MKFmly
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Posts posted by MKFmly
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Anyone understand the GC souvenir message? Not really getting it at the moment, any hints?
Seme times you see a puzzle and wonder what's the hint for?
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One would hope someone that interacts with customers would know how to look past irrelevant emotional responses and focus on the problems. And, in fact, I've seen that done quite well by GS here in the forums and the reviewers everywhere. Has the emotional toll overwhelmed the lackeys' ability to respond?
They quite obviously do; those interactions (taking complaints, or disagreeing with your boss, or getting disciplined for something that wasn't your fault) impose emotional tolls regardless of how professional and detached you are. It's not in the Lackey's job description or the majority of others.
Rock Chalk lays it out there...
People here do try to do good work, but sometimes mistakes are made. Feel free to call us out on it. But I'm confident you can do it without being rude. Posts of this tone (which are coming from you with increasing frequency) are a big reason why more lackeys don't visit the forums. They don't mind constructive criticism. Just don't slather it with a big dollop of meanness.
Why can't they be cut some slack even if they don't respond in a forum thread? Oh right every "irrelevant emotional response" regarding a geocaching niggle is "entitled" to a response.
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FWIW, it's a catch-22 situation. You say Lackeys don't visit the forums because of frustrated members posting here, but the members would be far less frustrated if the Lackeys visited here more often and communicated what's happening. When we see no response from HQ (despite the fact that we've been told all posts get read), it gives a feeling of being ignored.
From a customer service perspective, people want their "stories" heard and that works well in person. Online, people feel much more free to cloud their issues with their "frustrations" and that can often make for a toxic atmosphere. Once people know they have an audience and can have there "frustrations" legitimised; they get "entitled" to personal Groundspeak attention, and it only gets worse not better.
It's more a "dammed if you do and dammed if you don't" situation.
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As geocaching is ofttimes referred to as the "language of location"; for us the date you visited the cache (any cache) is the "found" date, despite most alternate logging requirements, personal timelines, research time, etc. We also appreciate the conflict created with pre-signing grandfathered challenge caches (prior to qualifying) and are flexible enough to accept that deviation from the above stated position because it makes good sense. In our mind Location>>>ARL, YMMV.
It just seems the simple thing to do, regardless of any of the edge cases we can craft to obfuscate the situation while discussing the relative merits of 0.001 % of finds.
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nailed it!
Interesting reversal of perspective, that position has been presented all along from both sides of the discussion...
Unfortunately, the obligation on a party in a dispute to provide sufficient warrant for their position was placed on ohgood. To that end ohgood has provided no evidence to support his assertion, while in actuality factual evidence has been presented that disproves the assertion.
It's been good troll m8 (8/8 for b8) but the "prove it to me" ship has done so...
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They should have a rating system for players or something... give them a negative rating for holding onto trackables too long. But then I guess that might encourage not logging them at all...
I think this is a very good point. Not so much the negative side but rather the positive side. Encourage good behaviour for geocachers on travelbugs with a rating points. Also for caches/cacheowners: caches that help to move travelbugs fast (instead of keeping them for long time or even go missing) might get extra points. And prizes (like travel bug tags) if you have passed a very good rating mark.
Encouraging positive behavior is a great goal but within the context of a social media world; ratings both positive and negative are subject to farming and abuse. Even consider the slightly different context of farming and abuse of "favourite points" and what they indicate...
What makes you think someone who holds TB's cares about a rating?
It would at least give the rest of us a head's up if we see someone with a negative rating pick up a TB...
I'm struggling to see how a head's up, would be of any practical value and lead to less negative outcomes?
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Now it's 2016. For me, I do not notice any appreciable difference between my gpsr and phone. Studies from five and seven years ago are interesting in terms of the history of technological development, but not a measure of available science.
I understand your point and I find geocaches equally well with either as I have already stated.
However my counterpoint such as it is, was to question ohgood's empirical "accuracy" statement and attempt to refute it with factual evidence; and as there are no recent studies or results comparing the accuracy and precision of GPSr's vs. phones thus the "historical" studies (2009 and 2011) are the only measure of available science we have. Implying its five years later and assuming technological advances would much improve the comparison does not stand up to much scrutiny...
