Greenjeens

quote:Originally posted by Jamie Z:Just about two hours ago I awoke from a nap whereby I had a dream that some girl in school had done a similar thing to me. Except instead of handing me a slip of paper, she gave me the whole GPS with a GOTO already programmed. It was a SporTrak Pro, if I remember correctly. LOL! Now there's a man's fantasy. She gives you a the GPS too! "There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night. Anything that intends you harm... will stalk you silently."

quote:Originally posted by Cavess:Now as to punishing and fining those responsible for the damage. The caving community worked very hard to have the Federal Cave Resource Protection Act passed by congress in 1988. This law makes it a felony, with fines, against those who damage significant caves on Federal lands. The act also states that "the specific location of a significant cave may not be made available to the public". This includes GPS coordinates. For clarification, confideniality applies ONLY to Federal Agencies not revealing the location of caves, like not listing them on maps and brochures. This has nothing to do with wht the public shares or discusses. Correct? Don't you think the ommission, in the context of GPS coords, is likely to inflame and mislead? However, dissemination of data, wether from federal or private databases would have the same effect! I assume every map-maker and guide book writer has been contacted with a similar plea to withold location info? "Sec. 5. CONFIDENTIALITY OF INFORMATION CONCERNING NATURE AND LOCATION OF SIGNIFICANT CAVES. (a) IN GENERAL.Information concerning the specific location of any significant cave may not be made available to the public under section 552 of title 5, United States Code" As for the Punishment of lawbreakers and vandals. The few rangers are spread out across lots of territory. I seldom encounter any. If the activities are done at night, off-season, and in more remote areas, the odds of catching anyone is miniscule. As to the the caches already in significant caves. Proving cachers created direct or indirect damage would be difficult to prove. I haven't seen much evidence that a cache/cave has created harm? However, any damage that did occur would cast a cloud of suspicion on the whole geocaching group. Interesting issue concerning public and personal responsibility. Jeez, who wants to get blamed unfairly? I see the value of secrecy and no caches in fragile caves... it's just the proactive agenda, with the focus on the visual geocaching group, that takes thinking through. --------- Greenjeens "There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night. Anything that intends you harm... will stalk you silently."

quote:Originally posted by sbukosky:Going down the list of messages, I have yet to see any geocache vs cave damage example. What does a bunch of kids vandalizing a cave have to do with geocaching? (Rambling Rant to Follow) GPS is a powerful tool for sharing location data and Geocaching is a very open book for anyone. Qualifications and peer review are nonexistant. I think Cavers along with land managers, park rangers and others are suddenly faced with an unknowable, yet organized group creating a new land use. Imagining the worst, projecting it into the future. I would have to agree that the odds of a little damage caused by a "green" geocacher are likely, but hardly an ecological disaster. Too bad a course or some mentoring couldn't proceed every new geocacher's first hunt and ESPECIALLY the placing of caches. I've read the pojected fears... What if civil war walls were rearranged to hide caches? What if cache coordinates brought vandals to archeological sites? What if "bad people" search our geocaching site for pristine cave's to loot? What if winged monkeys started flying out of my button? OK, some of these what ifs are more probable than others:-) More likely, one of the Cub Scouts, who went on an organized cave exploration, tells his loser, alcoholic, cousin about this cool place to go and the party starts. Did the scout leave a log, a cache, a trail of dates and comments? No. Will anyone ever know the events that led up to this cave getting trashed? Probably not. It's playing the odds, the more "outsiders" who know of a place, the greater the risk for spoiling...look at North and South America...jeez, that's the history of the world. I wonder if anyone tried to ban MAPS for the same reasons? Without progress though, we would all be living in... caves...hummm? Anyway, I think cavers just work by preferring to personally judge who is respectful of fragile environments and who is ready to explore safely. IMO, they are trying to nip in the bud the creation of another database of caves, with a future potential for misuse. Yes, anyone with a GPS in hand who logs or finds a cave cache is suspect, easily tracked and potentially guilty of inappropriately sharing secrets, even if it has not happened yet. Interesting! ---------- Greenjeens "There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night. Anything that intends you harm... will stalk you silently."

