Cav Scout

Signal will probably loose interest if they start smoking

Why is this important to you? Likewise it would be interesting to hear what Groundspeak did to prepare for the Challenge, what resources they considered and why? Maybe a good Weekly Mailer topic?

Still does'nt answer my question. Thanks for taking a stab. Sure, as someone with a little insider info I'll take a stab at it. Please note that these answers are not necessarily in the order asked: Yes No Don't know Maybe Deane AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

Why is it important to me? Because I have a interest with EarthCaches. This is intended to be a question of curiosity, not intended to put you on the defense . A new EC was published yesterday in Kentucky and it was not by geoaware(?). http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...3f-e0e16e1bfc6f I would like to know who they are (geocaching handle) (not real names or addresses), is this regional?, experience, etc. If Im going to continue submitting ECs I would like to know who I will be working with thats all .

We know the new date for EC submittals . Can anyone tell us who the new reviewers are, their (EC) experience, and how many are on the team ? Are they assigned regions?

Its good to see this kind of stuff happening with EarthCaching. We had our 2nd Annual EC event this year as well. Cumberland Gap Style http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...28-1fc7376df33d The 3rd Annual EC event location is undetermined right now but it will happen. Hopefully with the EC submitting form falling under Groundspeak, we can get more support and cool things donated for the event.

Each of my EarthCache listings have the logging requirements posted that are very direct and to the point yet very simple to do, answer the questions and post a photo . If they dont meet the logging requirements I will delete the log without notice .

I imagine logging TBs during a EC visit will be allowed. This is speculation by myself .

For anyonme who wants to visit any of my ECs in KY, I will meet up with you or group and hike with you to the locations. Sand Cave EC's are nice to see . There's several more great ECs in and around KY created by dedicated EarthCachers that you can visit . There is a problem with all three earthcaches you have listed. They're all over 700 miles from me! Now I want to make the hike and visit Sand Cave! Curse you, Red Baron!

However, when you zoom in you will see all the nearby caches . This is the complaint I've heard most often in the past, although you've summarized the point far more eloquently. An additional practical concern is that the earthcache icon on the Geocaching.com Google Map "hides" the real geocache whose icon lurks beneath.

I am glad you brought this point up. I experienced this a few times resulting in my EarthCache requests being approved and the traditionals removed from a college park in Berea, Ky. I hiked the park to find the traditional caches and discovered that there was so many great EC locations. I waymarked several areas and set up an appointment with the park naturalist. I did the whole speal about geocaching and talked about EarthCaching. The naturalist then asked me how many of the traditional caches was in the park. I gave him the number geocaches and he seemed upset... To make a long story short the COs of the caches never did have permission and most ofthe caches where of of the trails. The caches where later removed and I ended up being the bad guy with the CO's of the cache hides. This could of all been prevented had the placers of the caches taken the time to get permission to hide the caches in the park. The local cachers had been using the old saying of "if they dont ask don't tell them" rule for placing hides. So my point is, there is alot more work in placing caches with permission and research. To have a vacation rule apply would be a sad day for many EC'ers who travel around the states. To say the mountain may collapse of a whole kame may dissapear may be true, but if the CO owner puts that much work into a EC, I am positive they will take the time to monitor their ECs and disable them when its neccessary.

I dissagree about the over use of an area. EarthCaches generally are observed from a viewing point such as a trail, road, or viewing platform. My experience with finding traditionals is that the areas those are hidden in become worn down from cachers flipping rocks, rolling over logs, removing moss, pulling grass, lifting manhole covers, etc, and the list can go on and on. The trampling of flora and fauna, the creation of social/geo trails, unintended destruction of historic or natural artifacts, etc are often caused during the search for a container. Again this is my experience... Placing a EC by a traditional should not offend anyone. 99 percent of the time the CO does not own the property where the cache is hidden, and to be offended by having a educational "virtual" cache placed to close to a physical cache is silly. I understand the rule of spacing physical caches 528 from each physical cache hide. Even then if you have to many traditional caches that are spaced 528 feet apart can lead to the power trail rule.

Ever visited, looked for, or logged an EarthCache? Geocaches and EarthCaches are two different items. The only thing they share is the same website and coordinate listing/usage.

The date has been pushed to the right. Its now 15 December . Be advised the date could change again .

I'm confused. You have this quote, and then you go ahead and say this : "However, cachers here don't value them as they don't comply to the normal GC.com guidelines and the submission process is torturous." And then, in the past, you have said this: "However, the lack of enforcement of a vacation guideline in Ireland is seeing the program being devalued as an easy way to have a virtual cache in Ireland." So... is it easy, or torturous to submit an EC, in your mind? If the Irish cachers don't like earthcaches and don't like to develop them, why can't someone else? Would they be willing to "maintain" ones already developed by others? Does having an Irish cacher involved in the process give the EC extra value it wouldn't have otherwise had? It wouldn't change the EC any, I'd think.

