FraenCache

Simply put: I find them boring an stopped moving and logging them ... Again, what´s the sense behind logging, for example on a Stargate Coin Site, when the real coin is in some Collection and all others get to see a blank piece of aluminum? IMO a cache should be some kind of "treasurechest" with some sort of "preacious" things to find in there. The reality sadly is that the find itself is the only excitement, 90% of the "swag" (at least in my area) is broken plastic figure crap. There´s way more excitement about finding a real coin ... If a coin gets lost, why don´t let it die? What´s gone is gone. Sad but true. What´s the excitement of bringing a copy on the road continuing a travel it hasen´t done? In the end, sure, do what you like. Really. I just wondered and wanted to know what people think about it. Not more not less. And I wouldn´t quit caching because of this. Also I got three stunning coins at home, which I never will send out. And I never would activate them. Why should I, when they never leave my home? They´re no Travel items anymore. They´re collected. One of them I bought twice, one to keep an one to let go. People should be able to find precious things. Just for the wow effect ... That´s all I´m saying. You've got a weird double standard with your desire only to see real coins, yet not being willing to set free your own. I hope you see that. When I buy a trackable, I'm more interested in the tracking number and the ability to share that number. The medium through which I do it is usually secondary. If I share that number with you, you get proof of it through your trackables history page, and that's the mark that I enjoy leaving. Almost as much as I enjoy the mark that you leave on my trackables history page. All of this being said, I've never released a proxy coin. I've always released the actual coins. But I think it shows an odd sense of entitlement for you to be so judgmental towards people for not sending out trackables in the form that you wish to see them in. Nobody HAS to send out anything, and we should all be grateful for the fact that anyone sends out anything that cost them upwards of $10, expecting nothing in return, even if it is just a copy. Would you honestly prefer no trackables over proxies? Ok, maybe you should read carefully. First, where is this so called double standard? I got one coin on the road, one I bought twice, 1st in my inventory to send it out when I find the right cache to start and 2nd to keep and two others that I would keep. This makes 2 on 3. I really can´t see a double standard there. Second, when it comes to Geocoins (not Travelbugs!) the excitement about it IMO is to hold a beatiful piece of art in hands. With all its weight, its shininess, its structure etc. It´s some sort of a great physical experience. And psychological, you found something precious! Heeey, well done! ... You may agree, that a laminated piece of paper can´t match this experience by any means. I´m talking about keeping VALUE in the game, and I don´t talk about money here. AGAIN, that´s about coins NOT TBs. If you more enjoy a tiny graphic shown in your account, well, ok. I must agree, I´m not in any position to judge how people act with theyr property. Let´s say I just intended to give suggestions. And I am grateful for the invention of trackables. BUT, I for myself enjoy also the physical component of a well designed and manufactured coin. And I´m participating though I´m unemployed at the moment. So I shure can tell about nominal value of a coin. I may change my opinion on proxys maybe, if I will loose several coins in future, but at the moment, I think I´m still a bit idealistic as a beginner. Who knows. I´d like to apologize, if my contribution was a little bit to harsh here and there. It´s not my intention to tell people how they shall act. I enjoy the hunt and find of a cache far the most, that´s clear, but the second component still is the swag and stuff you´re able to find and trade. Sadly swag most of the time is just things, I´d put in a litter, not a cache. And thats the point, where a part of the fun gets lost. That´s all I´m talking about.

Thank God, finally ONE person thinking the same like me ... You´re speaking right out of my heart. There´s nothing more to say ...

Also, I think, a graphic of a row of 10 full stars would look odd and would be very difficult to read right at one glimpse. Fife stars with halfes are better and faster to understand.

Simply put: I find them boring an stopped moving and logging them ... Again, what´s the sense behind logging, for example on a Stargate Coin Site, when the real coin is in some Collection and all others get to see a blank piece of aluminum? IMO a cache should be some kind of "treasurechest" with some sort of "preacious" things to find in there. The reality sadly is that the find itself is the only excitement, 90% of the "swag" (at least in my area) is broken plastic figure crap. There´s way more excitement about finding a real coin ... If a coin gets lost, why don´t let it die? What´s gone is gone. Sad but true. What´s the excitement of bringing a copy on the road continuing a travel it hasen´t done? In the end, sure, do what you like. Really. I just wondered and wanted to know what people think about it. Not more not less. And I wouldn´t quit caching because of this. Also I got three stunning coins at home, which I never will send out. And I never would activate them. Why should I, when they never leave my home? They´re no Travel items anymore. They´re collected. One of them I bought twice, one to keep an one to let go. People should be able to find precious things. Just for the wow effect ... That´s all I´m saying.