Geocachers, a MUST read thread... http://www.caves.org/cgi-bin/ubbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000027 Good thread, ouch! Seems Geocachers will be directly responsible for leading a hoard of spray painting, bat killing, Beavis and Buttheaded vandals, just looking for pristine caves to ransack and pee in. It's possible! Cavers don't want sensitive cave locations posted on the internet, they fear injuries, vandalism and denied access will result. While I think it's a bit of an overeaction, and geocachers make a convenient and locatable target, I would defer to their wishes and look at things from their point of view. It was very difficult for me to get the cavers motivation, since I'm claustrophobic and damp, cold, dark holes, filled with rabid bats are not very appealing. One of my circle DIED from rabies, likely from caving:-( Then I realized.. I HAVE a cave. Well, it's one of those sunny ones, on a hill, with a beautiful sheltered view. I've been maintaining it for nearly 20 years, picking up garbage, scraping candle wax, erasing the graffiti carved into the soft rock. I was really hurt and angry when someone broke the opening wider. Anyway, I would never post the location of this "cave" on the internet, enough kids go there already and get drunk, make a fire and throw bottles off the cliff. From what I gather, this cave is not fragile or rare at all, but I'm pretty attached to it not getting more trashed. AFAIK, the coordinates never were on the internet and look what happened! I think it would help relations if geocachers agreed to not reveal coords publicly about sensitive caves. Give us a few non fragile ones to enjoy, as an intro, but we should STOP freaking the cave community out. Let the perception of blame go to the real vandals and culprits. After all, cavers like to find hidden places as well, problem is you can't just archive a cave and create another when the worst happens. Whatever the caving community is, they have been around a long time, spending a great deal of energy, politically, scientifically and technically, on a very limited and unique resource. As far as the freedom to go anywhere and discover anything on public land, I agree with Vader, in principle. To share something wonderful with the uninitiated is good. Glad I know more about caves, but I can understand the fear of potential abuses. The fear of loss is real for cavers who seem to have a long history of obstacles, and a tenous future. The highway is public but you need a license to drive. The sidewalk is free but try walking down your street without clothes. If anyone is really interested in caves maybe they will recognize the value of an experienced guide. Caves have always been mysterious, secret and forbidden places to the uninitiated... on many levels....seems they still are. ---------- Greenjeens "There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night. Anything that intends you harm... will stalk you silently."

quote:Originally posted by worldtraveler:What's the worst that could happen? I might write something really stupid or inflammatory here or on a cache log, and another cacher might mistakenly attribute it to "World Traveler". Oh well... Worldtraveler All my stupid posts and flames were simply a way to mark territory, so no one would want to be mistaken for GreejEEns! "There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night. Anything that intends you harm... will stalk you silently."

Any good suggestions to carry out sharp chunks of broken glass? It seems to cut through baggies after a while, especially when jammed into a pack. Anyone else ever pick up a bottle or can and have some big spider or centipede crawl out later into the backpack? I try to seal up carry out trash because of the critters. "There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night. Anything that intends you harm... will stalk you silently."

quote:Originally posted by roasteroo:Plus, picking up litter is a better excuse then geocaching, its self explanitory, unlike geochahcing. I rouses less suspision. Gives you some cover. And if you dress waay down and mumble to yourself while picking up trash and cigarette buts... anyone else around will quickly leave the area. Just make sure they don't see the GPSr or you'll look REALLY suspicious! "There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night. Anything that intends you harm... will stalk you silently."

"Mr. Greenjeans" was a sidekick of Captain Kangaroo, a morning kids show host in the 50's and 60's. Mr. Greenjeans was this wierd, crotchety, farmer character as I remember. There wasn't much else to watch in the morning as a kid. Never made any connection to the name "green jeans" until I saw the program in my adult life... on a COLOR TV. The guy had GREEN JEENS! I was floored, what a revelation! I had never got the relationship due to B&W TV. So... Greenjeens is my alter ego, country cousin character. He doesn't wear green overalls, but often gets green grass stained pants, while out the the woods and pastures, while geocaching or hiking. "There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night. Anything that intends you harm... will stalk you silently." [This message was edited by Greenjeens on December 29, 2002 at 02:11 AM.]

I don't usually pay attention to the ratings. Decided to give this thread 5 stars for those of you who offer kind, humourous and brilliantly insightful responses.... - - - OK, mostly I just wanted to test out the rating process. ---------- Greenjeens "There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night. Anything that intends you harm... will stalk you silently."

