GawnFishin

While this is terrible news indeed it is best to remember that accidents can happen at any time. In two years I have had two very near misses with falling trees once wrecking the quad which I was riding and the second taking me to the ground and earning me a few days off work. I work in forest research and if you take your mind off what your doing and where your going nasty things can happen very quickly, keep a closer eye on where you are going and less on the GPSr itself. It takes very little for a beautiful day to turn to tragedy.

What I think I'd like to do is find as many people as possible who are interested in doing this. I had given thought to this being held some time in late spring next year as my equipment situation isn't as I would currently like it to be. So far I'm still without observing equipment of my own, though I'm working towards a new Meade LX90 8" SCT to use as my travel scope. I have worked for Observatories doing public awareness of astronomy and have attened several star parties. Now that I'm getting closer to having my own equipment at last I thought why not see who else is interested in getting something like this organised. Maybe even an annual event, anyway I had thought we could do some type of whole "Geo-Astro weekend" where people could get an understanding of astronomy, satellites, what it takes to get a satellite into orbit and, how stars were used in navigation. I had thought of using Iridium flares as well as a host of other satellites. But at this stage it's just talk, ideas need to be discussed so planning can begin. So I'm trying to get the ball rolling or should I use the phrase let the countdown begin. Anyway ideas for location, activities, and anything that might be useful are welcome. I live in Abitibi and have so far been looking at possible sites along the Quebec Ontario border. I live approximately 16km from a fairly small town with very little light pollution, I have an observing site I like which is about 40km from any light and really nice and dark but for anyone in Ottawa this is going to be a nine hour drive, it would be a weekend event but how far are people willing to drive?

ju66l3r: As to your wanting an explanation in regard to how I came about the thread what does it matter, page three or whatever to me when reading it the topic seemed current and relevant, so who cares. Your desire to pass comment on the fact that an old thread had been revived rather than let it just die only demonstrates that you must have some sort of problem with it. If you had just let the thread die again naturally what would it have mattered? Or is it that as the board Mod you felt it was necessary to warn me about such activity, Ok I'm so warned feel better.

I appologise for upseting you delicate sense of right or wrong in this forum but I came across this thread and the topic on page three and it seemed relevant to currant issues. I didn't bother to check the date as page three on any other forum I generally post to wouldn't be that over a year old. I don't read every posted thread as most seem to be filled with mundane chatter and as this one which as I stated was only on page three I didn't see the harm in replying however I will check more carefully in future sorry if I have offended any one... Remember that there is nothing stable in human affairs; therefore avoid undue elation in prosperity, or undue depression in adversity. -Socrates

Firstly, I don't see why virts can't be listed seperately as are benchmarks. I believe this would solve alot of the problems mentioned, though being new here I can't say for certain. As for locationless caches I can see these being a real benefit in research purposes with all sorts of possibilities the search for geological oddities and such. As for the approval process I don't see why there can't be some sort of working arrangement where an approver could ask for another cacher who lives in the area to check whether or not a cache is suitable. I'm in the middle of doing this for another cacher at present. The approver wasn't satisfied with the cache, the cache owner whom I had met a week or so before sent me an email and asked me if I lived in the area of his cache and asked if I would look at the cache and present a for or against to the cache approver. Admitedly I'll not get the FTF award but who cares, there's another cache in my area and for me that's a good thing(I [expletive deleted] hate making Martha comments). I'd also agree with cache ratings by the finder to help reduce the number of what-a-waste-of-time caches. Having other cachers who live within the area of a cache helping to determine the suitability of a cache in my opinion has to be a benefit, that way caches in question are dealt with seemingly fairly, I'll also admit that after thinking about it there are going to be people who wont like this arrangement either.