Jesus ... Some people must be really bored ... I haven´t had this kind of problem, but another thing that annoyes me is, when people place objects like branches or piles of stones on or around the hideout ... What do they think? Go out and hide your own ... What brings me to an idea. Maybe every member should be "forced" to hide at least one cache themselfs after a particular number of finds. Just to get to know, how it feels as a cacheowner ... Maybe this would cause a little bit more appreciation by one or another ...

Mine was find #1. It changed my life. Everything else is just plain statistics ...

I was on my bike, starting a tour of planned 7 to 8 caches on saturday. After finding the first and exploring the location further more, I went back on my bike towards number 2. It was a small multi with some sort of riddle at stage 2, just bevor the final. As I was standing there preparing to solve the coordinates for the final, a bunch of friends appeared on theyr bikes as well, coming from a small village nearby where they hit the beergarden to have a "cool blonde". This was a great coincidence, couse it was some kilometers away from where we all live and inbetween like nothing. So, what you want to do, being on your own and meeting some friends on a fun tour. I turned the gps off, joined them and we stopped at 2 more beergardens on our further (and not too tiring) ride, enjoied the sun and company and talked about the important (and some unimportant) things of life. I also had some beer, some bratwurst and a good bunch of laughs ... How good can a Saturday afternoon evolve?!

Well, that´s a good point, too. Shure it´s one of the main things, to take part in the travel history of an item. What makes me sad is, when there is a nice detailed webpage with photo and description for the real coin and a story behind its name and apperance and all you find is a lame item whith no connection to the whole thing. Then I´m asking ... why ...

well, if they deleted the cache only because it said "McD coupon" as a FTF prize, that´s realy too ruff. And even more unacceptable when the listing was like 5 years old. They could have told the owner to delete the company name from the listing and everything would be fine. On the other hand, I don´t think they should relax the rules about naming companies. I think it is important to have all these advertisment stuff closed out. There is so much advertisement around us every day, I don´t need it here too ...

Maybe it´s for a psychological reason. Things should start with a full number. I wouldn´t want to leave the house to make a half thing ...

In last time, I found several Geocoin-Copys lying in some caches. I really wonder what´s the point about that. Honestly, if someone wants to collect coins, collect them, but well, then this coin CAN´T be on tour. That´s what collecting means. If it´s because of fear of the coin getting muggled, I´d say then one shouldn´t buy trackable items. It makes definatly no sense (to me), sending out a boring aluminum plate with the code of a geocoin engraved on it. I´d go that far to say, people doing so are destroing the game in some way. Or at least taking the fun out of it. Imagine, you see a listing which has a really nice GC in it´s inventory. You want to see it for real and go on your bike and ride a few kilometers/miles to get it. But when you´re at the cache, it turns out as a lame copy. This is so boring ... If you buy trackable items, everyone should be aware of the fact, that the item could get lost. If you don´t want to loose stuff, you shouldn´t take part in a game sending stuff out in the world. What I want to say is, there is nothing in geocaching like finding a really nice good looking coin. Finding a worthless aluminum plate with a crappy hand carved code on it can´t definatly beat that feeling. But maybe in times of crappy broken plastic objects as so called "swag" it´s just another step, taking the last interesting things out of the game, replacing them by unsightly pieces of scrap. I got one coin out there. I know, it could get lost. But everytime I read about someone who was glad to find it and liked it, it makes me smile. Because it makes me feel like sending a piece of joy out in the world. What´s your opinion about that? Are you a COLLECTOR or a FINDER?

Don´t know, I think I´d keep the TB until the owner replys. If he doesn´t it would mean, he doesn´t care anymore so it would also make no sense anymore to let his TB travel around. Attatching a new Object would make no sense at all in my opinion ...

I think it´s the best way to go caching. The natural experience starts right when you leave the door and it´s so good for your body, your mind AND the environment! I got 40 finds now, and every single one was done by bike. I hope I can keep that up ...

Hey! Looks good! Gonna stay in Edinburgh for one year soon ... So some of them will be on my list soon, too ... Definatly need to get me a nice bike there ...

Some areal fews here are realy amazing! In my area, it´s still not so dense, but that keeps me more fit. In the moment I´m doing bike tours of 30+ kilometers recently to get to the interesting spots. And I noticed that it´s just good for me. Car caching stinks! This is a part of Franconia, northern Bavaria.