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I've returned home and placed the coordinates in google maps just to check if I'm in the right ball park and it's putting me out by about 50m.
Presupposing your entering the coordinates correctly and your using the Google Maps satellite imagery overlay...
It's a fairly well known problem where in many areas the overlaying satellite imagery map tiles do not line up with reality. One simple check would be to bring up the hybrid display (with roads) and see how close they line up with the imagery. The differences can vary by geographic area and map tile.
I would trust a good GPS measurement over anything Google Maps provides...
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I find we "challenge" ourselves to pursue similar things. The value in the "challenge" to us is accomplishing the goal not the sometimes obscure record on various websites. Whether or not the website recognises your streak is factually irrelevant to you accomplishing your goal.
We have a similar situation, our cache types found in a day is ten, however websites only recognises nine due to the fact that "lab caches" cannot be backdated (unbeknownst to us) as it took a few days to log. C'est la vie.
As to your particular issue, you have edited your found log for the offending cache/day now just be patient until the change works through the system and all should be fine.
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Once again replying to the question in the thread title (with the unstated caveats, that we are talking about handheld GPSr's and applying them to geocaching.), the answer is obviously yes.
ohgood
Suggesting that a smart phone can outperform a dedicated GPSr in the area of accuracy and precision is not supported by the available science.
The best studies to date are those by Dr. Paul Zandbergen at the University of New Mexico. In 2009 he published findings showing that an iPhone 3 had an average accuracy of 8 meters.Numerous anecdotal studies indicate that the iPhone 4S/5 has become more accurate. In 2011 Dr. Zandbergen tested several Android smart phones. Here he found the accuracies to be slightly better than the 2009 study. They ranged from 5-8 meters. It is likely that the iPhone 4S/5 is within this range as well. It can also be assumed that iPads and other Android tablets will be comparable.https://communityhealthmaps.nlm.nih.gov/2014/07/07/how-accurate-is-the-gps-on-my-smart-phone-part-2/
In the fields of science, engineering and statistics, the accuracy of a measurement system is the degree of closeness of measurements of a quantity to that quantity's true value. The precision of a measurement system, related to reproducibility and repeatability, is the degree to which repeated measurements under unchanged conditions show the same results. Although the two words precision and accuracy can be synonymous in colloquial use, they are deliberately contrasted in the context of the scientific method. -
OT
There used to be a rule, most of us anti-entitlement folks followed
If you don’t have anything nice (or relevant) to say, don’t say anything at all.It kind of says something about the state of the geocaching forum when any and all questions/comments are met with/subject to veiled and overt "ad hominem" comments.
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As for the website "geocacher-u.com" according to the wayback machine it was still alive (but likely dormant, last entrys seem to be 2011) in January 2016.
You may be able to find what your looking for through that service.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160113131800/http://geocacher-u.com/
Its not pretty but with patience and determination some of the downloads and articles are still available.
https://web.archive.org/web/20081203003020/http://www.geocacher-u.com/resources/stashnote-35mm.pdf
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I occasionally refer to this article "Understanding Geocaching Practices and Motivations; Kenton O’Hara" and as Mikos88 points out "it's not a bad or good thing to be one kind of cacher; it's your way of geocaching! And you don't necessarily need to fit one of those categories; there's a little bit of every category in you!"
What the motivations noted in the article can do is highlight the often polarizing perspectives (and even conflict) found in the forums from cachers with different prime motivations. My anecdotal observations indicate that "collectors" are quite prevalent in geocaching. Whether it be total finds, trackables, souvenirs, countries, cache types, FTFs, etc they want to be able to find anything and everything. This brings them into conflict with those who subscribe to other motivations namely "challenges" where not every cache is for everyone. As a challenge oriented cacher it's unfortunate Groundspeak has chosen to favour the collectors over the challenge focused cachers (whether self-imposed challenges or cache based) with the moratorium and systemic "dumbing down" of so called challenge caches. Further, there are sub groups who find motivation and identity through specifically NOT collecting (be it puzzles, power trails, urban caches, micros, souvenirs, anti-collectors as it were.
