Salvelinus

That's a major thorofare?! Since I was only in Idaho once before while visiting the Yellowstone area, I guess it could be considered a major thorofare for that state. But, I expected something that looked....less remote. Geeesh, there has to be plenty of better spots to hide that bucket in the vicinity of that bridge. Looks like a beautiful place. Why tie the thing to it? I guess if you want to hide a cache on a bridge...use a micro. Salvelinus

Now I'm really confused, since your GC,com profile doesn't show any cache owned by you that is similar to what the OP describes Did the locationless cache referenced by the OP ever exist here?

Is this a cache that was listed here as a locationless? If so and based on what you describe, my guess is that is has gone away because it doesn't sound anything like Waymarking or geocaching. It sounds like "playing on the internet" for smileys...but maybe I'm missing something. If it was listed here at one time and has been archived, I Sometimes try to remember a user who has logged it before and then look at their user stats in their profile to find the link to it.

Cool!...you really couldn't do anything wrong no matter what you did I agree that once in awhile for a variety of reasons, some of them personal, a "find" is just not worthy of a smiley.

Who said anything about requiring you to "borrow" a kid to use the park? Why would you want to do that anyway? Its a park set up for kids so it is reasonable that an adult who goes there would have a kid with them. On the flip side...why would an adult be hanging around a park developed for kids and not have some along? Thus, probably the rational for enacting the law, which is definitely unfair and stupid but absolutly not exclusve or descriminatory. I know there are legit reasons to let people use the park without requiring having a kid with you, but those arguement should be used to argue against the fairness of the law. Not whether or not it descriminates.

I think in the first situation they returned to stumble upon another group of cachers at the cache signing the log. So the location was revealed. I would log this as a find if I already had a good experience from the cache and wanted to write about it in the log book. Sometimes the adventure getting there is what the cache is all really all about. I hear some of yours are that way! Salvelinus

I think it depends on what motivates you. I believe very few cachers would cry foul if you log a find based on those situations. But, if your really into being successful finding caches without any help and its important for you to comple everything your supposed to do to complete the cache, then you may just want to log using a note and tell about your experience. I have done that myself on occasion. Salvelinus

That law is not exclusionary...stupid, yes. I would think a lawyer would find it difficult to challenge it on those grounds. That women was not excluded from using the park. She just broke the dumb park rules. It would be like claiming your being excluding from using a park because you want to geocache there and they have rules against geocaching in that park. Salvelinus Not quite the same, In the geocaching case you would still be able to enter the park just not to geocahche. In this case they are excluding people that do not have children, and not allowing them to enter the park at all. Agreed....a bad example by me. But that women is still not being excluded from using the park. She would be allowed in there if she brought a kid with her. There is a "reasonable" possibility anyone can comply to the law even if they don't have kids of their own. It may not be a very fair law, but its not descrimination. Maybe this is a better example: In my line of work (see profile), we have portions of streams where you can only fish there if you are using fly-fishing gear and artificial flies. The use of natural bait and other artificial lures is prohibited. Bait and lure fisherman have tried to challenge this in court saying its descrimination against them because they don't own fly-fishing gear. They always lose the case because the law has been judged to have a reasonable possibility that anyone can comply. There is nothing in the law prohibiting anyone from going there, as long as they abide by the laws set for that area. I'm pretty sure the only way it would be exclusionary in legal terms would be if the law stated that single people are not permitted to use the park. Salvelinus Edit to clarify thought

That law is not exclusionary...stupid, yes. I would think a lawyer would find it difficult to challenge it on those grounds. That women was not excluded from using the park. She just broke the dumb park rules. It would be like claiming your being excluding from using a park because you want to geocache there and they have rules against geocaching in that park. Salvelinus

Really? While this is not to second guess my approvers, I have seen several recently approved that are hidden on road bridges. Example 1 Example 2 I think we both would agree these would probably cause little problems since they are both on secondary roads. But where do you draw the line? Maybe the fact that they are micros let them be approved...I dont know. Salvelinus

Looks like black is used in some camo clothing. I own some of this camo and it definitely has black in it. Black is a very legit color to use in a camo patterns and often is. I paint my ammo cans specifically with a rust-inhibiting spray paint. Usually monotone using an earth color (browns or greens). I don't camo them, since I don't believe a cache should be tremendously hard to find by another cacher looking for it. Besides, camo painting takes too darn long! Salvelinus

Ha Ha Been up there exploring numerous times with a fishing rod and canoe. I agree totally! Salvelinus

