Olewaif

No effort logs.. YOu do NOt have to write me a book.. BUT I worked toplace a cache for you and I get ' FOUND ' or ' TFTC ' or recently on a series, a string of " . " geeez Thanks so much for your appreciation .

Cache containers are screw top pill bottle ( 6-8 oz )and so far all reports say they are dry.: Trail is gated at EVERY crossing.. both sides with locks AND is patrolled by folks enabled to write tickets. Anyone caught ( there are a LOT of hikers/bikers and they will take plate numbers or photos ( EVERYBODY had an Iphone.. you'll get busted) with any powered vehicles get ticketed. This trail IS open to snowmobiles in mid-winter but You do NOT want to step off groomed trail once snow gets deep... sink to your butt. We get some serious snow here from Jan-March. I suppose you COULD snowmobile along.. stop.. don snowshoes.. trudge around off trail to find cache.. get back on snowmobile etc. I wouldn't want to do it. Like I said this is a working mans ' power' trail.. however you get them. The Confederation Bridge 2-way toll is $43.25 charged ONLY when leaving the Island. It's quite a structure. It was privately built and came in under budget (1 Billion) and on time. If government had built it it would still be under construction and would have cost a gazillion bucks ..lol.

More information Re CTGP (Confederation Trail Geocache Project) : Containers: All containers are small to medium sized camouflaged pill bottles with smaller plastic vials inside, containing the log. They are meant to last. So far there has been no reports of problems with the cache containers. Hides : Caches are hidden for the most part (98 % +) on the back sides of trees. The CT trail is treed along almost its entire length. None are meant to be visible from the trail. When we did the trail after release we moved a few caches that were visible as needed to assure( as much as possible) that muggling wouldn't happen. Some are as close as a couple meters from trail.. most from 5- 20 meters .. a VERY few more than that. All are on old railway allowance land ( railways were closed and rails torn up in late 1980's), which in PEI is public land. This placement was done WITH the permission (and assistance) of the PEICT Authority. Finding times vary from a matter of seconds to several minutes. In a few cases our group of 8- 10 bikers took 10 or so minutes to find a cache. If this was due to a coord problem , that was addressed. if it was just that the trees were denser and the hide better than average.. that's how it stayed. This was never intended to be a classic " get--a-crap-load-of-caches worth NO effort group. It took the group I cached the CT with this past summer THIRTEEN pretty full days of biking ( spread out over several weekends) to find the entire CT group. Some others who've done them have been a bit ( but only a bit) faster , most are taking longer. A GOOD realistic fairly full day average on the CT would be about 75-90 caches. That would entail a bike/hike of about 15-25kms. Click on any CT cache to see the general write-up for the group for additional information and also feedback from cachers. I might also draw your attention to the AGCA website where a number of forum threads on the CT exist. Re Accomodations , amenities etc. The CT has numerous rest stops with toilets , picnic tables etc. plus it crosses many roads where you can access the very many tourist facilities ( lots of camp grounds etc)the Island offers. This is a major tourist destination with a lot of other attractions and all the amenities you'd expect. I knew when I posted the original on this thread that the anti-any-power-trail idea people would be out and posting. Negative-feeling people (on ANY topic) are ALWAYS more vocal and likely to post. That's their privilege. They also are not required by any one to GO on a power trail. For those who do like them, the CTCP is new and we think it's pretty unique. I like a varied caching experience myself and both place and cache for P/G's , puzzle caches, multis, earth caches and small or single caches on quite difficult hiking-only trails ( of which there are several on PEI) . There's around four thousand caches on PEI... we're not that small at about 180 miles long by from 4 to 30ish miles deep. Lots of sq miles in there. It's about choice. Pick what you like. Ignore what you don't. Many cachers come to our Island and don't do any CT caches.. that's fine. They can still cache for weeks here and find the caching experience they want.

The Confederation Trail Cache Project ( CTCP) has resulted so far in 1,177 geocaches placed and released along the C.T. in Prince Edward Island, .Canada. The trail is so far over 240 Kms. long and exists along the old railbeds ( the Railroad was discontinued on ' the Island " in the late '80's ). This trail is a bike/hike only trail and thus is NOT like the ET power trail, in that you can NOT expect 400+ caches per day. Instead you might reasonably score about a hundred caches a day. The CTCP was created by a dedicated group of PEI cachers using the 'convenience name' of ' geowhacker. This 'power trail' is already attracting interest from cachers near and far. The group winds through scenic and relatively easy to navigate trail from one end of the province to the other. All caches are within 20 meters of the trail and are usually fairly easy finds. There is still room for more caches on some of the old railroad spur lines and it is likely that by the time the CTCP is completely finished next year , it will total out at around 1600-1700, which would make it the longest trail on Earth by a comfortable margin. Power trails are not everyones ' cup-of-tea ' but this trail has already won accolades from both power-trailers and those not so much into that a typical PT, as it demands and delivers a difference experience. As one of the small group responsible for this projects, I would like to invite all to come to the beautiful " Gentle Island " and cache our trail!