A bunch of earthquakes occured nearby with the epicenter of 6.6 miles west of the "Dead Cow". I felt the three major Quakes strongly! Apparently a new fault has become active, running east to west. Returned to Las Trampas today looking for quake damage and getting better coords with an external antenna. Appears a large sandstone boulder has cracked and fallen. Surprise, ran into another bull (farmer feeds hay near shortcut). No kidding, he looks at me, his penis extends, and I'm thinking... oh boy, now what.... he takes a pee and then after I pass, slowly walks on, crapping away. The meaning was clear. USGS Earthquake Hazards Program-Latest Earthquakes Address:http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqinthenews/nc40138528/index.html CISN: San Ramon Swarm Address:http://www.cisn.org/special/evt.02.11.24/ Details (snipped) November 26, 04:38 PST: An ML 3.7. The automatic systems have located over 50 events in this swarm, with 8 over magnitude 2.5. November 25, The swarm began with a magnitude 3.9 November 24, a magnitude of 3.8 (ML) and third event of ML 3.5 occurred Monday morning, November 25th, at 10:22 AM. ------- Greenjeens "There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night. Anything that intends you harm... will stalk you silently."

quote:Originally posted by Firefishe:*shudder* It still gives me goose pimples just thinking about it. You tell it so well, I can just about "see" the imagery in my head! I appreciate your literary imagery of the native-american hunter and hunted theme. Very intense! Tell me, greenjeans...have you perhaps considered doing a sage and drum ritual to see if it might alleviate the "feeling" of the area? If you go ahead and do this, please let me know of the outcome, I'd be highly interested. Have not worked on the novel much to date, but reading this thread again stirs up the imagery I've had when I first thought of the idea. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again for the update! []. If I ever get out that way, I'm a'lookin' ya up for some "spooky" cachin'! Best regards, Firefishe http://groups.yahoo.com/group/migo/ Nothing like an active imagination to keep those long hikes in the woods exciting:-) Throw in a few close encounters with rattlesnakes, wild boar, coyotes, mountain lions, black bear, rabid bats, skunks, bulls, horses, wild turkeys and it's Fun Fun Fun! It's happend so often, I'm getting a bit anxious about what kind of animal is going to cross my path next. This week a bat almost flew into my face, jeez years of watching bats and this one came _very_ close. One tiny scratch and its Rabies Vaccine time, oh boy. Last month it was a skunk stamping as I walked by. I omitted some background to this story... years ago... I was cutting through this darkened bay forest valley nearby and encountered a rather large black bull in the woods. Well, it started walking towards me, not running but closing the distance, and it just kept comming and comming... Very scary, all alone in this forest and this large animal just keeps comming... I finally jumped into a gully, with very deep V sloping walls and scrambled up the other side, figuring the steep slope would stop the beast. It worked, but I always keep an eye out for rogue bulls, especially in the forested areas, where there is less visibility. Sage and drum rituals are not my area of expertise, and I'm not sure there is really anything in those woods that needs to be cleared/changed, other than in my own space. Sometimes we only play a small walk in cameo, and are not the major characters on the stage. However, plenty of wild sage grows nearby and I know where to get a piece of black cowhide:-) I imagine the cow carcass has gone beyond the maggoty-yucky stage. Ever listened to the sound of thousands maggots eating/squirming in a "juicy" carcass? Anyway...maybe just a simple sage and LOG drumming ritual then. Never put all the Indian/hunting pieces together (including fictional accounts) until this thread. Met a man in his 60's who has hunted deer in this area, before it became a park. I assume that early hunters already performed some kind of appropriate ritual as part of their hunt. Some "real" native americans have cautioned... to talk about the spirits, is to invite them... something to think about. ---------- Greenjeens "There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night. Anything that intends you harm will stalk you silently." [This message was edited by Greenjeens on November 25, 2002 at 04:28 AM.]

