Flintstone5611

so if I use nails the size of fire tacks then we are fine?

Google must be hallucinating again. http://www.google.com/products?q=copper+na...ved=0CD8QrQQwAA

I know, I know, but we are talking about defacing property. What is worse, one screw set into a tree or seeing a tree speckled with reflectors?

Yes new guy. That is why I opened this forum!

Another interesting observation that people choose to make is that since fire tacks are small they leave a "undetectable" effect on the tree. I have come across many night caches that have upwards of ten tacks on a single tree! Were they fun, absolutely! Are the trees fine, most definitely! I am asking that if you are allowed to make unlimited 1mm holes in a tree, what is the harm with putting one 3mm hole in a tree? I am not trying to draw negative attention to those caches (they were awesome), but doesn't the argument lose objectivity if we have the same effect on the environment but do it in a different way? Or Can we disagree with someone elses method although it is no better or worse than our own in the long run?

Finally an argument for nails and screws in trees. What you are talking about is the practice of 'spiking' and it is done by fundamentalists to preserve the trees. They would argue that it better to impose the presence of this large iron spike (quite large at times) into this tree rather than see it get cut down. Remember they are a merry band of treehuggers like us, and yet...

Well if everyone is done talking then I am going caching!! It's only after midnight here!!

Double LOL, and a golf clap!!

LOL!

In reality there are some people that (through sheer ignorance) don't recognize the affect of certain materials on wildlife; if someone made that mistake it would take one log to educate that person and correct the matter (hopefully). The example you stated (with the MTO signage) is the other side of the coin that I am choosing to prod. Wiped clean with extreme prejudice, it is puzzling!

I already read way to many of his threads, lol. The last thing I need to do is search through them all. Could you post a link, it still sounds neat! April 1, 2009, subject, "Hungry Trees". Great thanks!!

I've had to post a hidden waypoint for each and every fire tack in the past as a "stages of a multicache" so, yes I would say they count as part of the hide. Nowadays I use the "reference point" mark when I use them. I don't call it defacing public property, as I can remove them without a trace quite easily - and I have done just that when decommissioning my earlier night caches. Define defacing. Along the context of using a nail...not a 1" hole in a tree.

IMHO when you are searching for something and "someone" provides you a trail to it...that's a clue!

In all honesty...none! I was thinking about how much more I have learned about the environment since I started geocaching (just a short time ago) and the relationship that we as geocachers have with our surroundings. Some have a very good geo-sense about them and others unfortunately don't. In my efforts to cause a little trouble, I meditated on this and wanted to hear how people in the community felt. I don't have any caches that involve nails/screws and wildlife, nor am I really torn on the issue myself. I have an opinion, but I am here to get everyone elses.

Ba-Zing! Who brought the red hot fire poker?!?

I already read way to many of his threads, lol. The last thing I need to do is search through them all. Could you post a link, it still sounds neat!

Really?? I have heard of a number of caches being antagonized and even archived because of this, but not at the request of the land managers...well at least not up here. I know the legislation is different in the USA. But an interesting opinion nonetheless!!

Be careful. The trees will happily go after people too: From Waymark (in Toronto!): http://www.Waymarking.com/waymarks/WM64MH_..._Toronto_Canada Now that is awesome!!

Nope. Then why the angst? No angst at all, but plenty of curiousity!

Sorry, I thought you were starting us off with some candor as well! I wasn't trying to be sarcastic, although in retrospect it would appear that way. It is just that I have had a couple disccusions on the issue and it often (and humourously) comes down to the "feelings" of the tree. I am sure that anyone that has walked through a forest has stumbled across a tree that has "consumed" an old farmers fence. It just makes me laugh when I see people up in arms about one nail. Didn't anyone have a treehouse growing up? How did we hold them up? Coat hangers covered in camo duct tape? You gotta love the double standard!

Nope.

Not a bad start. So we have "It would hurt more!" as our opening position.

I have noticed a bit of hypocrisy when it comes to night caches that is somehow overlooked by the fake hippie types. The ones that think that walking on wild grass is damaging the eco system and now cry when they see a baby seal (but only since they started geocaching)! Why is it 100% acceptable to people to place fire tacks in trees, but if a person were to nail something into a tree or screw an apparatus into a tree then they immediately are taken to task by cachers and reviewers alike? Let's hear the weigh in!

You must not own an iPhone. You would know better.

Me too! They were quick and courteous.