LOL! Nope I was never there ... This photo is me with some farmer in Iowa. I think I found several of your caches in and around Baghdad, but then again I'm not sure . Is your new EC about the Tigris River or one of the man made lakes? Ha! Nope, you never found any of my caches there - you armchaired them! But, what do I know, I wasn't there either, so how would I know who logged my caches. Hey - look for an earthcache in Iraq soon. At the time of placement, I assure you it will be very close proximity to my place of residence. (oh, for those keeping score, yep, that'll be the fourth go-around).

Out of the 16 EarthCaches Ireland has, the ECs have been developed by cachers from Czech, Ireland, Germany, Netherlands, and one from the USA. All of the write ups except two have great photos and the information is outstanding ! I would hardly consider any of these ECs as devalueing the current program.

How can the program be devalued when theres only 16 EarthCaches in the entire country of Ireland ? 16????? Considering this fact, I don't see why you would be concerned about the vacation rule in Ireland. You own one EC and the next closest EC is 41.9 miles away and the other is 46.7 miles away. The few ECs you have found have a few close by ECs that are spaced over 40 miles apart . I would welcome vacationers to set up ECs if I did'nt have any to find. If you are concered about having the EC program developed and want to see it grow in Ireland, why not go out and recon some good EarthCache locations? It seems you have the whole country to yourself . Wrong again! If you bothered to check my profile you would see that I own one EC and have found two others. Having trained as a teacher I want to see the EC program develop and grow in Ireland. However, the lack of enforcement of a vacation guideline in Ireland is seeing the program being devalued as an easy way to have a virtual cache in Ireland. I applaud the possible introduction of this guideline and hope that it will see the closer cooperation of cachers within and outside of Ireland to see ECs gain in popularity. Now will you stop using me to get a dig at others and actually see the point I'm making. You appear to be ignoring it as you have a personal issue with a GC.com moderator/reviewer. That is not me and the fact that I am a reviewer is irrelevant to the point I'm making!

When I started geoccahing in 2004, I noticed the same thing . I do enjoy finding a ammocan or container over a micro, but now I just sign the log and move to find another cache .

Cache reviewers or moderators account ? I looked at your profile and thought it was odd that you did'nt have any finds of hides

EarthCaching has been around since 2004 and you still consider it in its infancy stage? I look at this as not enough action being taken when it was neccessary when problems arose. Things tend to snowball when you dont fix problems right away. Groundspeak has been around since 2000? 2001? When I joined in 2004, the GC website was well organized and corrected problems fast and updated its listing guidelines and website without haste. Its still organized. EarthCaching could be same but for some odd reason its not. The handfull of posters in this thread are the workhorses of promoting and placing ECs. They are the ones going to National Parks and working with land managers on getting permission to list virtuals. Look at their finds and ownership. We are not talking about someone finding one EC two years ago and owning a few ECs. We are talking about people who own and found several ECs and actually do the grunt work to find these locations for us to find. I for one do not represent anyone but myself... But I think I do know what I am talking about in regards to EarthCaches. Like the small majority who post here, I will take a knee, drink water, and see what happens. You are deceiving yourself if you think that you, and the handful of others posting to this thread, represent the majority of EarthCache hiders and seekers. You are a tiny vocal minority. In reality, the overwhelming majority of the cachers who hide and seek EarthCaches don't even know that changes are coming and therefore don't even have an opinion. I, for one, am going to wait and see what happens. While I'm not saying that I will agree with all the changes, I applaud Groundspeak, the Geological Society of America, and Geoaware for having the foresight to recognize that change is necessary. I realize that EarthCaching is in it's infancy and must evolve if it is going to be successful in the future. Deane AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

I'd like to hear more from EarthCachers with more finds and ownership on ECs in regards to the new introduction of rules.

It seems we are reinventing the wheel again . Get it fixed and stick with a standard. Set the rules. Put it in writting. Post it for all to read and quit leaving us guessing what the rules/standards are. This new change is either gonna make it simple for all to place ECs or make it difficult and destroy the interest in geocachers placing ECs .

They must be the Delta Force of EarthCachers. I have no idea who they could be and could never guess who could be on such a elite team. I am looking forward to seeing them in action! I am curious to see who they are too. They seem so mysterious.

I remember this when I was challenged as if I was REALLY there or not,LOL. This is one of the reasons I ad a photo of myself at each EarthCache I develope. Its hard for some people to believe all of the places I been. I do travel and I am in the Military (23years). I was once accused of never being in Iraq too . I was TDY in NM for 6 months training up our Naitional Guard and Reserve forces for deployment to Iraq and Afganastan. During my off time I explored as much as I could. I think I actually have seen and been to more places around Las Cruses and Alamorgodo than the locals who live there. There are many places around that area that can be developed as ECs, but many folks dont wanna mess with EC submittals. This is why the vacation rule should not apply for the obvious out of stater people. We are like the Johnny Appleseed of EarthCachers. We plant them and you come and pick the apples from the sites. Cache on!