quote:Originally posted by Firefishe: quote:Originally posted by Greenjeens: If it would be politic to do so, can you give a general location for this site please? Sure, it's in a place called Las Trampas, "the Traps" in spanish. Supposedly named after the Ohlone Indian tribe's practice of either, trapping deer and elk by driving them into the steep box canyons or by setting traps in the chapparal to catch elk. I'ts located within about .3 miles, up the hill SW from this cache, IIRC. Cache: (GC3F9) Elderberry Ramble Something else creepy happened nearby... I take this shortcut through a forested gully and late one afternoon I saw this big black cow, just standing very still in the woods. As I approach it didn't move, so I made some noise and clapped my hands. That's odd I thought.... Slowly moving closer, noticing it was not moving at all.... but it was still kneeling UPRIGHT. Well, the eyes sockets were empty and I noticed some entrails on the ground at the rear. It was quite dead, but propped up, between a couple of trees, giving the impression it was standing. The carcass has slumped more, 9 months later, but still upright...wierd. Kind of use to that dead cow standing there by now. But for weeks last winter, whenever I took that shortcut, there would be the rustle of a buzzards wings in the darkened forest, rising up through the canopy as I approached.... Especially creepy, coming back alone at night that way, not sure if I was going to walk right into that rotting cow and whatever was feeding on it. So I kept the coords.... "Sentinal Cow" N3748.475' W12203.250 Wouldn't that make a strange cache? A micro in the eye socket. ---------- Greenjeens Hi, Greenjeens. Nice to hear back from you :-) This one left me a bit shuddery. One of those "wierder than fiction" types of tales. The subject line of this post reads "Genius Loci," which is a latin phrase meaning "sprit of a place, ...the place, etc., and also pertains to a guardian spirit of a place or location. That cow kneeling upright (can you possibly take a pic or draw this thing for me?) sounds like a novel I'm working on. I'm using the Genius Loci theme, and combining it to make a spooky geocaching story. I can just see it now... Cow ambles into woods. Cow walks between two trees (aren't boves dumb like that? ), and gets stuck. Cow moos until the...umm...cows come home, but can't be helped. Night falls and the resident Genius Loci becomes active and sucks out the cows innards through the eye sockets! *Boo* Warm regards, Firefishe P.S. If you have anything to add to my twisted version of this story, perhaps we could add some here and there...and keep it a running tale . Just a suggestion. P.P.S. Looking forward to the pic. ]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/migo/ I just went back by the "Sentinal Cow" a couple of days ago. It's amazing how well the skin is holding on, still looks very cow-ish. The head is still between the trees...not caught, just balanced. Sorry, no camera. The effect was much better when the cow was still "standing" taller. As far as the "story" goes, I'd never contemplated how this area was used to trap and hunt terrified animals for so long, and how similar that panic feeling might be trying to climb up that hillside where the fleas were encountered? And then there is the cow apparently "trapped" in the trees. Some people believe intense emotions/violence get imprinted on a location. There certainly was the intensity of "the hunt" in this area, by Native Americans, noted by the early Mexicans who created vast ranches. Then again..... Maybe a tragic and untimely end came to the last native american "ghost hunter" at the hands of cruel Mexican Bandits, who hid out in these canyons. Caught and left to die in his own elk trap. The place still thrills, comming alive through the terror and pulse pounding blood flush of panic from both man and beast... those who innocently venture into this ancient trap. A Native American's earthbound spirit awaits a simple acknowledgment of his own passing and ceremony of sage smoke and hide drumming to release skyward his earthbound ghost. The last of his once proud tribe, no one was left to guide this troubled spirit over, so it wanders lost at "The Traps". Trying to make contact, through a story without words, a frightful story of pain, cruelty and having been left behind... Greenjeens "There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night. Anything that intends you harm will stalk you silently."

After breaking small branches (POISON OAK) around caches, don't touch privates while peeing. Gaiters really do keep stickers and rocks out of shoes/boots. Bring a flashight and a small spare. Bring a warm hat and shell for rapid weather changes. Using a local map and the distance to the cache, to locate the correct trail, is a lot smarter than just following that little arrow on the GPSr, over hill and dale.

I totally agree on no food, however I recently ran into an ammo can cache with an Emergen-C sealed plasticized foil pouch, and really appreciated the electrolyte drink, mixing it with my water. I would not mind this drink powder in my own cache. Have used this stuff at home for years and the pouch is sealed very well. Anyone familiar with Emergen-C and have a good reason not to make the exception? ------ David

If it would be politic to do so, can you give a general location for this site please? Sure, it's in a place called Las Trampas, "the Traps" in spanish. Supposedly named after the Ohlone Indian tribe's practice of either, trapping deer and elk by driving them into the steep box canyons or by setting traps in the chapparal to catch elk. I'ts located within about .3 miles, up the hill SW from this cache, IIRC. Cache: (GC3F9) Elderberry Ramble Something else creepy happened nearby... I take this shortcut through a forested gully and late one afternoon I saw this big black cow, just standing very still in the woods. As I approach it didn't move, so I made some noise and clapped my hands. That's odd I thought.... Slowly moving closer, noticing it was not moving at all.... but it was still kneeling UPRIGHT. Well, the eyes sockets were empty and I noticed some entrails on the ground at the rear. It was quite dead, but propped up, between a couple of trees, giving the impression it was standing. The carcass has slumped more, 9 months later, but still upright...wierd. Kind of use to that dead cow standing there by now. But for weeks last winter, whenever I took that shortcut, there would be the rustle of a buzzards wings in the darkened forest, rising up through the canopy as I approached.... Especially creepy, coming back alone at night that way, not sure if I was going to walk right into that rotting cow and whatever was feeding on it. So I kept the coords.... "Sentinal Cow" N3748.475' W12203.250 Wouldn't that make a strange cache? A micro in the eye socket. ---------- Greenjeens

