HWyatt

My gps tells me when I am close but not precisely on the exact coordinates. So I step around until I am at the exact coordinates of the cache before I start looking. My gps gets me close but I get closer and eliminate lots of territory this way. hth. HWyatt

Ah...it's just a repeat of the stars.... Thanks so much. I printed off your detailed explanation....so I won't have to ask again. I appreciate your speedy replies. HWyatt

I'm taking some newbies out geocaching and one of them has bad knees and can't hike too far. So, as I look at cache notes...the (D/T) means distance and apx time it should take to find the cache, right? So if a cache has (3.5/1.5) rating it means 3.5 miles and apx 1.5 hours. Am I reading this right? Thanks. HWyatt, not wanting to lose a friend geocaching

I think's its me. I did download new printers...but also tried printing a page from a different website and had the same results, rats. The printer spits out a unprinted piece of papter and then starts printng the first page down a ways.... Thanks for the ideas...I will be fussing around now in the heat trying to figure it out. HWyat

Yup. Did that. Also turned it into a pdf and still can't get the top of the page to print. But will try again. To see if it "self-heals." Thanks. HWyatt

I recently updated my Mac os to Tiger and have had no other printing problems. But I can't seem to get the top of the cache pages to print...My printer pushes out 4-5 mostly blank pages and then starts printing the info right above the difficulty stars. I don't get the cache name, coordinates, general area map etc. So do I start tearing my hair out trying to figure out my printer or is the problem at geocache.com? If it is gc then I can be calm and patient. Anyone else having printing problems? HWyatt

This is a bit of a misconception. Desert areas often get a bad rap as being not environmentally sensitive....A desert habitat has more subtle attributes then a forest, for instance. They recover much slower from abuse then a wetter area. Deserts because of their dry nature, do not cover over or reclaim area that have been beaten down by atv's, or the repeated trompings of people on a single trail. We have a road on our desert property that we have been trying to recover for 4 years, that is still clearly visible. While the junipers, rocks, and sage of the Badlands may not appeal to some as beautiful, the Badlands is a wonderfully unique high desert habit that deserves the careful consideration by the many groups that it is getting. Should geocaching be banned there? I don't think so. But I do understand the concerns the stewards of this area are having. It's an area that's been badly abused and they are trying to recover it from these years of misuse. The central Oregon geo cachers are doing a masterful job of working with BLM. My hat is off to them. This thread is valuable as a way to work with the various government groups who control our public lands. And Oregon land managers have been very responsive to different groups needs. For instance, the llama industry worked hard to get llamas allowed in national forest and wilderness areas. It was a matter of education, understanding, the issues, and cooperation. And for the record...Portland and Bend are 180° different in location and habitat. Portland is in the wet area of Oregon, Bend and the Badlands east of Bend are in the high desert. The title of this thread is way off. HWyatt

Mopar said it perfectly. Geocaching and this forum is about geocaching. 0ne's whole life does not need to be filtered thru geocaching and this website. There are hundreds of places to donate to the tsunami victims. I support the moderator's keeping the group on topic. HWyatt

Safari here too. HWyatt

Can anyone give me a simple/lay-man's explanation for: hddd.ddddd° hddd°mm.mmm' hddd°mm'ss.s" I think I know that : hddd°mm.mmm' is what the coords are written in at geocaching, but what does it mean? And if I have coords that are: 44 07 09.24 latitude 120 58 03.7 longtitude which of the above 3 do I plug it in to? Thanks. HWyatt

The shift varies depending on location AND coordinate system used. If your using lat/lon, the difference of 120 feet is typical (96' where I live in Maryland) but is as high as over 300' in portions of California. If your using UTM, it is typically MUCH greater. In fact, at my location, it's about 700'. So, if your using paper topo's and UTM to plot your position on the map, make sure you've selected the proper datum when entering positions manually in your gps, and then select the proper datum to display coordinates to use with your map. Poindexter Got it. Use the correct datums & write the coords on paper to stick in a pocket. So when I realize I have entered the right coords in the wrong datum I can correctly make the change. My gps needs a datum toggle switch. Thanks, as always you all are an education. HWyatt

