for delivered please? Still no email response to my request, still no coins after two shipments...are there others out there still waiting on coins like I am? Just wondering.

We actually had 4 packages come back on Saturday, Not sure if there are any today. We are resending the ones that were returned to us after we e-mail the people to make sure that is the correct mailing address. If yours isn't 1 that was returned, I will get a replacement out to you tomorrow. I didn't get coins from the first mailing, I still haven't received the replacement ones mailed on the 2nd of July and am still waiting in Bristol, Virginia. Any chance that you'd contact me via email and let me know the status of the coins? I wonder if you are using an incorrect address (the address in Paypal IS correct though) or something since you've now mailed out 2 sets and neither have made it to me? I also wonder if everyone who is saying their coins are arriving without a postmark--is there something amiss in your post office? Thanks for any information you can provide about the missing 2 sets of coins. I'd appreciate an email or something to let me know what to do if anything after this long. Thanks!

Please clarify something for me. Your post started out with the theory that some people are logging false finds on caches that they never even tried to visit. The assumption being that the cache owner is inactive and will not catch the deception. We all agree that these logs are bogus. You go on to explain the some cachers are teaming up and signing the logs as a team, but logging online individually. There is a thread related to this issue. Several people do not believe that this alone constitutes cheating. Obviously, if individual players claimed the find, but were not, in fact, on site at the time of the find. The logs of those individuals would be bogus. My post was NOT a theory. My post was from my own experience as I personally knew some of the players who were participating in the falsified logs. Since the activity began, one former player/cacher (who left the team) has verified the bogus activities. He/she has promised he/she will go back and 'make the logs' accurate. I don't know if that has happened or not. But at this time, he/she has stopped caching altogether. I hope this clarifies what I 'meant' to say. The team name in no way reflects all of the individual cachers present--the group created a whole list of team names with unkind acronyms used with some regularity--but the team name in no way reflected gc.com names. The team would split into different cars and hunt some caches assigned to them to do by routes (not all of the cachers were present at all of the caches as they were in different cars)--then the 'leader of the team' would log the finds first (both ones actually found and the other estimated 30% - 40% they drove past while in the area) which were assigned to the individual groups for the day's outing. Everyone would log behind that first initial log as though they were all present for all of the finds. The team name in no way reflected a team name on gc.com--it changed several times, but the players were always the same. Each of the players had individual names registered on gc.com--but the team name or the team sticker on the cache log didn't list the individual gc.com cachers. I cache with folks who log as a team on gc.com--but they have a team name on gc.com and nobody questions their finds or their hunting for caches separately.

Pass this on to your local reviewer. Don't email every questionable find, but when it seems obvious like there is a 'sweep' of logs, then please do so. Il don't believe that its the job of reviewers to police logs. I doubt the reviewers would even want to get involved in that. But if there is rampant abuse of this site's features, people have been known to have been banned. I don't believe it is the job of the reviewers to be 'log police' either. Therefore I am not going to say anything about this to a reviewer, but I wonder how it would appear if everyone who logged these caches behind 'the offenders' made note of the 'invisible ink' they used. I think it would be a far worse punishment to 'out' the offenders publicly through all the area logs and perhaps that would discourage this practice more efficiently. Dunno... The falsified 'sweep of logs' would be apparent to all and if the reviewer(s) wanted more information they could contact cache owners--however these cachers are counting on not being 'called' on their practices or at the very least not being 'outed'.