Yes, roque cachers have been a recent problem. I'm not sure, though, why you want to turn this thread into a land use issue when the topic has more to do with BCGA participation in a TV interview with a junior reporter for a local station doing a puff piece for the local news. Maybe you should start a thread about land use issues and dealing with land managers. Judging from your posts and your profile, it sounds like you have a wealth of experience to share. (Bolding mine) Sorry if I may just quote the OP for you. (Again bolding mine)

Actually it's your apparent desire to keep your activity so secretive which draws suspicion. I'm glad to hear so. What then is your problem rogue cachers? Wouldn't being better organised help solve these problems? Being so secretive would make me less inclined to open areas I was managing to your activity. Although being a caher I can understand where you are coming from but I think your getting it all wrong.

Read my nick name and then go to this thread and see what some of us are trying to do I have read the page you linked to and if I may say the group in general or at least some of us are coming off as. 1. Not wanting of public awareness 2. Want little in the way of organising besides to seek permission for a select few to use public areas. 3. Are content to be an activity mainly organized through a U.S. web site with contact being a lone Canadian approver. I could be wrong and I hope I am, give me this benefit being new here myself. In my line of work, actively seeking land use approval usually means presenting yourself as a properly structured organisation with all information open and available to everyone. Actively speaking with media and presenting proposed land use including the positive and negative aspects of such use. Strangely we never seem to have much difficulty getting land use approval.

I was thinking more along the lines of a camping star party type weekend, with a cache hunt into the site then maybe we could have some members with telescopes doing observing sessions after dark. Rather than using an observatory or organised astronomy club events.

This is not personal but gawnfishin should take his own advice here and maybe learn about all the issues they are talking about in BC and not just this thread. And what would your point be? Some places are being destroyed by ignorant cachers or that access to certain areas is being limited? If some areas are already being damaged or destroyed by ignorant cacher then wouldn't you want to some how control geocaching in you area with a club or something similar where everyone could see who the worst offenders are? But I see from "the sandbox" that an association of cachers in BC is really an unpopular idea. Go figure. I'm not necessarily interested in the issues within BC as it is not in my backyard so to speak. I do know that we are losing areas in the east and what other way do you propose that we regain access to these areas? Certainly parks departments aren't going to be very receptive to our ideas if we are not open about what we do and not presenting ourselves well.

Gorak Geocaching by it's very nature is telling people about your favourite fishing spot. See where you analogy fails. So you don't want to publicize the fact that your posting the location of your favourite fishing spot, well sorry you can't stop that from happening people are going to talk. As for lobbying well let's see, we seem to be losing access to various public areas such as Parks Ontario and SEPAQ controlled parks in Quebec and probably a lot of other areas around the country, are these areas lost forever? Well we just might have to lobby the government to regain access to these areas and to do this is would be much easier if we had some good media coverage wouldn't you think? You do realise there are bans on certain so called public areas? Does this concern you? Or are you just going to disregard these bans and make it harder for everyone else in the long run? Now I can see why you don't want to draw attention to what we do.

The issue of media integrity (an oxymoron if I ever saw one) is not really my main concern. My biggest concern is the media raising more public awareness of caching to the point that various regulators feel they need to address the activity by somehow regulating it. With an active governing body or association of Geocachers lobbying MP's and the media and presenting OUR side of the story we better promote what we do and who we are. Sure I can see how the media might run headlines about "Nutcase conspiracy theorists leaving covert messages amongst the rocks for fear of the goverment finding out what they do". Or should we present ourselves to the media explain what we do and that we are not enviromental terrorists, and promote CITO events and the like, demonstrating that we are approachable friendly and enviromentally conscious because this would certainly be more convincing to government departments the next time we ask for permission to use parks and public areas. Wouldn't you agree? Don't assume, you'd be wrong but I can work with the analogy. I would be keen to talk to people about fishing just as I would Geocaching I would show them a couple of nice fishing spots(Caches) but I wouldn't necessarily tell them about all the great fishing spots. I would expect them to do their home work also and find some of their own caches (I mean fishing spots). I would if it was my position to talk openly about fishing and explain how responsible fishermen practice enviromentally friend caching activities (Oops I meant fishing habits). I would encourage other fishermen to be considerate of others when fishing by being open about promoting healthy caching activities. Lead by example, do not hide in shame. Because ultimately if your going to hide people are going to think your hiding something and will tend to think less of you and your activity. Maybe, but hiding under a rock while someone else tells everyone about your little secret only protects it for so long and, eventually others will find out as they are already finding out about geocaching. So why not control the information before someone else takes all the control out of your hands completely and present us all badly. Being in control or at least being active in the process of spreading the information will only attract those who are genuinely interested anyway. People are going to find out about geocaching anyway no matter what you do. As is evident by the new members who keep joinging. How can you possibly know that all of these people are well intentioned people? You can't! Stopping the publicity doesn't stop asshats from finding out about geocaching it only reduces the number, beside as has already been asked who is going to spend $200 on a GPSr to destroy a $10 cache?