Okay! Point taken about digging around in piles of rocks. We won't do it....I suspect the pile we dug in was not correct. It was a pile....of random shaped rocks and could have been Mother Nature made. We have been outta town and haven't gone out to look again. We were looking for the corner of 6-5 & 7-8, north of & west of the 16-17 you mention. We are going to try again with a compass bearing from other found corners, plus reconfigure our gps based on the info that, I think, you gave us earlier. Knowing what you all know, and it is formdable, and knowing how little some of the rest of us know, I wish there was an easy to find faq for BenchMark! and survey mark finding including the rule of not distrubing things. In our defense the pile of rocks we distrubed and rebuilt! looked like a pile of rocks to hold up a post....not to be a mark. BUT! we hear you telling us, ya never can tell. So piles in corners are left along from now on. We did take a digital photo of it with Powell Butte in the background to help locate it. Where do we go specifically to find this info. The local BLM office? Or somewhere in Portland? A silly question..but I really wouldn't know where to start to look for the records you so easily find. Thanks again for all your input. We will go at it again and keep you posted on how the hunt goes. HWyatt

More unasked questions answered. I was wondering if the term "benchmark" applied to the section corner markers (which are round and official looking.). No. Similar looking, but not the same. This is all very helpful information. We are looking for the corners, not to have something to log, but to test our skills and see more country. Yesterday's hike was 5 miles of wandering thru untrailed area, in a sparse juniper forest. Beautiful country. We did reassemble the pile of rocks as we found it. We will go to the BLM office and see what they say about survey marks out here. The rock pile "could" have been man made or not. Hard to tell. If it was piled up in 1880 it's had lots of time to become weathered. The diagram of a section is great. In our part of Oregon sections are often talked about. We will understand them better now. Jerry, Mike, and Rob thank you. Let me find out what I can and I may be back with more questions or a found survey marker. Or both. HWyatt

You have answered my red + question & I didn't even ask it! Thank you. This is so helpful! I'm printing off your reply for further study. We did find a pile of rocks and dug around and found nothing man-made under them. We saw a very old blaze on a nearby tree...as our search at other section corners was aided by finding the bearing trees. This is mostly open range BLM, so maybe this corner has no mark. But the game is afoot, the hunt is on...our next stop will be our local BLM office as well as the websites you suggested. Thank you, very much. HWyatt

Datums make my head hurt. But this is what I think I understand. Maps come in different scales, just like architectural drawings. These scales are called datums. When I am figuring out utm's on my old topo map and it has a datum of NAD27ConUS, I better have my gps set on that datum. When I am entering way points from the geocache site (which I do by hand as I am a proud Mac Computer user) I should reset my gps to WGS84...as that appears to be the datum most caches are listed under. But what if I forget to switch my datum when entering waypoints & I keep the gps in NAD27 ConUS....I enter the way points at home and once on the hunt I realize my mistake and switch over to WGS84. Will the gps automatically redo the way points or must I reenter them? I think I better reenter them.... Yes...no....???? Thanks for your help. HWyatt edit ps: when I am out of utm what should my gps be set to: hddd.ddddd° or hddd°mm.mmm' or hddd°mm'ss.s"

We have been walking the BLM land near us and had great fun finding the benchmarks for the section corners and have even noted that there are benchmarks at the half way point between section corners. We've been feeling pretty smug...as with the help of the gps and compass we found every corner we went for until today. We took a UTM reading off our topo map. We put it in correctly into our gps that was set to the right datum....but we never found a benchmark. We got to the spot and search around in every expanding circles...but no benchmark. What we wondered is if, all section corners have benchmarks.... OR, did we come up with the wrong utm...and, if there a site that we can check to see if the a benchmark has been set at this corner. I read the faq's but am still confused... And just in case you want more details... This particular section is in Crook County, Oregon, on the Horse Butte 1:24,000 quad. It's the corner of 6,5 & 7, 8 sectons in the NW part ((T17S?) of the map. The utm's we came up with are: 0,662,620 /4,886,930 in the datum NAD27CONUS. Any help is much appreciated. HWyatt edit ps: We do have photos of all the other ones we have found. Most are country bm's, but some are fed government bms....