Ok I've got one. I always hiked out past this grove of Bay trees on a steep hillside in an isolated spot. I always got this creepy feeling and sensed a presence. There was just "something" about this dark grove that caught my attention and I would often stop and ponder this unusual feeling whenever I passed. Since it was on a very steep hillside with no trails, I avoided an exploration, until one day, out hiking alone I got up the nerve to walk into this forboding grove, and face whatever was there..... The dirt was unusually soft and untracked, where the Bays trees had gently dripped dew, on the barren forest floor, undisturbed for years. I trudged uphill, sinking into the powdery slope, overcomming a increasingly apprehensive panic, but breathing hard with a the determined effort to make an entrance, into that place that had haunted my imagination for years... Then my legs began to crawl... Looking down there were SWARMS of FLEAS on my legs! I started picking them off. The vermin were kind of groggy, but comming to life. I had never seen so many fleas on my legs before! Freaked me out! I briefly looked around and saw only barren earth, on an eastern slope, covered with tall Bay trees, nothing of note and then quickly left down the hill with my skin crawling. Guess that's what was there... fleas, maybe they were just the greeting party.... I never went back. ----- Greenjeens

quote:Is that a good price? Also, is this a good reliable unit to get or is it overkill?Also, will this software navigate for me when I am driving...ie help me find my destination? What accesories might I need to buy? Ie, a cable to hook up to the PC? Car cigarette lighter adapter? carrying case? Can't comment on the Magellan, but they are highly regarded. Make sure and figure cost of accessories and maps. I would tend to buy a better unit and then find less expensive aftermarket extras like on ebay, to keep cost down. Garmin's price's are expensive for the extras. THE unit to get, for combo turn by turn auto routing/geocaching, appears to be the Garmin V. It comes in a deluxe package that includes most cables and maps. It's reported to be a pretty good comprimise. Having one unit optimized for car/road use and another for caching would be ideal There don't seem to be many complaints from users having purchased a more capable GPS model. The real commitment seems in the time spent learning how to use any particular model. I appreciate Garmin continually offering free upgrades over the internet, for my old unit. A GPS receiver is a purchase that can last for many years. I'm happy with the Emap's large screen and expandable maps showing the roads to the caches. It's just not as durable as other units. An arrow pointing in the right direction works OK. But the auto routing of the Garmin V is is a huge leap ahead, with turn by turn driving guidance for car use. ---------- Greenjeens

quote:New Balance 8xx series lighter than sneakers and all the traction of hiking boots. $70-$100 I have a couple of pair of NB 804, and besides being one of the FEW shoes that come in a narrow B width on the entire Planet..Grumble Grumble.... the tiny lugs wear out fast! What's up with that? It's like less than 3/16" of soft rubber lugs and then the shoe is a virtual slick, while the tops have plenty of wear left? Solved one big drawback of low-top running shoes. Finally did myself (and my socks) a favor and bought some gaiters at REI, to keep the stickers and dirt out of my socks. Why didn't I do this years ago and save myself many hours of sticker picking and poking? ----- David

quote:Originally posted by BassoonPilot: Currently using half an old Startac cell phone case, plastic keypad half with CLIP on it. Slips on stiff hat brim and then I loop the 3' under the back band to keep the cable behind me. Then to a back pack shoulder strap pouch. Any old case, with a good clip, that holds the external antenna securely should work on a hat brim. Slid a little aluminum ground-plane under the ext antenna, inside the startac case. Not sure if I'm going to try digging out the magnet to reduce weight on the brim? In the field, found it easist to use the hat/antenna/cable as one piece and the pack/GPSr/holster as another. When disconnected, the end of 3' cable dangling from the back of the hat, didn't seem to be a problem when taking off the pack/GPSr. Maybe a little velcro loop tie would help? Hope this is clear, it's still a work in progress. I got a GPS geek antenna and have been going back to places I couldn't get a good sat lock with my Emap. Highly recommended worthwile improvement. Bought one of those smaller style (1"x1.3"x1/2") GPS antennas on Ebay and there was little or no gain, a real dissapointment. ---------- Greenjeens

