Greenjeens

I suppose the moral of the story is whenever encountering the "AUTHORITIES" make sure that anything that could be an implement of mass destruction or planning such an act OR contraband.. those items should be clearly marked as to their true nature and non threatening use. OR in the case of substances ID as or prescription meds issued by a legite doctor or else harmless ingredients. Story coming... (no strip search though) Problem is I only thought that mattered OUTSIDE MY HOME. Long story short, police outside my house looking for car thieves that were fleeing. LOTS OF FLASHLIGHTDS and even more cars. I felt safe since I just talked to the local police a few nights earlier about finding my neighbor dead in his home, passing away naturally. Decided to tell police the 2 houses next door were vacant and the people they were pursuing likely cutting through to the next block or hiding there.(FIRST MISTAKE) Basically, I got ID'd as the culprit from a seriously pumped up rookie, asked to come to the sidewalk, put in handcuffs, and put in back of the patrol car. At this point they were not very interested in how the "real theives" were getting away, ..... Bad turned to worse, when they went in my house, returning with news that they "found my herion". I couldn't think what it was they thought they had found, until I was showed a medium sized plastic bag with about a dozen nested folded paper "bindles" inside, each filled with a little brown powder. OH SHOOT! I had just gone to the accupuncturist, the Chinese Doctor uses herb extracts, as opposed to having to boil down the raw herbs down. In a usual thrifty way, my DR didn't put any card or instructions inside, since I already knew the simple preparation method. These were also just sitting on top my desk! The police didn't seem to be buying the accupuncture herb story either ...darn. At this point events were starting to get outta hand, and it felt like a cross between the movie The Fugitive, where no one believes Dr Kimball and Midnight Express were I was headed for some unpleasant form of captivity for an unknown amount of time!! So, after a night in jail and then getting my attorney nieghbor to intercede, the charges of "Drunk in Public" WTF? got dropped in the "Interest of Justice". I knew a few new things. Cops don't look very hard if you fit the description, I understood why people of color don't trust police,.... _Always_ put a biz card in my accupuncture herb bindles, and it pains me, but if I ever see police cars lined up and down the street, DON"T GO OUTSIDE TO HELP, even if I know where the bad guys are! (maybe I'll just call it in?)

Cell phones can display GPS coords directly, but it is tricky, so use some restraint and read al the info first. Watch out for getting billed for activating the phones GPS! To get coordinates from many Verizon CDMA phones that are AGPS capable check out this thread. Basically you need to be in an urban area where the E-911 GPS system is turned on. http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php...07&page=1&pp=10 _Very_ Basic pointers to get GPS coords from phone. SET GPS TO ALWAYS ON. Bring up the "GPS ONE " section of the debug screen on the cell phone, "Debug" is submenu displaying lots of the network settings and readings. Changing some of these settings can cause the phone to stop working. Standard warnings and disclaimers apply. *Then call 922. It appears 922 is kind of a 911 test number. It activates the phones ability to download the GPS coords from the cell tower. This MAY cause the phone to display GPS coords in GPSONE menu. *VERY IMPORTANT! Dialing 922 may be charged as a 411 information call by VZW. I was charged for nearly a dozen 411 calls on my VZW bill. I had to call CS and get them off. 922 calling and getting GPS coords from many cell phones also seems to work from unactivated phones. There's no chance you will be billed from a phone with no account. *ALSO, 922 may connect to 911. If so, DON"T hang up! Tell them you dialed 922 and it's not an emergency. For more info on cellular AGPS see Snaptrack.com Greenjeens

I know this sounds stupid, but tonight neither one of my GPS units would see more than one satellite for about 5+ minutes, just after 6:05 PM PST, near SF California. Anyone else notice an outage or have I just not turned them on for some time (2 weeks and 4weeks) and they needed to rebuild a data base, possibly due to some kind of sat network upgrade? GPS receivers can be blocked for national defense purposes, which made the long wait for a signal lock a bit unnerving. Never experienced just looking at the screen and seeing only one sat locked for an extended time on my 60cs AND Emap, just wanted to check if I'm the only one experiencing this and look for a possible explanation. Any web site that would track the satellite network performance and include any disruptions, as unlikely a possiblity as it is? Thanks, Greenjeens

