Salvelinus

My how things have changed. It use to be all about doing the mapwork, researching the best approaches, and absorbing yourself in the unknown adventure of the cache hunt. Now we "need a reason" other than the fact that its there? So what are the "reasons" for putting caches in parking lots and rest area guardrails? Have patience Matt. Someone who views caching similar to the way you do will find your cache soon enough...and reading their logs will be worth the wait. Salvelinus

My first reaction was "Who really cares". But the OP topic is much more relevant that the thread about what product is best for dry skin....and that one is somehow still living. Salvelinus

As I have said before, I am all for some sort of rating system. There seems to be some resistance due to potential hurt feelings, so It should be done anonymous. Also, it should be made available as an optional feature when you are developing your cache page. That way, you can opt out. Salvelinus

I wouldn't consider the aquarium "mini". It makes my 100 gallon aquarium at home look like a "ultra" micro cache. Next time your there, drive a short ways down route 61 and do the Fishermans Lure Cache. Its a really cool trail to explore. If you have to skip doing the parking lot micros all around Cabelas to have time for this one...I highly recommend it. Salvelinus

Since I started caching in 8/03 it's been about the fun, not necesarily the location, and since they killed sig lines I see no numbers posted here - you have to go look for them, and if they don't mean anything, why would you look? I don't look. But everytime I read cache logs I see other cachers numbers whether I want to or not. I assume others can as well. I also see forum threads linking worldwide rankings and "atta boys" for cachers reaching certain find numbers. Maybe numbers don't mean much to you or I, but they definately mean something to many. Usually those that are placing caches that many non-numbers cachers would consider "lame". Is it possible to consider that there may be a correlation there? Salvelinus

Excellent idea! Was checking out your top 5%. That cache style sounds kinda familar! PTTP? Salvelinus

I assume this is a Pennsylvania cache? If the DCNR does not know about it, it could probably be grandfathered as not needing a DCNR permit to be listed on GC.com. However, the DCNR has been pretty good about finding unpermitted caches and contacting the owners. Many of the older caches on State Forest or State Park land, placed before the permitting policy, have been exempt. I know of at least 2 in my local area. If I am wrong, I'm sure KA will clarify. Personally, I would take the inititive to get it approved and properly permitted before the DCNR made it an issue for you. They seem to be fairly positive about geocaching, so the process would not be too bad. Arguing that it was there before they purchased the land may help you get your permit approved easier, but it is not a valid arguement for exemption from the permitting process since the DCNR has a policy they must adhear to. Salvelinus edit: Semantics

A piece of it would also make a great TB! Salvelinus

Edit: Double post...that was weird! Salvelinus

My solution to the "lameness" is to eliminate the prominence of numbers on this website. Keep your numbers viewable to you on your own account page, but I personally find little need to see anyone else's. If you need a number to reference a cachers experience then stop adding them up after someone reaches 100, 200 or some reasonable milestone. Use 100+ instead. What's the difference between a cacher that has found 200 or 2000 caches...other than one may have more free time than another? I'm convinced that the numbers fixation breeds the lameness. Reduce the focus on numbers and I believe quality caches would return. When I started caching it was constantly stated that placing caches is all about location, location, location. Is it still like this?, or is the unspoken truth that it is becoming all about numbers, numbers, numbers? Salvelinus

I have actually noticed a slight degradation in cache quality. The worst one was not placed by a local, rather a numbers cacher who happened to frequently drive by a local rest area. That cache (an old lipstick container with a scrap of paper, hidden in a fence near the exit of the rest stop) has, thankfully, bit the dust. I live near Penn State University so you would expect some campus micros and urban type caches to pop up. But the surrounding area also has the most square milage of public land in the entire state. Besides the caches I have placed...most of the new caches pop up within the urban areas. Most of them are good, but a few of them make me say "What is the purpose of this?" Sometimes I wonder why cachers don't just drive a few miles outside of town to place a cache rather than creating a virtual around Joe Paterno's statue. My theory is that the permitting system for PA's state parks and forest causes cachers to prefer areas where a permit is not needed. Even though the permitting system is relatively easy...some people just are not comfortable dealing with state agencies. Don't get me wrong...I think we have a good mix of cache types in my local area right now. It's just I see the cache quality trend slightly going downhill, and my fingers are crossed that it dosn't gain momentum like in nearby areas. Salvelinus

Your idea is cleaver...just too difficult to pull off. Shame on me if this is off-topic, but I just think the commercial cache guidelines should be enforced and/or better clarified. IMO...that is exactly what these caches are. If I owned a business, you can bet there would be a geocache right where my "new" potential customers would be parking. However, in order to keep this on topic, what constitutes a commercial cache has been discussed Here. Your comments about what constitutes a commercial cache should be added to that thread. Salvelinus

