BlueRajah
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Posts posted by BlueRajah
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It's valid to take the time and think of new ideas. It's good to have ideas from newcomers. The hard part is wiring through the problems. Cheaters are the biggest issue. I can check the log, and I can delete a cheaters log. I have done it before and gotten hate mail. Solving that issue may allow it to happen if the website did the checking, but I don't see the return on investment for HQ.
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22 hours ago, niraD said:
But providing students with a page with blanks to fill in, using information from an article or other written material, is very much an educational task. Having specific questions to answer and/or blanks to fill in helps direct the student's focus while reading the article, and writing the information in the blank spaces helps the learning process. But I digress...
True, but the GSA and HQ have decided that it is not, and it has been there since the help center info was placed there. From the help center, the section with unacceptable tasks covers it. That is clearly the info I was given when i was instructed to review in 2010.
QuoteAn EarthCache teaches an earth science lesson. The cache page must include logging tasks that help teach the same lesson. Remember that the EarthCache is based on the world around us, not on an informational sign at the EarthCache site. Geocachers must complete the tasks before they log the EarthCache as found.
Acceptable logging tasks
- Questions that can only be answered by visiting the site.
- Questions that allow geocachers to demonstrate what they have learned.
- Open questions, like "what/why/how do you think...?"
- Questions that ask geocachers to compare geological features. For example, “Compare the shale layer to the one above it? How does it compare in thickness/color/hardness? How do you think this difference has occurred?”
- Asking geocachers to provide a photo of themselves or a personal item to prove they visited the site. A personal item must be an option for those who do not want to photograph themselves. This task is acceptable only as an addition to well-developed logging tasks, not as a substitution.
Tip: Tasks that require geocachers to take measurements are only accepted if they allow people to demonstrate what they have learned.
Unacceptable logging tasks
- Questions that can be answered without visiting the site, such as stating an elevation reading.
- Questions that assume prior knowledge of geology, such as "What type of rock is found here?"
- Asking geocachers to research the topic online.
- Asking geocachers to quote information from a sign.
- Asking geocachers to take measurements that do not relate to the earth science lesson and only prove that they visited the site. For example, “Measure the height of the boulder.”
Important: Provide the answers to your logging tasks and how the finder can determine them, in a Reviewer Note on the cache page. Reviewer Notes are automatically deleted when a cache is published.
You can use a sign, you just cant ask people to
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these formations or intendations are commonly refered to as Tafoni. See here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tafoni
If there is not one nearby on the subject, it is not a difficult Earthcache to put together.
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2 hours ago, Neos2 said:
I could clarify. ...
Yes I agree with your statement. Using a sign for information, and using it for educational material, and even names of something that they will need to identify in a task. But going to a mine site and asking a simple, "what minerals were mined here" most likely would not work.
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I had written an answer, but discussion seemed to hijack this thread, so I split it off into its own thread with the replies.
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On 12/31/2023 at 9:28 AM, Neos2 said:
It is still possible for the creator of an EarthCache to use the information on the sign to develop the EarthCache learning activity. In fact, it is a really great starting place. You ask yourself: "What do I really want them to learn?" and often the answer is "the data on the sign" so then you figure out how to get them to learn that.
Hzio covered that above, and agree with him. I saw a number of Earthcaches that use the signs rather than including the educational material on the cache page. So you went there to gather the educational background to do the tasks. Howver, like Hzio mentions, there is a risk. Speaking with someone that worked at a US national park, they try and update the signs every 7-10 years. That gives new data, graphics, and wording. So you could lose the info you are teaching if the sign changes. I know of one that changed from a geology of an overlook, to one that taught the history that took place there. They had found more people were interested in the history, than the geology. Geology was a footnote.
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I decided that this was high jacking the other thread too much. So I pulled this apart from the thread "Are Earthcaches Dying"
On 12/30/2023 at 9:18 PM, Neos2 said:https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=51&pgid=296
Perhaps about the time of the update dated 10 June, 2019?