Yes, a select group of people making a claim that another person's words should be banned is scary all right. This is nuts. Look up the definition of discriminatory, hateful, scary and free society. Sounds like your the discriminatory, hateful,person against a free society. I don't know how anyone can conclude that what HWyatt said in his post was discriminatory and hateful. From reading his post, I gather that he was asking the geocaching community a question: Is the community willing to explicitly allow political and religious opinions in the logs, knowing full well that these comments can be highly offensive to many people who merely want to enjoy geoching activities? Or should one of geocaching's simple rules be to refrain from doing this? HWyatt and others involved in geocaching have strong political and religious beliefs. And whether or not the geocacher who stamps "family values for a stronger America" has political and religious motivations, this phrase can certainly be viewed by many as politically and religiously motivated. Anyone who followed the past political season closely will not find it hard to attach political color to the the geocacher's chosen log signature. In my view, HWyatt was expressing his opinions in his post about something that he sees as a religiously and politically motivated comment in a log and which is offensive to him. He has no power to stop that geocacher's activities. Furthermore, he discusses the issue in this forum in a civil manner. He is not trying to exclude anyone from geocaching, much less trying to pass a law excluding certain members of the society from a certain activity, just discussing an issue relating to the general rules on how the game of geocaching should be played. How can what HWyatt said be taken as discriminatory and hateful? Seabound: Thank you, you are correct, in what you say about my intents. "Family Values" as it has been used in Oregon has come to mean discrimination against a group of people. Many Oregonians with families, with children, find this twisting of the term "family values" offensive. Because what we have seen it means in Oregon, is that those who yell "family values" are really for hate, bigotry, discrimination against gays. While the law passed in Oregon does not affect me or mine in anyway, I feel it is my reponsibility as a parent and a citizen to speak out about it, as I don't think hate and dicrimination is a family value and further I think it is bad for our state & our country. But I do NOT think it is my place to do this speaking in a geocache. Or even on this forum for that matter. I do agree it is hard if not impossible to police cache logs. Several of you have have mentioned this are correct. I see the problem. What I really wanted was clarification in what is appropriate to leave in a log. It seems political/religious stuff is okay. The way I got into geocaching was because I was so tired of all the hate and bitterness in our country, following the election, I turned to the outdoors for relief, by "adopting" some BLM land near our home. I thought it would be fun to walk the land, pick up trash, see mom nature thru the seasons. The BLM person I worked with mentioned a gps would be a good thing to have and I decided to get one. Doing my research lead me to this site. It seemed like such a fun idea to treasure hunt, fun, positive, family-oriented for my spouse and our kids...no politics, no religion, no ads. I was excited. The finding of a religious/political "ad" in the logs....did offend me. For those of you who think my taking offense is hypocritical, censorious, etc. I apologize. I did not make myself clear. I'm all for families, I have one. I'm all for free speech, I'm for a strong America. But I have my own opinions how to go about doing this and I wouldn't for a minute put my political, religious views in your log...for you or others to read....as I don't think it's appropriate. And I guess I thought it wasn't what I would find in a geo-cache. I don't want to make the geo-caching anymore difficult then it is already (I've been reading the Texas thread...) Some of you think I am making mountains out of molehills, by being offended by the statement and offering support when the subject was brought up. Perhaps I am, you're probably right. Hate, our Constitution is something I do feel strongly about and it's mostly because I am a parent and worry about the world my kids will grow up in. I saw too much racial hate in my childhood and had hoped the USA had moved past hate of those who are different. Again I apologize to this forum for inserting my concerns. I agree with you who say "its just a game, mellow out." Of course I should. Ack. The lingering effects of a divisive election. I will be better from now on. So, can we put this to an end and move on? We will agree to disagree. I will keep my political/religious beliefs out of all caches and all logs...and try to not be offended at others who don't. Bottom line: It is just a game and a darn fun one at that. HWyatt

Wow, really? A political party ran with the slogan "Geocaching - Family Values for a Stronger America".? No wonder they won! Sure beats "Sore losers for a weaker future", I guess. NE Noob make a good point. This is the guys log we're talking about. Not a cache full of political stuff. A sticker on a page in the logbook. Why are you offended? Would you be equally offended if a Rabbi went caching and signed the logbook "Thanks for the cache - Rabbi Geocacher"? Would you get offended if your local mayor was a cacher and signed the logbook? It's bad enough people are trying to be so friggin PC that there is a school that wont let the kids where red and green clothes, now you want to censor the guy's writing in the logbook? And how hypocritical is it to post this: At the bottom of a post asking Groundspeak to censor another geocacher? I don't see the hypocrisy. I posted it because I see what happened in Oregon as hateful, discriminatory, bigotry....in singling out a group of people in Oregon to not have equal protection under the Oregon laws. Because this law has no affect on me or mine....is not the issue. It's discriminatory, hateful, and very scary in a free society. I, choose to speak out against it. But I won't do it in a geo-cache....yet. If it's okay to put our religious/political views in the log books then I guess I have no issue with this guy leaving behind his sticker, offensive as it is. The question to all of you who think this is no big deal, is to put the shoe on another foot. If you have something you feel very strong about, would you want someone posting the contrasting views in the log books you find? Geo-cache.com, what's the answer? Can we happily post our religious, political, and commercial viewpoints in the logbooks? HWyatt