In Prince Edward Island , the Greenwich section of the PEI National Park has a four-part trail which takes you on a hiking tour of that part of the Park. There's a cache with log to sign at each of four places. It's about 2 hours of hiking to finish and at the end you can claim a quite nice geocoin from the Parks Interpretive Centre. My wife and I did this one in August and quite enjoyed it. It is only available in summer however.

When is a ' power trail ' not exactly a power trail? Answer: When it's the CTCP. This project in Canada's smallest province, Prince Edward Island, has been 'in the works ' for several months and has now reached its fruition. On July 15th the first 246 caches of the total of 1200 + caches which will make up the final tally for this group were released. Another 250 or so will be released on July 29th ( reviewers efforts being equal to task ) and so on until the Confederation Trail. a bike or hike only trail running across the entire width of PEI is completely covered. The entire group should be out and waiting by fall. A group of dedicated PEI cachers ( of which I am but one) began meeting and working on this project over the winter.. we had a number of cache preparation 'bee' events and began actual cache placing in mid June. To date over 700 caches are in place . Existing caches on this trail are being respected so if you are new here you will have 1300 + caches in your sights. The entire CT is 400 or so kilometers ( about 250 miles) long, including several spur lines. It exists on the old railroad beds ( trains disappeared here over 20 yrs ago. ). The trail is a really scenic, mostly flatish ( trains could only do gentle grades of course) and is well-maintained as part of the Canadian Trail system. The CT caches require work though. NO motor vehicles are allowed on the trail ( except snowmobiles in winter) so it's walk or bike. It's reasonable to assume that a dedicated small group will be able to log about a hundred or so caches a day on this trail. There's a plethora of great sights, accommodations, food places and so on etc etc along the route. PEI has a moderate climate, not hot. nor cold. The CTCP is a great group in a beautiful location. I look forward to meeting all cachers ' from away ' as they say on the ' Gentle Island '. Come. Cache. Enjoy.

I started caching mid August last year and placed my first hide a month later... I had about 120 finds at the time. I decided I did need to give back by placing hides but I certainly made my share of mistakes early on with some less-than-durable caches. I've replaced those as needed and now place hides that I think will be low maintenance. I have also tried to have a find/hide ratio of about 10/ 1 .. at present I have 1260 finds and 119 published hides with some others placed but not yet released, so I'm about on target. I do not know if I can keep this ratio up but we'll see. I just started doing other-then-traditional hides and have lots more of those planned too. I enjoy both side of the sport, love finding and enjoy dreaming up, making and placing hides, with now placing caches in more challenging terrain or with more devious hides as a fun aspect for me. I do NOT think my way is the only way , I think we all need to find our comfort level re making hides but I do agree that a little finding experience is a good idea as you get to see the good, bad and ugly that way before you try placing hides. I also do think that if you have a LOT of finds and no hides, you really should consider the ethics of being only a user and not a giver. I really think if you can go out and find a lot, you can also go out and place at least some for others to find.

Way to GO !! Niceto know there is good samaritans still around.

Yeah it was actually a cache you had hidden in kelowna that I had clicked on in your profile and when it came up The bubble marker thingie was in way of most of word so I saw Ke&&&a and thought it must be Kenora since I saw you as Ontario. I SHOULD have looked more closely at area around the thing and seen it was BC, not Ontario. We`ve been to Kenora also many times nice drive around Lake Superior and then not so exciting from T`Bay to Kenora never cached there since Ive really only been at caching for a few months. We were only in B.C twice and what I remember most is the Bouchart(sp) Gardens over on the Island there... was quite a while ago.

Yes, there's not much cache variety around Kenora, Ontario (I don't know who lives there - not me). I Yup my bad on that one! Clicked on one of your caches, thinking you were Ontario and when it came up the bubble thing was in the way of the most of the town word which was Kelowna ( BC where you used to live??) not as I thought Kenora so that's why I checked there. As for Shediac caches it IS a great area for puzzles especially as you go towards Moncton from there.. thank god for " Ma and Pa " huh, since over half of them are that cachers work. and good for them! I've noticed they get over this way to cache each year as well as I've seen their signatures on caches I've found. Lucky you too for living in the lovely cache-rich Ottawa area.. we always enjoyed going through there on our travels ..love that drive up 17 to North Bay ! Weve often stayed around Arnprior or Renfrew when in the Ottawa area. Like I said in post one all this comes out of a group discussion at a recent event ( `I`ll take FTFs and beer for $ 200., Alex `) I was at a week or two back and really I threw it out here to see what people think.. well now I know LOL.. It`s been mixed with a majority seeming to like the status quo or not seeing any real problems in their areas re- saturation. Cool. I;ll stop worrying about it and get back on my real problem,, namely why does the guy I see in the mirror keep on getting older and older.. `sigh``.. any help with that one will really be appreciated ( maybe I could be regenerated eh ).