Concerning the Garmin 60cs, which I love and not being the most frequent or sophisticated GPSr user... I had the compass set on without knowing and took it out for a 20 mile trek, without the manual. Tried everything to turn the compass off, since the batteries would be drained before the end of my trip. Well, after getting back home I found the solution...hold down the "PAGE" button. Not an intuitive UI manipulation and not easy to guess. Another mistake I made was getting all these wierd compass readings. Finally realized the electronic compass needs to be held level. Apparently a later software update (I don't remember seeing this when brand new) has added "HOLD" and "LEVEL" to the compass screen. I'mnot a real expert with either so I usually carry both... A manual compass won't run out of batteries or crash, though it can crush. A standard compass is also handy for using on a paper map. Map and compass is a reliable backup to a GPSr. Getting the paper map aligned properly with the real world features is very helpful to those of us who have trouble picturing the world 3 dimesionaly within our minds eye. A huge paper map aligned accurately with true/Mag North, gives a much better "Big Picture" representation of ones course, position and surrounding elevations than smaller GPSr screens, IMO. A lensatic type compass is a cheap, small and handy device for sighting a distant point of reference and shooting a bearing. Also usueful for that final 50-100 feet to the cache where overhead trees may block a GPS signal, especially helpful when the cache distance and direction is taken from several different approaches. One can site a point where GPSr several bearings converge at some feature on the ground. FYI: I also use the battery saver mode. Forgot the potential limitaions that might be created, but seems to work fine and sure makes the batteries last a long time. - Greenjeens

Excellent battery reference page Welcome to Battery University http://www.batteryuniversity.com/ * Note the Li-ION differences (most cellular phone type batteries). --------------------------------------- Storing and priming of batteries "Nickel-metal-hydride can be stored for about three years. The capacity drop that occurs during storage is permanent and cannot be reversed. Cool temperatures and a partial charge slows aging. Nickel-cadmium stores reasonably well. Field test reveled that NiCd batteries stored for five years still performed well after priming cycles. Alkaline and lithium batteries (primary) can be stored for up to 10 years. The capacity loss is minimal. Manufacturers recommend to trickle charge a nickel-based battery for 24 hours when new and after long storage. This service brings all cells to equal charge level and redistributes the electrolyte to remedy dry spots on the separator brought on by gravitation of the electrolyte. It is advisable to verify the capacity with a battery analyzer before use. This is especially important in critical applications. Cycling (priming) is recommended to regain lost capacity after a nickel-based battery has been stored for 6 months or longer. A slow charge followed by one or several discharge/charge cycles will do this. The recovery rate is governed by the condition under which the battery was stored. The longer and warmer the storage temperature, the more cycles will be required. The Prime program of the Cadex battery analyzers automatically applies the number of cycles needed to regain full capacity. Nickel-based batteries are not always fully formed when leaving the factory. Applying several charge/ discharge cycles through normal use or with a battery analyzer completes the forming. The number of cycles needed to attain full capacity differs between cell manufacturers. Quality cells perform to specification after 5-7 cycles. Those lacking formation may need 50 or more cycles to reach acceptable capacity levels. What is the difference between priming and forming? For the user, both symptoms manifest themselves as insufficient capacity. The difference may be explained in that forming needs to be done only once when the battery is new, while priming must be repeated after each prolonged storage." "While capacity loss during a battery's life cannot be eliminated, simple guidelines minimize the effect: Keep batteries in a cool and dry storage area. Refrigeration is recommended but freezers should be avoided. When refrigerated, the battery should be placed in a plastic bag to protect against condensation Do not fully charge lithium and nickel-based batteries before storage. Keep them partially charged and apply a full charge before use. Store lithium-ion at about 40% state-of-charge (3.75-3.80V/cell open terminal). Lead-acid batteries must be stored fully charged. Do not store lithium-ion fully depleted. If empty, charge for about 30 minutes before storage. Self-discharge on a depleted battery may cause the protection circuit to trip, preventing a recharge. Do not stockpile lithium-ion batteries; avoid buying dated stock, even if offered at a reduced price. Observe the manufacturing date, if available. Never leave a nickel-based battery sitting on a charger for more than a few days. Prolonged trickle charge causes crystalline formation (memory). "How long can the batteries hold their charge if I leave them on the shelf ?" --------------------------------------- "At normal room temperature, NiMH batteries can generally retain 70% of their charge after 30 days. Normal self discharge of NiMH batteries is about 1 percent per day at normal room temperature. Of course, environmental factors and higher temperatures will play an important role in the above said value and will cause NiMH batteries to discharge at a slightly higer rate. Lower temperatures ( 40° to 60° F ) on the other hand will cause NiMH Batteries to hold their charge longer" -------------------------------------- Just for general info... I haven't used any of these products below. I got to the point of finding these recommended computer controlled chargers and high mAH batteries. Getting a "package" looks like a very good deal, when I decide to go all out rechargable. I'm still limping along with a serviceable but "dumb" Rayovac PS4 charger, replaced under warranty after partially frying my (relatively expensive) but widely sold at retail, Energizer 2300mAH AA batteries. These smart computer controlled chargers appear much advanced. Some chargers just time the charge. BatterySpace.com - Batteries & Chargers http://www.batteryspace.com/ Reference forum... Battery froum :: Index http://forums.batteryspace.com/forums/ - Greenjeens