quote:Originally posted by azog:So what's a good clothier for outerwear? Mainly a jacket, because all I have is my metal-daze leather jacket. I don't do snow-caching but I like to keep warm during winter. For jackets, Mountain Hardware, North Face, Patagonia, Sierra Designs make some nice shell Parkas. I don't like hoods but the articulating one's are best when used. They allow the head and hood to move together, so vision is not restricted when turning the head. Some Parka models have an optional zip out jacket/liner capability, which provides 4 season flexibility. When it gets warmer, zip out the independant jacket/liner for extended use of the shell or jacket. I was looking at some new fleece inner jackets that had a drawstring at the neck, a brilliant, practical idea IMO. A parka keeps the butt warmer than a shorter jacket style. Some mid-expedition weight Polypropylene underwear is recommended. I only get the turtleneck zip type, as this keeps the critial neck area warm. Patagonia makes some good stuff. I like my Outdoor Reasearch gore windstop cap for keeping the head and ears warm. Put the proper waterproofing compound on those boots. ------- Greenjeens

quote:Originally posted by KYtrex:Yes the Garmin V can beep at turns. You do not have to set waypoints. It will beep just using the autoroute feature. Helps a bunch! I'll assume this info is buried in the manual under some other heading. I'm already getting nervous about learning a new interface, after having just discovered some Emap features, Garmin didn't include in that manual. I guess there is no tone difference between right and left turns, like one beep for right, two for left? Thanks, Greenjeeens

Hi all, I was out shopping for a new GPSr and thought I read somewhere where about an audible beep at turns for auto routing. I read the V manual and could not find this function anywhere. The salespeople at REI, where I was shopping, said I would have to set waypoint at each turn to get a beep. Once the detailed city street maps are downloaded how do you set auditory tones? Anyway, if I'm driving alone it seems very dangerous to get visual cues only from that little V screen. Currently have an Emap. Was surprised how small a V is and how large the 76s is. The 76s is also on the shortlist, but the auto-routing looks handy. Thanks, Greenjeens

quote:Originally posted by HardCache: Instead, I found a table with about 20 or 30 cell phones and a sign, "Free if you take them all." So I did. I'm going to sort through them, test them, find all the good ones, Let me know if I can help with programming. I have some of the codes and procedures for resetting some handsets. I've done a bunch. Think a buddy still has a pile of older Motorola CLA car chargers, (One type only) for the smaller brick handsets. ---------- Greenjeens

I used to hike all day with only a pair of shorts nothing else, not even shoes if the earth was moist and green! I never ran into a rattlesnack or fell or had my knee go out then. Was it youth, luck, or just better odds due to lower "mileage"? Now I carry a cell phone, since I've had numerous close encouters with rattlesnakes, hike alone and drive on mountain roads at night. I often mark waypoints were a cellular call can be made. Also carry an LED flashlight/beacon and mirror. Never had to use them, that's fine. I think most of us get a thrill by pushing some kind of personal limit. Funny, the drive to "wherever" is probably the most dangerous part of an activity. Many places I hike or camp, might receive a cellular signal by walking/crawling to the top of a hill. A Globalstar Sat phone would be the ultimate dream communication tool. Ham radio looks interesting. Most rangers, police, fireman, S&R, carry and depend on radio communication devices. They are extremely powerful tools. At least helping someone else out with cell phone/SAT or Ham communications, seems like a high probability occurance while out in the woods. ---------- Greenjeens

After using branches and pvc for walkng sticks, I first tested a pair of REI aluminum trekking poles. Later th Leki Super Makalu Cortec poles, with cambered handgrips, were a winning recommendation! Using the angled handgrips made a huge difference in body mechanics and wrist comfort, compared to straight handrips. Learning how to use and adjust trekking poles properly does takes some practice. Wrist straps take weight and let the grip relax, for instance. How to use a Trekking Pole http://www.trekpoles.com/howtouse.htm The main complaints: clicking sound from the shock absorbers and having to stow/unstow and adjust (length) when changing from uphill to downhill (stow on flat). The main pluses are: feels like cheating walking up a hill along wth getting the upper body involved in a balanced workout. Reduced knee strain and increased stability. ---------- Greenjeens [This message was edited by Greenjeens on October 27, 2002 at 12:41 AM.]