[ Prince Edward Island is sadly lacking in cache variety - hardly anything except traditionals. This was actually a factor in our decision to only spend a couple of hours there on our east coast trip this summer. There's lots of room left there for physical caches, even if the current geocaches never changed. PEI actually seems like an area where I'd expect a lot of cache turnover, because there are so many P&G type caches, which tend to get neglected and muggled often. And what is with the dearth of multis, puzzles, Earthcaches, and letterbox hybrids? PEI is a beautiful place with tons of history! Lead by example and put out some different hides - maybe that will inspire others to archive the bland traditionals in favour of interesting, challenging caches. I'd much rather spend a day on one interesting multi in a forest than find 100 film cans in parking lots. Um just did a quick count of PEI and found 75 + ( stopped counting ) puzzle caches, 35 + ( stopped counting again) multis, 8 earth caches and theres a handful of older virtuals etc.... out there. Now out of a total of around 1800 caches This doesn't strike me as a terribly low number. For fun I did a comparison count of 60- 70 ish miles around Kenora, Ontario ( reply posters area) and found exactly 14 puzzle caches and 11 multis...... hmmmmmm. I suppose somewheres there a data bank that can show world wide stats re this.. I wonder what it would show and how badly ( goodly ) dear old PEI would fare? I suspect though. not too badly at all. I might also point out that there is a significant number of traditional PEI caches on offshore islands accessible only by boat, swimming ( a few closer ones) or winter ice walking. And a majority of the easyish summer traditional ( and many are far from easy finds) are NOT easy to get to in winter as they are located on narrow red dirt roads ( we call em rdr's) which are never plowed in winter and are strictly snowshoe or ski-in for winter caching. In addition there's many and a growing number of caches on the Confederation Trail. which is strictly hike or bike. This is not in my opinion any more a power cache area then you can find anywhere else.. in fact rather less so than a lot of places.

I started this thread with the aim of getting some ideas regarding what I see as a problem that may or may not be bad now, depending upon where you live but which I think even the most vehement against my little proposal will agree, namely that A) Cache saturation is happening and more important at the rate of growth of this activity, will happen more and more as time goes on. Really active cachers ARE going to find it more and more difficult to geocache as time goes on and they've found all the caches in their area ( when you reach saturation there WON'T be many new ones.. only those that replace the smallish percent of active caches that get archived in say, a year. Think about it.. how many caches have been archived in your area relative to the number of new caches you would like to find next year? I sorta wished now I hadn't even mentioned old caches in terms of their condition, prescence at all or such since really, that's a totally different issue. Even if EVERY single ' bad ' cache out there right now was insta-archived, it's a drop in the bucket ; there would still VERY soon be many geocachers with the same problem of no new caches to find. Of course we should replace, archive etc , old caches but really that is not getting at the heart of my premise and of course IF you have the time AND the $$$ you can travel to new areas. to cache but geocaching will eventually, be it in 5 years. or 10 or whatever be cached out. And long before that happens finding new caches will be like pulling teeth. This whole idea arose out of a small group discussion at an event I attended.. frankly I'm new enough at this that I can still find caches within 20 to 30 miles of home..but some already find it a challenge to geocache with anything like the regularity they could before. Please forget about my local situation on this Island.( which isn't all that bad yet BUT at current rate of growth in cache hides because there ARE very strong private land issues here since all those green fields are crops that farmers don't want anyone near or pastures. and I do not blame them . ditto, please think global or at least think about where YOU live. Here's another proposal that one local cacher voiced as a thought.. that all caches have a fixed lifetime.. be it 8 years . 10 years.. 12 whatever and they are auto-archived when their time is up. Now we could certainly exclude certain historic or otherwise exceptionnal caches but this would cause an annual turnover and would open up room for new caches. this wasn't my idea but it certainly has up sides too ( and people being what they are.. the downside people will post like mad against it. LOL. ) I don't mind really..but I would like some to propose alternatives OTHER then " archive all the bad ones " and " there's LOTS of room left for new caches " Here's another proposal.. again not mine. Cache proximity minimum be halved or reduced significantly. Here's another proposal. All geocachers who want(or must) to cache close to home.. re-up with a new name.. then they can just start over. Here's another proposal. We do ABSOLUTELY nothing. We understand that this sport as we know it now has a termination point which will be different for all it being when you can't find any more caches nor hide any new caches in any place you can reasonably go to. We accept that at some point , other than on those annual vacations or other travel times, we put the GPS in a drawer and go bowling or golfing . I like golfing and thats' fine with me. Apparently I am one of the few geocachers without unlimited funds for travel and unlimited time to do it in.....RIGHT now my area is reasonably good.. there's still room to expand and there will be for a few ?? more years and maybe your locality is the same. But visualize if you can your area in the year 2012... 0r 2015.... or 20XX . What will it be like then? heck I don't have the answers.. but there's a LOT of smart people out there who like geocahing and want to keep doing it.. you come up with a way to do it for the next 20 years.. instead of only the next few years.