To answer my own questions, seems probably easier just to have a seperate PC, especially for an unskilled computer user. It appears, within my limited understanding, that USB/GPSr/Mac connections are not compatible. Serial connections appear to be of some use. Firmware downloads from Garmin using a Mac seem to be a non starter. Trying to make these devices talk, looks like a recipe for lots of grief... unless something new and magical has changed between Garmin and newer Mac operating systems or experimental software? Here's a discussion. Garmin Software On Apple Imacs ? http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=78546 - sid

Burning question! I apologize if this Q has been asked before. Searches turned up nothing. I'm ready to buy a "real" computer and am leaning towards a new Mac. Many people say there is something called a PC emulator, but it's slow and not much "fun". But I haven't found anyone who actually uses it for a GPSr. I'm not a very sophisticated user. I need some way to handle my Garmin 60cs/Mapsource software, get firmware updates from Garmin, as well as use PC only cell phone PIM software. I do remember someone suggesting getting a cheap PC to do PC only stuff. Is there a simple one machine/Mac route? Any links or advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Greenjeens

A GPS turning off in the same place everyday? Wow that's interesting! Maybe some intense RF interference? I'd post that waypoint/travel direction and notify Garmin and any other 60c users to see if anyone else can re-create the outage. I'd be interested to hear what Garmin had to say about what kind of energy/frequency could knock out GPSr power in the same place daily. I access the debug menu in cell phones for detailed network/power/data rate info and perhaps there is a similar sub menu in the 60cs, which might provide some clues, as to what is happening signal wise? My 60cs shut off, due to battery terminal weakness. Sent it back to Garmin. Also mentioned in a note that my screen had a bad scratch. Garmin replaced the scratched screen for FREE, along with the battery terminal fix and sw upgrade! Guess which GPSr brand I am going to keep buying the rest of my life and recommend to everyone? I don't think there is a better supported device than Garmin...is there? Now, I _always_ put a PDA type protector screen film on all my portable devices, especially cell phones, since flip model screens are often etched/clouded by their own keypads...and it's highly unlikely any cell phone maker/carrier is going to replace a scratched screen, without charging a bunch of money! - greenjeens