Hopefully BlueRajah will answer that and other interesting bits of data in another post.2010 had this line in the guidelines
QuoteLogging of an EarthCache must involve visitors undertaking some educational task that relates to the Earth science at the site. This could involve measuring or estimating the size of some feature or aspect of the site, collecting and recording data (such as time of a tidal bore), or sending an e-mail to the cache owner with the answer to Earth science related questions they obtained by reading an information display.
Pulling some words from a sign is not an educational task.
That was clarified in 2013 when the guidelines added links to the Help Center. 2013 started one of the flaws of the guidelines. The guidelines started to exist in two places. They were listed on the GSA website (like today) with links to the help center where the definitions were locations. The helps center stated acceptable and non acceptable logging tasks. "Asking geocachers to quote information from a sign" was added then.
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I was geoawareusa2 for more than a decade. I agree with most of brcross95's thoughts. Have things slowed. Yes, in many instances because the easy ones are gone, and people can't publish an identical one a mile away. I saw many submissions that were identical and sometimes even copied earthcaches nearby.
I thought i would give some perspective and history.
Originally, some first earthcaches were changed from virtuals to Earthcaches. After that point, you filled out a page on a website and sent in the information to the Geological Society of America. Geoaware would then review it, create a page and publish it and adopt it out. Over time that changed, but every earthcache from inception until around October 2008 was reviewed by him, and in 2009 he added one other from his office at the Geologic Society of America to help handle the surge. This resulted in very long publishing times (months after submission), and little communication. Many caches were published from this era that the GSA has regretted because they were rushed doing this at work and doing their full time jobs. There were many requirements that might seem really odd. You had to submit your cache page in English (because only those few reviewed them), he emailed your contact at a National Park to verify permission was granted, etc.
In 2009/10 we saw a surge of reviewers selected, and 2010 saw the release of a major rewrite in the guidelines for their use. I think originally, almost all the reviewers were chosen from the regular geocache reviewer pool. They had experience reviewing, and the team was more global, and that would expand over the years. This allowed more local reviewers and would eventually allow for earthcaches to be written and reviewed in their local language. Because of seeing the responsiveness, and more reviewers to answer questions, I think that is why you see the huge surge in 2010 and into 2011, as we cleared the backlog, and many new submissions came in.
We had a surge in caching interest in the mid 2010s, and that corresponded to an increase in Earthcache submissions. It also corresponded to a 2013 release of a major rewrite of the guidelines that had been extensively overhauled by the work of many people. If I recall, that was the first relaxing of the permission guideline that had been in place since the start. (the GSA enforced permission while they were reviewing, even though it was not written in the guidelines). I believe this led to a huge increase in submissions in Europe, as the rewrite meant many areas no longer required written permission.
Are there areas that have slowed? Yes. Some areas saw large numbers of submissions, then the person submitting them stopped publishing, and few have kept it up. Others never saw much interest. It is far more difficult to publish an earthcache on farmland in the plains than in mountains. A few simple locations may be all there is. I think the numbers are still healthy. Though slowed from the last two years.
I was going to post more info on the guidelines, but that is more for a separate thread. I think other than the 2009 and 2013 guideline changes, there have been none that really affect the publishing numbers drastically.
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Fire. Needing a lighter or candle.
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It looks like the GSA either changed location or changed the link.
I am not sure these are the original sizes but here are some links
It took them straight to the pics. right click on the pictures and copy image address.
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It has to be in the local language, and you have to have the translation done. The website does not do that for you.
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18 minutes ago, GeoVet91 said:
To be clear, our logs & photos will be removed, correct? Our number of finds will show only on our public profile & not on our statistics GC page (since they are not there now). And the link to the NGS page will be gone, correct? As soon as Tuesday?
Thank you for the clarity.
The way I understand it, yes they will go away. However, not instantly. Sometime in the next few months when website upgrades are coded, tested and approved. Those pages will not be updated. A two-week warning was given because the date may be as early as Tuesday. Plus, it may not be all at once.
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8 hours ago, Stachey Pete said:
Can we at least get a day or two notice of the shutdown of logging. Benchmarking was never added to the app so logging in the field is not easy. I would not want to spend my day trying to find a precious few more benchmarks only to not be able to log them when I get home.