Social WalkingOne of the primary motivations for doing a geocache was because it created an opportunity to get out and walk. In this respect it is important to think about the activity not simply as a destination or a find. Rather, an integral part of the experience is the getting there. An important question then is why people simply didn’t just go on a walk. What is significant is how caching was used by people to give a walk a sense of purpose. This sense of purpose helped motivate participants to walk and engage in physical activity and without which they would be less inclined to go.
Discovering and Exploring PlacesA key motivation underlying participation was its use as away of discovering new places to go. In this respect, it was not so much the finding of a cache that was primary motivation but where it led to as a consequence of doing this treasure hunt.
CollectingAs an activity, geocaching was more than just the sum of the individual caching experiences. For many of the participants, there was a “collecting” ethos that was a significant part of the experience. The geocaching web site keeps a record of all the different caches a particular cacher or caching team have done. Their “collection” of cache finds as a whole was a demonstrable record of what they have achieved. Building this up was an important and ongoing driver for continued participation. Participants mentioned that they would not want to give this up visible sense of achievement. In this respect we cannot look for motivational and behavioural factors simply within the context of an isolated geocache experience. The significance and meaning of the next cache is dependent upon the context of what they have already collected and achieved.
Profile and statisticsPart of the value of these collecting practices within geocaching comes from being immersed within the social context of the geocaching community. As discussed in the social psychology literature on collecting, a person’s collection becomes bound up with doing identity work [15]. Consequently, there was value not simply in these collecting achievements per se but how they came to be represented to others. With this in mind, it is important to consider the ways this was enabled through the on-line environment and how this inextricably tied the location-based experience with accompanying on-line behaviour.
Challenge: individual and social aspectsFor many participants, one of the key driving factors for ongoing participation was that geocaching provided a number of sources of challenge. “I mean it’s a terrific challenge to be able to find it. I suppose that is it – it’s a challenge. I don’t like to be beaten. The longest we have spent looking is about an hour and a half and I don’t like to give up until I have found it.”
This is in line with the claims made in [18] about the location-based technologies providing value not simply by making it easy to get information at the right place and time but also by making it difficult. As we can see from the above quote, there was a sense that participants did not want to be beaten and will spend what on the face of it seems rather an irrational amount of time trying to locate the cache. But this gives a sense of the commitment to the challenge and level of motivation. Others spoke of how they would reluctantly give up on a particular occasion, but would often revisit the site again in an attempt to try again.For the Puzzle Caches there was also the additional challenge of solving problems to discover the particular coordinates for the cache. What was significant about these puzzles was they required a large amount of time investment to solve them and much of this work occurs away from the cache site. Because of this distribution of the experience away from the actual cache location, participants would sometimes email the cache owners to confirm that they had correctly solved the puzzle before embarking on a long journey to actually find the cache. This extension of the experience beyond the cache site was also an important part of how people maintained participation in the activity even when not convenient to be out and about.
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Replying to the question in the thread title, the answer is obviously yes.
(With the unstated caveats, that we are talking about handheld GPSr's and applying them to geocaching.)
what specific functions have you seen a stand alone GPS better at, than a smartphone?
1)"GPS navigation devices vary in sensitivity, speed, vulnerability to multipath propagation, and other performance parameters." Although the gap is narrowing the stand alone GPSr generally outperforms the smartphone in these areas. Thus in high multi-path (urban and heavy tree covered areas) my 7 year old GPSr still outperforms my smartphone in my own empirical observations. In open areas the difference is much less noticeable, but they both get me close enough to ground zero eventually. Again, my own empirical observations from finding various benchmarks; indicate that the dedicated GPSr is more "accurate" in a side by side comparison. (The quoted article in the OP basically confirms those findings.)
2)Power usage/Battery performance. Notwithstanding, all the tip, tricks, and (low cost) hacks people suggest to keep their phones powered, GPSr's are more power efficient. There is something comforting about having a couple of widely available, easily transportable, AA batteries available.