I like my Garmin 60cs and tech support has to be the best I've ever had with any portable device. An external antenna jack would be a requirement for me with any brand. I have an old Gilson/GPS geek antenna, and it improves the signal so much, wether on my car roof or on my hat clip out in dense tree cover, I consider it the best accessory one could purchase. I haven't used a specific "rerediating" GPSr antenna, but with lots of experience using and testing cellular external antennas, unless there is a direct, hardwire connection, with a dedicated port, performance is usually very poor. Signal transfer, through an inductive pickup has been a waste of time. Guys in the antenna biz have told me as well, how minimal non hardwired antenna pickups are. Glass mount antennas seem to be the one exception. Perhaps it's the very small gap (thickness of glass) the signal needs to jump. I still think a hardwire connection would be much stronger. - Greenjeens

I got my 60cs back from Garmin with lots of repairs and upgrades. They even gave me a new screen! Is there any better device support, anywhere? Two days later got the massage that a new version 3.6 was out. Fixed one thing, no expanationof exactly the problem was. IIRC Baud Rate change? Thought is was strange they did not give me the latest version. Now I'm glad. Doesn't Garmin have the old version at their web site? - Greenjeens

What a complex device. It's great to revue and learn more about this little wizard. Most useful accessories... This forum:) Screen savers (Radio Shack cheapies) A must! Better to apply before scratching screen... Gilsson/GPSGeek external antenna+ground plane. Greatly improves signal in trees and even in the open. ~3-6" round piece of sheet metal mounting. Small piece of sheet metal improves signal quite a bit, when not attached to car body (at least on my early model unit). Energizer 1200mah NiMH batteries. Please be careful of the swivel clips and swivle knobs! The knob will become unscrewed and the swivel assembly looks just like the one's on my cell phones that break off or fall apart. A little thread lock will keep the knob from coming loose. - Greenjeens

The civilian GPS frequency is 1575 MHz or a wavelength of 19 cm (7.5"). The ground plane sizes you cite look rather large to me, corresponding to a square that's over two wavelengths long. Making it that big will work well but doesn't give you much improvement over smaller sizes (say a circle diameter of half a wavelength). Obviously the little antennas we're talking about here work fine without any additional ground plane, but there is some improvement when placed on a flat metal surface like a car roof. Those dimensions seem large to me too, but article says they are minimum? I don't know the formula or even basic theory why it works. I'm beyond he limits of antenna knowledge here, but isn't the colinear, magmount "spring" design, two antennas stacked end on end? Maybe the design has something to do with the 2 wavelength minimum dimension? Anyway the relationship is 4 times the antenna length 12"(1/2 wave) or 2x wavelength Put my GPSr antenna on a large ~8" sheet metal square and was very surprised how big a difference it made, compared to not using anything. Usaully it's clipped alone on my hat brim. May try some smaller sizes (circles?), testing a usable size vs increased gain. Walking around with a sheet metal circle on my head, is just a little too wierd, even for me:) Takes up too much time explaining the set up to the unintiated. What is a Ground Plane? http://www.criterioncellular.com/antennas/groundplane.html "A Ground Plane is a flat surface of ferrous metal (galvanized, steel, etc) that a Magnet Mount or Body Mount antenna uses as an integrated part of it. A Metal Car Body is a ground plane. The metal top of a refrigerator is a ground plane. A filing cabinet is a ground plane. A tin roof is a Ground Plane. A ground plane can be a cookie sheet! A ground plane is NOT a metal roof gutter, a window frame, a downspout or any other piece of metal that is long and thin. A ground plane MUST satisfy BOTH length and width dimensions outlined below. Just as long as it is big enough: for Dual Band/800 MHz/Nextel = 28" x 28" minimum for 1900 MHz only = minimum 12" x 12" A Ground Plane does not need to be electrically grounded. It simply needs to be a plane of metal. Your local hardware store sells galvanized roof flashing for cheap that can be used as a ground plane. Please note, the antenna should be mounted in the CENTER of the ground plane."