Great points! Here's how I visualize it though. Gen 1 and Gen 2 would have to be intrinsically separate thus separation guideline would not apply. It could be that once you log in here to find geocaches you choose Gen1 or Gen2 caches and that's all that comes up on your screen. Accidental finds would certainly happen BUT perhaps could be largely avoided by A) incorporating a .01 ( = about 50 feet or 75// 80/90???) ) or some such separation limit into the Gen2 cache placement program only from Gen1 caches. As to the land owners, obviously we ask ( at least I do ) now if caches can be placed on private land and that wouldn't change... If they don't want any more, they don't get any more on their land. I know this is a roughed-out idea and I am not so foolish as to think it doesn't need tuning but I do think the concept needs serious consideration.. Many cachers are one day a week (weekend ) and now must spend a lot of that day traveling to and from an area where there's caches they haven't already found... forget about evening caching..you cant get far enough away from your already found local caches to get new-to-you caches. Now I'm new enough at this sport that I still only need to go a few miles BUT if you have say 1000 or more caches there's a real good chance you're running out of close ones. And the situation is only going to get worse. I ask you.. where are you going to be caching in 5 years if nothing is done ?? I already know a few geocachers who simply don't cache much now because they can't.. there's no caches to find that they can access in the time they have to spend caching. Also travel to far-off caching locations is $$$ . Not all cachers are wealthy enough to do this even if they have the time. I think there's a lot of upside to this idea. Geocaching can only grow if we offer new members both the experience of finding caches AND the opportunity of making hides for others. Perhaps as this activity explodes the way it is, it may become necessary to create a regular cycle of generations.. say every 8. 10 or 12 years.

I live on an Island that two years back had under 500 caches and now has nearing 2000 caches. A time is coming when it will become next to impossible to place new caches here due to proximity rules. This is also a concern in a lot of other places as well. In addition many early caches are gone/ decrepit/ never or seldom ever visited etc. I wonder if it would be possible/ desirable to do the following ( or something like it ) : 1 )Set an end date for what would be called Generation One caches... this does NOT mean archiving them just placing them in one distinct pool of caches out there say Dec 31/ 2010. All caches placed to that date would be designated Generation One Caches. ( Gen1). No new Gen1 caches would exist placed after the end date but all would remain active. 2) Create a new Generation Two Cache (Gen2 ) pool which would exist as entirely separate entity from Gen1, such that Gen2 cache placement would only relate to other Gen2 caches. This would allow active cachers the opportunity to place more caches, find more caches and renew the sport in their local areas. I have no idea what technical aspects are involved here. I suspect that there would be some issues but I really can't see those as being insurmountable. The way it is now , unless either this or some sort of compulsory archiving of older caches to free up space is instituted, then geocaching has a built-in end date as an activity, that being when all reasonably available cache areas are clogged and active cachers have no wasty way to find new caches. As it is. cachers are already being forced to travel farthur and farthur afield to get new caches hidded and/ior found. I welcome discussion of this idea because frankly we will HAVE to do something down the road and doing it sooner rather than later is preferable so as to retain as many now-increasingly-frustrated but keen geocachers as possible.

[ HI and welcome to the addictive world of Geocaching! I started 3 or so months ago and am about to get to 600 found caches. There are a LOT of GPS options out there. If money is NOT a problem you probably want to go reasonably high end so as to get the paperless caching and best new chip sets.. so something like a Garmin Oregon 450 or 550.. I see you are Canadian and you can get the Topo map option for Canada for most of the mid to upper end units. Try GPS city, GPS Central and other Canada-based sites for comparison price and features. I am also in Canada and use a Garmin Venture etrex HC and I have a Magellan Explorist 500LE ( seldom use though since it won't talk to my Vista program ) . I use the Garmin and while it's not paperless, I find it a good GPS for me plus cost only $139. at GPS City. Hope this helps you and once again welcome to caching! Olewaif. aka Bob