3)From a purely personal perspective I spend less time "messing" with the GPSr; select cache or enter waypoint... get searching. While the apps on the smart phone are too busy updating nearest caches, scrolling through lists, selecting the search technique, and doing other things in the background (social media logs) that time is wasted while it continually sorts itself out. I will say having access to the cache page/hints/logs/pics is nice if your up against a tough cache, but I could get that info through the browser vice the app anyway...
For me I have no problem using the smartphone for the easy or opportunity caches (or even harder ones), however anytime we are going off the beaten path we bring the GPSr.
So to summarize for ohgood: handheld GPSr; improved sensitivity, improved multi-path rejection, improved ionosphere modeling, improved accuracy, improved battery life and power management, ease of use... YMMV
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I really don't mind putting some effort into searching out these caches but it is a bit disheartening when so very few come up. I really feel that numbers are what drive most people these days. Geocaching is no longer about location. It's now a game to see how many you can get. Not really anything wrong if this is the game you want to play (majority rules i suppose) but it's not worth a hoot for us who desire quality, creativity, challenge, and/or nice location.
That statement illustrates your perception and attitude and shows how you have changed and perceive the activity differently.
CR states it well.
If you judge your accomplishments based on others', then you'll often feel disappointed. The view from the high peak is still spectacular, even when many people enjoy it. And if you climb up the side of the mountain to get there, then you get to enjoy the journey as well. Seems like a win-win situation to me.If cachers start looking within they may just find there is no difference between "New vs. Old".
If you examine the logs of new versus old, you may find there is a difference.
Sure, but not as big as you would expect especially taking off the rose coloured glasses. The only logs I control or worry about are OUR logs and they are the same or better...
You know from what's often posted on the forum that describes the "good ole" days exactly... and the cache may not even have been interesting...Filtered through them and guess what, only 1, 13 miles away, looks as though it might be slightly interesting to me. Other than this one, and a couple of events, the next is over 40 miles away. There may be LOADS of good caches out there but let's face it, i'd have to do LOADS of traveling to get to them. My current situation doesn't allow that... -
The leisure activity is still the same at the core, the fundamental difference between "New vs. Old" is the attitude, experience, and perception of the cacher.
... They point out that when people make judgments about things, they usually do it in relation to something else. For example, when they say that a concert is excellent, they mean that it is excellent compared to the concerts they have seen up to that point....
When we look back on events from our youth, we are likely to remember many things as being excellent, or awesome, or brilliant. We just forget how we decided on their excellence or brilliance. With a broader base of experience as an adult, it takes a lot for us to be truly awed. So we decide that things must have been better when we were younger.
The tools and techniques around the leisure activity may have evolved but the key activity is still there, even if you have to look harder within yourself to find it.
Most cachers regardless of start date will fondly (and nostalgically) recall the first 10, 50, or 100 caches because the new found bloom and enthusiasm of the activity was high. Most, if honest with themselves were mildly impressed with the first LPC they found regardless of their opinion now. The same goes for the triumph of the first nano find and how small they really are.
Now based on the breadth and depth of caching experiences you know what you like and what you don't like; what gives you that "nostalgic" good feeling and what gives you that downer of not another ________ cache.
If cachers start looking within they may just find there is no difference between "New vs. Old".
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But yet if someone is vandalizing your home you would want to have a camera and motion detected lights so you know who maybe vandaling YOUR home since it was mentioned that you OWN your caches and you want to protect them.
I thought we were talking about "Who's watching my cache". Okay, let's do this again and forget about the house because there is a significant difference between home ownership and cache ownership with respect to the related rights and expectations of each while on your own private property and that of public space.
If someone places their "property" on public land (for the sake of argument with permission) and publishes it online for the purposes of the public to view, find, and interact with such "property" there is no expectation of privacy. In fact you are knowingly putting your "property" at risk. If someone is uncomfortable with that risk they can take some measures to mitigate the risk (or just not do it), HOWEVER that "desire" for surveillance and protection does not trump others expectations (not to mention legal rights) of privacy in public.
Seriously, 99.9 percent of people are fine citizens and to assume guilt before innocence is contrary to societal values. I fail to see how any amount of "amateur profiling" of who drove past my parked car five times in the Walmart parking lot; provides any peace of mind let alone prevents any wrong doing.