Here is a new twist on this same subject. Some high number 'finders' (I'm probably using that term somewhat loosely as of now)I've followed while caching don't even go out to the physical location of caches--they sit at home, look for caches whose owners are inactive (a specific one has not logged onto gc.com for a year) and simply log all the caches which belong to a likely inactive owner. They even admit to practicing caching this way! These cachers are smart enough to read the other logs, make it appear they were at the actual cache site by echoing some of the same sentiments/decriptions of others who have logged these caches and bump their numbers by spending no time/money/gas/effort in doing so. However, when you reach the cache location in your pursuit of a smilie, their signatures are not to be found. The ah-ha moment came when these cachers logged ~180 caches in one day over a straight line distance of almost 200 miles in two different states. Sometimes they use a 'team theme name' (not a gc.com team name--but a team name created for five different cachers who oftentimes cache separately rather than together) and slap a sticker on a paper log (without individual cacher names) and simply have everyone (whether present at the cache or not) log a find for a cache. Sometimes they go in multiple cars and wipe out an entire area with team stickers. They have recently started logging caches in larger routes sometimes through multiple states which ultimately make a circle between where they live and where they 'say' they've been--all to increase numbers? Some of their 'falsified' logs were deleted locally and then caches started disappearing. When some of the offenders were warned their logs would be deleted if their signature wasn't on the cache or they hadn't followed cache rules for logging their caches, ugly acronyms with profanities were edited into cache logs. (You do realize cache owners do not receive any notification of any edited logs.) Another warning at least got the acronyms edited, but the opportunity for a potential friendship or caching relationship was damaged in the process. The only positive to all of this behavior is that local cachers who now followed them on enough logs and are seeing the lack of signatures and even stickers. Their 'find' record means little unless the lies and false numbers mean something to them alone. These cachers have been spoken to kindly and personally about their caching ethics, suggestions have been made as to how best to remedy the falsified logs to redeem their reputations and the cachers have laughed it off as a joke. Anal or not--I find it hard to attend or contribute to a milestone celebration of any sort when the cause for celebration was a lie and continues to be a lie! It seems a shame that people who are interested in numbers think this behavior is okay--but the reality is that they do. The other reality is that many of these cachers seek the high numbers to gain attention and sadly that is what they are gaining when their logs are deleted and they consequently find one person at a time to tell their sad tale of woe and (as in your case) attempt to destroy the protesting cache owners and their reputations who play this game by the gc.com rules. The cachers also pointed a finger at cache owners and claimed their stickers had been removed from caches on purpose to make them look bad! I actually smiled when I read a log on a cache several states away (part of a falsified loop route one day) which had been found recently by someone who had planned for it during the past 4 years!!! She found the same cache as the number ho's for her 1K milestone and 'called out' these cachers who had simple copy and paste logs on an obvious rapelling cache hide rated a difficulty of 5. She didn't see their names on the actual log in the cache... Maybe that is another solution as well-- Good luck in the future with your number ho's...sadly we've all got them. We all control our cache pages and maybe people will grow more and more tired of the false number ho's...I personally respect the number ho's who have gotten their numbers the 'honest' way--finding a cache, signing a paper log! How much more simple could it be?

Still don't have mine here in Virginia!!!???? I'm no further away than Georgia I wouldn't think.....????? VaTechnoTeacher - ordered 2 and still waiting. How long before you mail out replacements? I live in Virginia--mine were on the June 12th mailing list with Atlanta Gal and Virginia is geographically closer to PA than GA. It is now July 2nd and still no coins. I am sorry that you've been having problems, but I was just curious since you've indicated that you've mailed out replacements to people already. Thanks and hope everything with the new baby works out just fine!

Still don't have mine here in Virginia!!!???? I'm no further away than Georgia I wouldn't think.....????? VaTechnoTeacher - ordered 2 and still waiting.

Your post from the 16th indicates that our coins (2) were mailed out 10 days ago...still nothing in the mailbox though... Could you check on this? Thanks! VaTechnoTeacher ------------------------------------------------------ My computer isn't acting up today, so here is the rest of the list of all the coins that have been mailed. summerandnana rwsw49 Irish-Hunter John R. Elmore Bill Brekke Michael Johnson Fundamental and Venlis BenGeo'en Mr & Mrs Smith kayakerinme Rick618 mohr11 Mocadeki qattales Hobo Dude IceCreamMan j2d2 booboo_1 Triffid Cache Maine Cache-bert Frisco05 kcart DutchBoy FluteFace f0t0m0m stvanme Jug & Roon Marky LZ33 Teamsnook Dliming Renegade Knight HerrK & Lassie Lazer Susanne&Marc HiDude_98 Scaw DL3BZZ Team A.I Mystery Ink Maxilainen wilg dblrngr KSWader TuuronTour 2bugs Ryder3 & BetterHalf JackCacheNC AuntieNae Team Js VaTechnoTeacher PACT DayHunters Toojin & Bart Dibbler69 Camocacher Doublestuff pfalstad DeepSeaDivers GBOTS Gert Utah Bill msmunchmello

I'd like to order two please! Glad you didn't get into my vehicle at GeoQuest AB4N--we've have thought you were crazy!!!!! (Was part of Team XRay)

I would definitely want two sets! Cool designs, great colors, wonderful concept as we are all-season cachers here!

I'd like to order 4 coins--great cause and great coins!

I read through the list of posts and think I'm seeing that all of the ones for sale are gone? I was all set to order one after talking to you this past weekend at the event for DMFlyer and cudlecub!

Sent email requested two -- if they are still available! Thanks!

Considering your admission in this reply to a post-- Why didn't you pick a cache somewhere else???? credibility issues???? Wouldn't have been nearly as much fun as this has been now would it?