I see the same thing in NC Pennsylvania and Western Pennsylvania. "Most" cachers around here look for, and enjoy writing about, their quality experience. They are just not in it for the numbers. Salvelinus ps. The sport dosn't get boring the longer you play...only the caches do. <edit> Added thought

Ever hear of movie reviews? I guess if the reason I cache was for numbers than a cache would just be a cache. But I think its safe to assume that for most cachers, there are some caches that are better than others. Striving for excellence is never a bad thing. Salvelinus

I'm all for this!!!!!! However, it would be a tough decision for GC.com since I would think many cachers would leave the game. But I would pay them triple the current membership cost for a membership if they did! I would also like to see a cache rating system. Anything that could elevate cache quality instead of continually accepting dumbing down caches to get an easier smiley face has my support. BTW...I will be re-signing up for a premium membership next payday. I let mine run out cause the features were of little use to me. With the new ignore and bookmark features, I'm in again! Salvelinus edit: speeling

One of my most recent post for a parking lot cache: I was meeting Polgara near here to find some real caches and she drug me over to this one. Ahhhhh, your classic parking lot cache. We tried to look like employees so people wouldn't wonder what we were doing there. Thank goodness Polgara found it in about 2 seconds, maybe the security cameras didn't notice us much. We both hiked the 3 steps back to our car while we left our marks. I was impressed that there was a pencil to write with. That was nice! Then we had to wait another 20 minutes until employees stopped coming and going before Polgara could returned it. Boy did we get some stupid looks. It was a relief to be finally heading out of there and back toward the hills and coal mines. Thanks for the reminder of why I hate caches like this. Salvelinus This was nothing but a "get your cache numbers up" cache in a parking lot so my log was just a note. I tried to leave subtle hints as to what I thought about it without being rude. It did have a pencil in it so I did find something nice to say! BTW...my log is probably the longest one out of the 42 logged visits since December 1st. What I found most enlightening is that there is a great cache about 5 miles down the road that has had 3 finders (Me, Polgara and her dog) in that same time period. Salvelinus

I couldn't agree more! I'll also add that caches like you mention are only gifts to other geocachers who are playing this game for numbers. For me, I like to hike and explore neat places when geocaching. I also am seeing less and less new opportunities to do that in this hobby. Why is it that those of us who raise these concerns are labled elitists? Salvelinus

I wouldn't want to see what you suggest. Most of the fun of geocaching for me is using maps and other resources to figure all that out on my own. Salvelinus

I have a similar cache to what you are planning, except my version is shorter. I spent much time developing and researching this cache to give the cacher who decides to do this one a eye-opening, historical experience about our local area. It has been my experience that the numbers cachers will not rush out to get your cache...just like they haven't run out to do mine. I have had a few e-mails from these number obsessive cachers telling me they wont do that much work for a cache and only get one smily face. That verified to me that I "did this one right". I have been somewhat able to predict which cachers would do my cache and which ones wouldn't. Those that take the time will be rewarded with an interesting experience as I am sure those that attempt yours will. Also, I'll be willing to bet that the logs about the finders experience will be the best that you will read. Good Luck! Salvelinus

Because it is meaningless, useless and has nothing to do with geocaching. The rankings promote a totally different game favored by a ever-growing number of numbers obsessed individuals. I want nothing to do with that...so I opted out. Salvelinus

Done! Thanks QM

Nowadays, I look at how long they have been caching before I look at their number of finds as a gage of experience. Four years ago, the find count was much more related to experience. Today, one good weekend in a cache heavy area and you can pass my find count easily. See...I still don't need numbers Salvelinus

Just a thought... What would this game be like if you could only see your own statistics on your profile? Salvelinus

You can go to the web page and at the bottom of the page is a link for the owner. He will remove you from the list or change your name to anonymous. Thanks! I see the name, but no link. Salvelinus

Why not develop something and make it an option like the new cache attributes thingy? That way, it would be up to the cache owner to use it or not. I would add it to all my caches immediatly since I would find it much more useful than many of those cache attributes. I would rather have some idea that my (and other) caches were appreciated rather than decipher the "TNLN, thanks for the hide" logs that tell you nothing. This is how I would use it: If the cache gets alot of high ratings its probably a good one. If it gets alot of low ratings, its probably got issues. If it gets mixed reviews, its likely somewhere on the average. This way, I could relatively quickly decide which caches I wanted to focus on first. Who knows, cache quality may even improve! Salvelinus