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To me it's like a Peeping Tom, kinda not fair if they are watching (stalking) your cache page you should have the right to see who they are. If you want to abolish audits then they should abolish watchlists too.
A cache listing is voluntarily published on a publicly available website designed for cachers to search, share, review, and download cache listings. To then assert an expectation of privacy is a far-fetched.
If someone drives by a house on their way to work/school/hobby (once or many times) and see and enjoy the seasonal display someone has in the yard, they are not "peeping toms". However the owner of said display, lurking in the garage noting down licence plate numbers and wondering who drives by to look at their seasonal display X times a day is ...
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One of the most interesting things to me was up around post 31 or so when there was a side discussion with a chart showing average IQ's in decline year-by-year.
Having just reviewed the accompanying article to the chart Roman provided, I don't put too much faith in the "paper" and the resulting speculation. http://uhaweb.hartford.edu/BRBAKER/
Also bear in mind that most IQ comparision results are normalized to IQ 100, thus the noted confusion with the perception of the "average IQ" being 100.
When current IQ tests are developed, the median raw score of the norming sample is defined as IQ 100 and scores each standard deviation (SD) up or down are defined as 15 IQ points greater or less, although this was not always so historically. -
With a little trial and error I used the following:
<div class='stat' style='position:relative; top:-195px; left:66px; height:0px;'> <img style="vertical-align:sub" src='/images/icons/32/dnf.png' alt='' height="16" width="16" /> 104 DNF Logs</div> <div class='stat' style='position:relative; top:-195px; left:105px; height:0px;'> <img style="vertical-align:sub; margin-left:5px" src='http://imgcdn.geocaching.com/cache/large/3e232525-2acb-49ad-a68c-e663e96ac032.gif' alt='' height="16" width="16" /> 143 GC43F3 - Brass Cap Cache Logs</div> <div class='stat' style='position:relative; top:-195px; left:114px; height:0px;'> <img style="vertical-align:sub; margin-left:5px" src='http://imgcdn.geocaching.com/cache/large/4e28ea3f-085f-42d5-9cf5-8ff6b08e980d.png' alt='' height="16" width="16" /> 07 Challenge Caches</div> <div class='stat' style='position:relative; top:-215px; left:-59px; height:0px;'> <img style="vertical-align:sub; margin-left:5px" src='/images/wpttypes/2.gif' alt='' height="16" width="16" /> 34 Hidden Caches</div>
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Move the oft maligned and so called "powertrails" and "geoart" to a new GS listing site "powercaching.com"; and then provide it the same priorty and attention as Wherigo while providing the community group/category officer interface/hierarchy of Waymarking and the same resources as both...
You're fired.
Create a professional geocacher league and start keeping indepth stats like other sports do.......Rookie cards.LOL. But you are missing the big picture Roman, what would powercaching.com be without stats and not just stats but "indepth powerstats", clans, leagues, teams, rankings, playoffs. Much like a co-op there would be a rebate system where for every 10 caches logged you get $.005 towards your "power" annual membership...how can you argue with that?
...rookie cards would just lose all credibility ...
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Move the oft maligned and so called "powertrails" and "geoart" to a new GS listing site "powercaching.com"; and then provide it the same priorty and attention as Wherigo while providing the community group/category officer interface/hierarchy of Waymarking and the same resources as both...
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How can you tell if permission is legit ?
In short you can't.
Generally, most cachers informally review permission (based on their personal standards that vary widely) when they seek caches anyway.
You get a feel for it. And you read signs. And you know which areas are okay under the "Frisbee rule" of implied permission. And if the "vibe" is off, you go elsewhere.This liesure activity is based on a degree of trust, if the CO indicates permission granted (and even when they don't) we have to assume they have done the due dilligence. To assume otherwise is unworkable for the activity.
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Another new user with stupid questions :)
in How do I...?
Posted
Isn't the app crippled because of "listening" to the "forum feedback"? It been long established in these forums that unvalidated new casual cachers destroy/remove caches, steal trackables, and leave lame logs ...