How did the Garmin 27C compare with any other non-OEM antennas? I like Garmin stuff, but antenna design is not rocket science and could easily be built by any antenna producer. Garmin premium prices may not reflect performance or build quality for this particular accessory. Any other antennas to checkout? Gilsson still good? I've been out of the loop. How much does the 27C weigh, lighter is better? I once bought a really small antenna on ebay and there was no gain, it just got the signal out of a vehicle, with no amplification:( Im not sure Garmin gets comparitively poor antenna performance, but [wildly speculating here] that would be one area to reduce battery drain on a color screen device powered by only 2 AA batteries. It would be hard to say, how much an external could improve performance of other GPSr brands, unless an external antenna port was provided to compare. Having the option to boost or not, and the option for an external antenna, makes for greater flexibility for GPSr placement and battery life. Wires are a hassle, but with some creativity, wiring tangles can reduced. - Greenjeens

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The magnets in the GPS Geek (Gilsson) antenna are removable, but they don't change the weight by much. I think the main reason to take them out would be for use near a magnetic compass. It does have a metal base presumably for a ground plane that adds some weight. I put it in a little handsewn pocket inside the very top of my cap and the weight is not a problem in that location. But I could see it being noticeable if mounted on the brim and making the cap unbalanced. The Gilsson model antenna SM-76, weighs about 2.5 oz. Not including the attached 40" cable. The owner of the store said the (iron?) or a heavy mettalic base, was integral to the design and could not be removed. I expected an incredible received sat signal, with the latest generation 60cs GPS chip, and the big quadralinear antenna... Not much of an improvement over the internal, Emap patch antenna, out in the real world of trees and canyons or even no obstructions:( This amplified external antenna really delivers on the promise of noticable signal gain. I'm hoping the latest models are even better a lighter. Haven't tested how much the battery life of the 60cs is effected by antenna drain. I'll usually only plug in the antenna connector, when needing a signal boost in tree cover, or when closing in on a waypoint. I found an almost useful fact...The mimimum/optimum ground plane size, for cellular 800mhz frequencies, is 28" square, 28"x28". For PCS, 1900mhz the dimension is half or 14"x14". Although it seems a circle is a more appropriate shape? Anyway, what is the correct size for GPS frequencies? What are the GPS frequencies? - Greenjeens

Groundspeak Forums -> Quoting a Post in Antenna Or Not? I cut an old cellphone case in half and shoved the antenna inside. The clip then attaches to a hat brim. The cord is run out the back of my hat to the GPSr, held in a case attached to a backback shoulder strap. I used an old startac case. Works pretty well, I keep it in the case most of the time. I'm using an older style antenna. I want a new and hopefully lighter antenna, so it doesn't add too much weight hanging out on the brim. Apparently GPS Geek was using, heavy magnets or a large chunk of metal as part of the design (for a ground plane?). Suppose with a little sewing, velcro would work too. - Greenjeens

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Mine shuts off very easily with a just little shock. Forgot how annoying this has been, especially since the bean bag slides off the dash regularly. Played around with some sorbathane sheet at different locations inside the battery compartment. Finally just bending the battery terminals helped quite a bit, but not a complete cure since the contacts will compress again. Time to send it back and let Garmin fix it. This is just a poor design for a rugged use product. Reminds me of cheap Radio Shack equipment battery compartments... If the belt clip is anything like the bunch similar looking one's I've broken on cell phones...you were warned. Those clips have a habit of coming apart during use. Also make sure the knob has some Locktite on the threads, so it won't unscrew. Hope the knob is better material than it looks to be made of. After breaking so many cell phone clips, knobs and swivels of various sorts and nearly losing my phone a few times, I went with a "Rugged" brand all stainless swivel. With a slightly different machined metal knob on the 60cs, it would fit in the rugged clip. Will try to get one machined on a lathe. Losing an expensive piece f electronic equipment, because of a fifty cent clip failure, is pretty dumb. Come to think of it, a safety line lanyard might provide some piece of mind. I regularly find myself feeling to make sure the GPS is "still there" while hiking. Perhaps a coiled key chain type of wire, to keep the tangle down and so the GPS can be removed for viewing (clipped high on back pack shoulder strap). The 60cs already has a mounting hole for a lanyard. - Greenjeens