To put some tinder back in the discussion about numbers, I just had to look at my GC Homepage. It says: There are 1,452,094 active geocaches and over 5 million geocachers worldwide. So Mr. sword fern was pretty right with at least this number. So I think, it´s almost rediculous to talk about 100.000 PMs ... Well, some americans always seem to tend to forget, that there are a bit MORE countrys spread over that beautiful planet ... and things DON´T happen exclusively in the great US nowadays. Ok, some do, but this would be off topic ... On the other hand, I agree that Premiums aren´t the biggest part. But 5 million people tend to CONSUME STUFF ... Merchendising isn´t just a funny joke out of Spaceballs ... All in all, yes, it may cost to keep an international gaming platform running but it must also cost a fortune to keep something like facebook running and they DON´T sell merch (are they?) or PMs and THOUGH they are one of the worlds most valuable companies meanwhile ... think about that ... Anyways ... Big ups to the rich or poor folks from GC for providing a game that changed my life! LOVE!

Thumbs up, totally agree ...

I totally agree. It makes me more thinking about you guys "hunting" some weirdos, than being concerned about those weirdos, how it might be fun for them posting finds they actually didn´t even search. Comeon, it´s a game. Who cares if one out of a thousand is cheating? If it´s theyr fun to only log finds instead of going out and search caches that may only be sad to me but has no effect on me how I play the game. So, just relax, let them "level up" theyr imaginary sad stats and enjoy hunting caches in nature ... There are definatly more serious things in the world to be concerned about ... Well, I don't expect everyone to read my post to this thread carefully, or even know about the incident I'm talking about. But there was this retired guy named Oculus Prime about 2 years ago. And it wasn't just Hawaii, this guy did drive-by's all over the U.S. and Canada. I believe he really was a full-time RV'er, he was just logging every cache he drove within a few miles of. The Frog wiped out all his finds after a couple of months. So people all over the country talked about this when he hit their area. You can still Google his name and "Geocaching" and find several regional Geocaching message board threads about him. So GeeGeoBee, you can now "begin to imagine being so concerned as to get together with several other people to check up on them". I mean some of you are free to rant all day with "it doesn't affect me", and "there are more important things to be concerned about", but it has been shown that people notice chronic cheating, discuss it amongst themselves, and Groundspeak takes action. So if it bothers you that cache owners do this, please ignore it, it doesn't affect you. Well, as #1 cache finder in the world (!!! big ups, really), I can imagine you would be concerned about someone comin along and cheating away your precious title. Sorry, I´m cruel here but I really can´t understand why everything always must have someone who´s the best in in it and standing above each other and screaming it out in the world ... When this guy has the time and money to drive across the country and log his way ... wow, he gets respect from me, too. The thing is, he wouldn´t destroy geocaching through that. I never heard of him ... well, I think he never was in Germany though ... The question to me is, did the guys from Grundspeak delete him or his finds because they saw a certain threat to theyr game or because so many people startet to moan about somebody "breaking the noble rules" ... maybe he just liked the immense attention he was getting ... which means a problem was lately created by those, who wanted to "solve" it. What I want to say is, one who plays unfair shouldn´t be able to upset a whole community. What is wrong here? A lag of selfconfidence? Just live and let live. And don´t be always so tight with being nuber one or getting the most or having more than the others or being the most beautifull or the most popular ... Where has it brought us jet? To paradise? Don´t think so ... If the "good ones" wouldn´t always be such a pain in the a***, the cheaters wouldn´t have half the fun ... Nuff said. Well, big misunderstanding there, my #1 cache finder in the world title is a complete joke. I am the # 1 cache finder in the world (with about 45 finds) on an extemely obscure alternative Geocaching website. As a matter of fact, it's more of a GPS games website (hence the name), that accepts Geocache listings just for the heck of it. That "forum title" has been there for a while, time for a new fresh one, I think. I'm quite sure Groundspeak stepped in during the Oculus Prime incident because of the moaning, as you say, not the threat to the game. There have also been a few more minor armchair logging incidents where they have stepped in. In those minor cases, I'm sure it's just people looking for attention, or to see how long it takes to get caught. Sorry, I guess I'll just never be a "live and let live, man" kinda guy. I was in the military for 22 years, what can I say. (!OFF TOPIC!) Hey Mr. Yuck, first of all, I´d like to say SORRY for my harsh reply. Sometimes I´m able to write myself into kind of a "rage" ... Specially if I don´t get the point behind certain discussions. Like here. I was really surprised about your calm reply, I appreciate that. And I learnd a new term (armchair logging), thanks for that! Back to the TOPIC and to everyone else: I´d like to repeat, I still don´t really get the point behind that at all. We´re placing rubbermaid or whatelse boxes in nature for no reason except providing a fun game to other people. So where´s the problem if some single persons don´t understand how to play it. There are still a majority of people doing it "right" and everything else doesn´t affect the game at all ... How can anybody be so curious about someone elses statistics???!!! Realy, thats way more sad than any cheater could ever be ... I got three boxes out there as well and I couldn´t IMAGINE how I should check, if every online log matches the logbooks ... My only worrys are that they don´t get stolen by some muggles or being destroyed or so. THAT would really affect the game. .......