The announcement gave 2+ weeks warning, saying it will be "Sometime after November 1, 2022 and before the end of the year"
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I have found a number of benchmarks, and recovered some buried and hidden. They were treasure hunts. However, as a player I know that it does not warrant work when no one is using it, there is no owner to check logs, and it is decades out of date. I do not know this for sure, as I have heard no discussions, but eventually you have to put work into it or it breaks as you update the rest of the site. Your coding is decades out of date and will require a major overhaul. And it is for the 75 people that used it in a summer month to log 200 of them. One of those people was myself, finding a half dozen. Sad to see, but I could see it coming years ago, just sad we finally got there.
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3 minutes ago, Jffok said:
Will our previous found challenge caches that involved bench marks be deleted from our found caches? That would not be fair at all.
No, the caches will just be archived. So your finds will still be there.
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You can find the reviewer for your area by looking for newly published caches and then looking at the name of the person that published them. I assume that is what you are meaning? or for another reason?
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I am assuming you are looking for advice?
Contact the museum for permission and what you want to do. Outside is ideal. i have found a number of caches chained to the a post or a bush. You can also use something less expensive than an ammo can and hide it in the bushes.
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I believe you need this page https://www.geocaching.com/notify/default.aspx
Check where the coords of all your notifications are set to be from.
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Is your reviewer saying it is an issue? or just in submitting it where the problem takes place?
If it is the reviewer he should understand with an explanation. If it is just the HQ cache creation process, just move through it and submit it with an explanation. I ignore Earthcaches and Virtuals in my review if they block another cache.
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If it was very long ago, most likely not. I do not unarchive caches that were archived more than a few months ago. I never do if the owner does not go out and check on it and someone else replaced it, or finds it, except in very rare circumstances.
It is the cache owners responsibility to make sure it is there. You may have had it disabled for some time, or archived it after a reviewer noted there may be an issue. Yet problems are yours to see it taken care of or send someone to take care of. If they were archived for maintenance issues by the reviewer or yourself, it is rare it will be unarchived without a visit by you to the location. (in my book)
Every cache is different, every situation. So this is more of a general rule.
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You will need to have a logbook if it is a traditional. In order to list it i as a virtual you would need to have been granted a virtual a year ago. They have only allowed a few virtuals every few years.
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Moving to the GPS forum. This sounds like settings in GPS
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59 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:
And, at least to my knowledge, each of those stickers would need to be listed as physical waypoints since it's something the owner has left physically at the location, as opposed to looking at something that already existed there.
Correct.
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19 minutes ago, arisoft said:
I was recently informed by a reviewer that QR-code in a multi-cache is ok, if the description says that the cache needs reading QR-codes. What the code contains is another story. I have not wery well informed how much, if any, use of internet is allowed with a multi-cache. For example, I have got mixed signals wether it is allowed to use geochecker as a required part of a multi-cache.
This is just me as a reviewer in my area.
If the QR code give your coordinates to the next point. I treat those as if you posted a label with the next coordinates. You could have it as a multi. If each step has you solve a cypher, puzzle, or needing to figure out a code to enter into a checker, I would say those run a mystery. I am sure there are grey areas in between, but that would be my general rule. I do not know how prevalent that idea is in the reviewer community. However that is my thought process.
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Improvement proposal: digital logging of geocaches instead of on paper
in General geocaching topics
Posted
The ROI is the entire package. Companies pass on more revenue all the time. Does it interfere with current plans, or more than we can deal with. The company that I work for passed on a lot of new projects. We did not have the expertise, or the capital, to double the projects we worked on. You can grab short term money, but you need to pay for programming development and maintenance, unless you hire more, that means the sprints the teams make now would be delayed. So you are pushing off other updates. You have to pay to combat cheaters, pay customer service who will deal with angry cheaters. Do we need more employees. Do we have the space if so. Does it mean delaying critical site upgrades, or meaning you cant expand in another planned direction.
I will not say its impossible, but there is always a cost analysis done. I don't think it is there, but maybe. Other sites proved that there was some money to be made. Would that help/hurt. Imagine you having to pay $5 a year for an adventure lab credit. Some would do it. Others would not. Maybe it would be worth it, maybe not. In essence, you are proposing a extra premium cache. It is an interesting thought .