You can count me as interested! I've had several caches hidden for myself and a select few others to share without being listed on this or any other site. It's not an uncommon practice. Geocaching can exist without GC.com or any other listing site, and for awhile in the beginning...it did. But I am grateful for the job they do to enhance the game. Run you idea by them and see if they will list it on this site. I think you have a good chance they would. Salvelinus

So when does quality become important? While I haven't cached much in most of these areas it occurs to me that I could have my hometown be tops on the list within a week or so...depending on my approvers work load. Salvelinus

Try looking at a USGS topo map. There are tons more roads in areas that you would never see on a US Interstate Atlas. Salvelinus

True...but remoteness may not be a part of either of them. A place dosn't have to be remote to be unexplored and unexploited. Most of Yellowstone National Park is a classic example. Also, very remote places such as the Thorofare River Valley is very remote but often explored. Salvelinus

I think you are correct! I've gone into the Thorofare River via horseback on a fishing/camping trip and our guides told us exactly the same thing. They were very concerned about some road thats proposed for the area and losing their somewhat unique guide business. Salvelinus

I think you should save your money, unless you will be around brown bears. Even if you carry mace, are you going to be able to get to it quick enough next time a bear pokes his head out at you? In some places you need training to use mace, so you don't end up with most of it on yourself. I was in Alaska about 5 years ago and our guide assured us that he had both mace and a .45 mag pistol. The mace was stowed so as not to be within easy reach because its not easy to carry. When I asked him about that he told me that they bring them to make the tourist feel comfy, but if a bear wanted to attack, there is little you can do with mace. Black bears, which you encountered, are overall non-agressive. In very rare circumstances have black bears actually attacted someone, but its a shame that those are what makes the daily news, instead of the thousands of non-agressive bear encounters. Just last night, I spent an hour watching a female bear and her two cubs forage in a dumpster located at a very remote bar in northern PA. It was facinating! I could of watched them longer if I hadn't tried to get closer and alerted her to my presence. She ran those cubs up the nearest tree and did nothing more than stay alert. 20 minutes later, they were all crawling back in the dumpster! There are signs that a bear gives when they are acting agressive. If your concerned, you may want to research it. I know the signs, but its best to learn them on your own so you remember them. Salvelinus

What? My eggs the next morning aren't any good? Salvelinus

Nope...it occurs in the East too. Gettysburg, PA Syracuse, NY Erie, PA Woodbury, NJ Just to mention a few. Salvelinus

Amazing, but isn't this supposed to be the event that sets the example for all others? Kinda the ultimate event for all the "in" cachers? Well, if its any consolation, I attended an event last weekend where 30 plus travel bugs were posted. As of tonight, there is only one left on the page. Sometimes the best cachers are not the ones who post the most or yell the loudest! Salvelinus

Why? Did it occur to you that the fact that so many threads are started about them, there may be a concern about their use? Some of those concerns may be legimate, some may not, but as long as people want to discuss them, I see no problem with having them. Gee...kinda sounds like the attitude I hear about people who like micro caches! What really makes me scratch my head is someone who post to a thread and offers nothing except to complain that it exists. Don't you realize that everytime you do that it moves it to a more prominent location on the forums? If you don't like um...then don't do um? Sound familar? Salvelinus

Yes, variations of the game have occurred and this kind of Urban caching is "fun" to some. To me, It's sort of like those reality series. The original "Survivor" was very cool and had a small and very loyal audience at the beginning. As it gained popularity, the inevitable variations to the original started popping up. Some people love them all, some people pick and choose the ones they like, and some are just plain concerned that the original concept is slowly fading away behind a mirad of offshoots. To be fair, there is something very odd about the people in that town and it probably wasn't the cache's fault. Your post has joggled a similar memory for me. About 10 years ago I was working up there. Part of my job with the Fish and Boat Commission that day was to count fisherman along Sinnamahoning Portage Creek and I had to use binocs to see up and down the stream. The next day, while doing the same thing as the day before, I got a visit from a State Policeman saying he got a call about me stalking the girls softball team who happened to be practicing in the ballfield next to the stream! Both of us had a good laugh! Btw...Nice to meet you earlier this summer! Salvelinus

Maybe not normal behavior but as long as it is within the law it doesn't seem to be a big deal. I used a couple of those to pick up the ladies... I find that just being myself when I geocache and when "picking up the ladies" works the best. Salvelinus

I'm sure Wal-mart, Subway, McDonalds, Cracker Barrel, etc...not to mention all the local businesses where there is a cache in their parking lot, have made a buck or two because of geocaching. Salvelinus