Figured out the reason why the arrow points in the completley wrong direction when navigating. Apparently when the electronic compass is engaged, the GPSr needs to be held horizontaly for an accurate reading. Holding the GPSr vertically, with the electronic compass on, gives very strange pointer readings. A few other tips... I never did auto routing with a GPSr before, so when alternating between auto routing and trail use, setting the the map to "prompted" allows quick dual use set ups through "follow road" or "off road" selection. Speaking of auto routing... Mapsource has this annoying programming, where the existing highway exit signage is not matched. The name of ANY street which the offramp intersects is given instead. When the GPSr labels the exit turn, as some insignificant and unfamiliar side street, simply becasue it's the first street encountered on the offramp, it's rather confusing. Anyone else have difficulty finding the correct page to "stop navigation"? Seems simple enough from the map, active route or compass page, but on the fly, I find myself searching through what seem like excessive pages for a "stop navigation" option. Another observation. An external antenna greatly improves fringe performance. I'm using the same GPSgeek SM-76 DC2.5-5.0V low current magnetic unit, that was used with a previous Emap GPSr. No idea what other or current amplified antennas are available for the 60cs. This antenna is older, and a little too heavy for baseball hat brim use, due to a piece of heavy iron (magnet?), integrated in the base of the antenna. A rare earth magnet should bring the wieght down. For indoor use it outperforms the stock antenna... enough to pull in sats through a nearby window, for couch navigation. Assume it would enhance in car use to a similar degree. When used alone, a ground plane significantly increases performance. Currently using a 7" circle of sheet metal. Perhaps a smaller ground plane would work. Haven't tested reduced sizes yet. Wish list... A "security lock code" on the unit. The purpose would be to lock the unit on power up, in the event it became lost. An inoperable GPSr might induce the finder to be honest and give a call, then collect a reward listed on the Welcome Page. Got to get some kind of secure shoulder strap set up, but one easy to remove for viewing. The stock plastic belt clip, which holds the GPSr, looks nearly identical to the bag full of broken clips that have failed on my cellphones. I'm expecting a eventual clip breakage, and possible loss, due to the increased GPSr weight and rough outdoor usage. Locktight on the swivel knob screw is REQUIRED, since this part loosens easily! I'm looking for a METAL clip and perhaps a metal swivel head, to replace the Garmin stock assembly, similar to the the stainless steel assembly in the "Rugged" brand of cellular cases, to provide a secure clip, as well as a belt loop, which won't pull off accidently. Been there done that... Although the swivel knob looks to be a high grade plastic, reproducing another knob in nylon, delrin or stainless steel, could be the first step to building a better clip. Swivel knob dimensions would have to remain the same for those of us using the garmin auto holder mount... darn. Otherwise it might be easy to modify a "Rugged" swivel/clip, by drilling a stepped hole in the knob and using the same screw size, to fit the threads on the 60cs. ------- Greenjeens

Yes, the arrow was pointing in the wrong direction, about 180° off! I assumed it was from dropping the unit and the screen went to the service mode:-o Forgot to calibrate the compass after the drop and the restoritive power cyle. Even after calibration and selecting off road, the arrow still pointed in the wrong direction. What a stumper?? Thought I could use basic functions out on my first backpack trip, without the manual...mistake. Jeez, at least I was counting on the "find waypoint" arrow pointing in the right direction! My emap never led me astray! Maybe there was iron in the surrounding mountain peak/outcroppng, since my friend's Legend was acting up too. This might be a good place to turn off the electronic compass. Darn I had forgot how to do that. After getting home and pouring over the manual...what seems more intuitutive than holding down the "page" key, to turn the electronic compass off? Just about anything. Think I know what happened to some of those layed of Motorola engineers. Who else could think of such a non-intuitive menu system? A possible clue or at least a similar incident, with a known cause. During "follow the road" autoroute waypoint finding, I noticed the same behavoir of the arrow pointing the wrong way. This was due to the default, Avoid "No U turns". I turned that off. This is found in a sub "routing" menu. I fully expect most problems to be my own user error, but I've noticed it's very important to set and check all the various detailed menu options correctly. - Greenjeens