If you have some thing to hide or the media is trying to expose a corrupt situation then I suppose you wouldn't want the media involved because be dadgum sure they wouldn't necessarily be interested in the story you expressly want told. This is a sport! Do you see the difference? We are not trying to cover things up! We have not done anything wrong. All we want to do is introduce people to new things, maybe encourage someone to get their lazy butts outdoors and understand the nature and land they live on. Very bad thing this must be and I can understand why the media would portray this in such a bad light. Don't you think this is a little bit too much conspiracy theory? When was the last time the news media portrayed the Olympics badly, probably only when cheating and drugging is involved. Personally I think this is a good thing because then bad people get caught, not good people. Also further to my argument... From here. From here. Have a read of some of the horror stories listed on that last link, geocaching will never recover.

Just wondering if we had any amateur astronomers in our midst. I'm getting a new more portable telescope soon and have been thinking about posting a weekend cache in star party type deal. Perhaps next spring. Once Ive scouted out a nice remote location. Any thoughts?

Hey I got an idea! Why don't we stop listing our caches all together, you never know, the wrong people might find out about them.

I believe anyone with this attitude is a perfect example of the wrong demographic. Anyone who think that the media is going to present whatever story they want with complete disregard to the people who participate in an activity is certainly wearing a tin hat that's a few sizes troo small.

Work with the media to convey the image of the sport you wish to portray. Though it is true your not going to get the exact coverage you want every time out but hell it's got to be better than being totally rejected every time for having an elitist attitude... If you don't work with the media to try to get the type of promotion you would like then the media will have an open day portraying your sport the way they want. Now what is the better option? Work with them or against them? I can only imagine the type of story a journalist would write after talking to some of the posters from around here.

But if we try keeping it secret and it's a hobby for the "in" crowd only then I can see it getting harder for us to expect government bodies(read Parks Department) to open "public" areas for use by an exclusive crowd. Maybe it should be harder to find the cache locations, for example country specific associations and memberships required to access cache location information on a per country basis. Also maybe there number of caches is a problem for you but once I've done the ten or so in my area then I've got hundreds of kilometers to travel to find another cache, I'd like to see more caches in my area as it is now the closest cache to me is 70km as the crow flies. Remember also that just because you may not like a certain cache for whatever reason doesn't mean other may not find it enjoyable.

I was introduced to Geocaching through the TV and I'm totally glad to have found out about it. The problem isn't the method of promotion it's the people, those who willingly destroy caches are a royal PITA to everyone not just cachers! Or are we attempting to make this an exclusive activity? Healthy promotion with an active agenda of approaching governments openly and actively seeking cooperation with land managers such as Parks departments, I feel it can only be a good thing not to mention programs like CITO can only go to high lite our activity as being environmentally friendly. I agree you have to make the best with what you've got, though I think we need to get more coverage and be prepared to do the hard work to show that our activity is indeed healthy, otherwise I might as well take off the geocaching.com stickers I've now got on my car. You know...don't want anyone else to find out what I'm doing... dadgum I knew that guy who asked me about geocaching was going to destroy every cache he could find, I just couldn't help myself...I had to talk...