I repeat, what you are all missing, is that this statement was used in Oregon to discriminate against a group of people. It is not pc blather. It's a legitimate concern. "When they came for the gypsies, I did not speak, for I am not a gypsy. When they came for the Jews, I did not speak, because I wasn't a Jew. When they came for the Catholics, I did not speak, for I am not a Catholic. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak." On the Wall at the Holocaust Museum in Washington Baron Max & myself are not willing to "not speak." HWyatt

I too, have seen the sticker Baron Max complains about. I too, find it incredibly offensive. I think what is missing here is the recognition that the particular phrase is not as "innocent" as one might think. It is not about families and it is not about America's strength. Oregon just voted in an anti-gay amendment to it's constitution based on a religious "family values" theme. Phrases like Baron Max quotes were used to discriminate against those Oregonians who did not fit the "family values" of others. It was based on a rather limited intrepertation of the Bible by those who would like their religious views to be forced on all of us. It's to Oregon's shame this amendment passed. Many of us, current Oregonians, find the bigotry that is part of this anti-gay vote very offensive, scary, anti-American, anti-Constitution The "family value" theme is a slap in the face to those of us who don't accept this view of religion, families, Oregon, America. To many Oregonians this "family value" statement is against all that we hold near and dear. As a new geo-cacher and after a very contenious election season I was quite relieved to find that geo-caching.com did not allow religious, political, or commerical items in caches. I was ready to take a break from the hate and bigotry of the past few months. This "family values" phrase is both political and religious in the state of Oregon. I would hope that Baron Max's concerns are not just "blown off." He states a legitmate concern regarding "Famly Values for a Stronger America." Many Oregonians do see this as religious based bigotry that is very political, very offensive, and according to geocache.com's rules, should not be in the caches. HWyatt

No kidding. on my laptop, it's Fn + numberpad then ALT + 0178 (or 0248) then Fn + numberpad again. Quite a drag On a Mac it is: alt, shift, 8 ° Very easy. Yet another reason to go Mac. HWyatt

Two weeks ago I was where you are. What to buy? I went ahead and bought a fairly expensive one, but the learning curve is very steep. I know map and compass, topo maps, and can navigate with those. The gps confuses me. I am taking a class to help out. You might want to do what I did not. Buy a small inexpensive one and learn on it, without all the bells and whistles...and then once you "get it" and map & compass you can buy a more sophisticated unit. There is a forum here to sell used units. You might want to look there. At the point you are at, and I am still at....we don't even have enough knowledge of what we want to do and what the gps can do, to know what questions to ask...or once asked what the answer means.... On the otherhand...if you like a vertical learning curve this group is very helpful. HTH HWyatt

I think it also may depend on your sex. There has been so much made about stalking in the US that many women are relunctant to put out too much info. Whether it is justified, who knows. And then if you have ever been "bombed" by a disgruntled internet user....or had some one find you, to harass you, on every newsgroup you go to (not me, but it happened to a friend) then you will try to hide your identity. Plus with the invasive nature of our government and it's need to go Big Brother on us, many Americans are really trying to keep their private life private....It's not our fellow citizens who concern us, but Donald Rumsfeld. So, there are probably a variety of reasons. I always like to read about people, but have kept my profile essentially blank. HWyatt

I have wiped the sticky honey off my backpack... I've left it in the sunshine to air after spraying it with lysol.... I've done nothing but jam my clothes back into it and head out. All have ended the same. The cloths stink like a gym when I come home, I wash & dry them and put them away. The back pack gets crammed someplace outta sight. Bottom line...I don't think it's a problem. Let it air out, wipe it clean, and it should be okay. I wouldn't worry about it. Some of my backpacks are 20+ years and are fine as are my clothes and equipment. hth HWyatt

It was an ammo can, in the middle of blm land...with very few big critters and no indication the critters had found it. This is an area filled with pack rats. If the smell was there there would be indications of them working the area. There were none. The treats were dry and sealed in a ziplock. I think it was fine. Its a good rule. But in this case there appeared to be no problem. HWyatt