I took my new 60cs out on a backpack trip this weekend. The backpack fell over, onto rocks, with my GPSr attached to the shoulder strap. Left some small sratches on the screen:-( Surprised it wasn't worse. The display must be some really hard polycarbonate or something. Tried a bottle of old laserdisc cleaner to remove the scratch. Did nothing even after lots of polishing, so I used my fingernail through the cloth... well, that mostly left the scratch and added a small smudge spot, due to the fine abrasive in the cleaner. The it wouldn't come out with more polishing. That's what i was afraid of...leaving a cloudy spot. Now I definitley notice a optical distortion on that area of the screen, where the original scratch did not seem to be visible with the display on:-( Polishing plastic is tricky and likely requires at least a couple "grits" of abrasive, to get anywhere near close to the original mirror like surface. I suspect the original surface is a result of casting the plastic and not of some polishing process. Anyone have hands on experience of polishing their Garmin display? I noticed the Brasso and Maquires suggestions, which I might try, if I knew what to expect. Someone also suggested Displex, but that was for a cellular phone display. Also have a dremel buffer (single speeed), but that can also "burn" into plastics, due to high rpm. Think the very hard plastic is going to reguire lots of mechanical polishing, as provided by a buffer of some sort, in order to produce visible results. At this point I would recommend leaving scratches alone, since they didn't seem to be very noticable when using the GPSr. As for display protectors (wish I had one on before the trip), the Radio Shack ones look worth a try, mostly because they are handy to purchase. Any other polishing/scratch removal ideas or experiences? - Thanks, Greenjeens

This is a dangerous forum to hangout on with a credit card nearby. Nothing like 20 GPS nuts to convince one how smart it is to spend $500+ on a new toy...well might as well get the cable and auto routing maps for the 60cs too? My darned old Emap won't break, but it is getting hard to read and I'm going on a 20 mile overnighter next week and don't want to carry a bunch of extra heavy batteries. Ok, new toy easily justified:-) Can't wait to watch the graph of all those up and down elevation changes. Getfeetwet just happened to be a great deal and since it's in Los Angeles, my toy is going to get here real fast to give me time to figure it out!:-) [edit] I just went out hiking and had a close encounter with a bobcat...strange, it "escorted" me through it's territory. Best reason yet to get a new 60cs...I entered a waypoint and my Emap said, "waypoint memory full"...perfect timing:-) - Greenjeens

I bought a gpsgeek external for my emap. Hope they are making a lighter one these days. I talked to the owner about the weight. Apparently there was a big metal slug integrated in the antenna base. Stuck the antenna inside 1/2 of and old startac cellphone case. The side with the clip and then clip it to a baseball cap with the antenna lead run through the hole in the back of the cap. Then to my GPSr, held in a backpack strap case. Works very well, a big improvement under tree canopy. Well worth it. Great for the car too. - Greenjeens

I'd say Geocaching has created a huge new market for GPSrs. Glad I've held off this long, the old Emap is getting a little tired and cracked, but I haven't been able to kill it. Thanks to Garmin's continuing support it has got many great upgrades. Got my moneys worth! Talk about product support, no complaints here only appreciation! They never promised continuing upgrades for the life of the unit, but dleivered anyway. There's lots of reasos to remain a loyal Garmin customer. Isn't there some kind of Geocaching.com member discount? hint hint:-) Might be a nice little item to sell on geocaching.com. Do they have to send the business elsewhere? Does the battery draining compass and extras on the s version, have an off setting for increased battery life? - Greenjeens