I'm just curious... someone dropped a travel bug in a cache, and their online log was deleted because they didn't sign the physical log? I know some people are really sticklers, but c'mon... they dropped the TB. They obviously found the cache. I can't imagine deleting a log under those circumstances. Well, nevertheless someone broke "THE RULES", you know ...

I totally agree. It makes me more thinking about you guys "hunting" some weirdos, than being concerned about those weirdos, how it might be fun for them posting finds they actually didn´t even search. Comeon, it´s a game. Who cares if one out of a thousand is cheating? If it´s theyr fun to only log finds instead of going out and search caches that may only be sad to me but has no effect on me how I play the game. So, just relax, let them "level up" theyr imaginary sad stats and enjoy hunting caches in nature ... There are definatly more serious things in the world to be concerned about ... Well, I don't expect everyone to read my post to this thread carefully, or even know about the incident I'm talking about. But there was this retired guy named Oculus Prime about 2 years ago. And it wasn't just Hawaii, this guy did drive-by's all over the U.S. and Canada. I believe he really was a full-time RV'er, he was just logging every cache he drove within a few miles of. The Frog wiped out all his finds after a couple of months. So people all over the country talked about this when he hit their area. You can still Google his name and "Geocaching" and find several regional Geocaching message board threads about him. So GeeGeoBee, you can now "begin to imagine being so concerned as to get together with several other people to check up on them". I mean some of you are free to rant all day with "it doesn't affect me", and "there are more important things to be concerned about", but it has been shown that people notice chronic cheating, discuss it amongst themselves, and Groundspeak takes action. So if it bothers you that cache owners do this, please ignore it, it doesn't affect you. Well, as #1 cache finder in the world (!!! big ups, really), I can imagine you would be concerned about someone comin along and cheating away your precious title. Sorry, I´m cruel here but I really can´t understand why everything always must have someone who´s the best in in it and standing above each other and screaming it out in the world ... When this guy has the time and money to drive across the country and log his way ... wow, he gets respect from me, too. The thing is, he wouldn´t destroy geocaching through that. I never heard of him ... well, I think he never was in Germany though ... The question to me is, did the guys from Grundspeak delete him or his finds because they saw a certain threat to theyr game or because so many people startet to moan about somebody "breaking the noble rules" ... maybe he just liked the immense attention he was getting ... which means a problem was lately created by those, who wanted to "solve" it. What I want to say is, one who plays unfair shouldn´t be able to upset a whole community. What is wrong here? A lag of selfconfidence? Just live and let live. And don´t be always so tight with being nuber one or getting the most or having more than the others or being the most beautifull or the most popular ... Where has it brought us jet? To paradise? Don´t think so ... If the "good ones" wouldn´t always be such a pain in the a***, the cheaters wouldn´t have half the fun ... Nuff said.

Wow! You bet it is!! I have never seen anything quite like that!! Haha, that must be some sort of super slow eco-copier ... Amazing!

pffff ... 80% of these things are so mean ... but what fun if you finally find one of these ... Great!

um ... testing

Hey there! May I join with my thougts? Well, I will anyways ... I don´t think a (cheap) wooden chest would even survive long during summer ... fog in the mornigs or rainy days will probably provide enough dampness to make it soak, expand and fall apart in a few weeks if places without any protection. Maybe you can find a big enough "pre-container" to place it inside. (But please, no plastic bag ... Makes me always sad when I find things wrapped in plastic bags somewhere outside ... ) This (additional box) might be not the most beautiful solution, but the one that keeps your little chest at a good state over a long period. On the other hand, I´ve made the experience that sadly a lot of cachers aren´t treating the boxes and locations with regard. So placing it safe from natural influences doesn´t mean it will be save and enduring at all ... But I really like the idea how you described it and was thinking about "treasure chests" for myself before. It´s your descision and I´m sure, if you place it you will cause some happy faces by one or another finder ...

I also think, what you´re actually getting is pretty much accurate enough. See, even if you get the perfect coordinates on a good day out, it doesn´t mean that every cacher will get them accurate every time, too. There naturally will be logs over time that say your coordinates are pretty much off ... To be honest, I don´t care about those ... Control your coordinates twice or three times if you want, think about a good hint and place your boxes. Thats pretty much everything reasonable you can do ... It´s not like you´re hiding the national security plans ... It´s just a game ...