U make my point exactly Pepper. Those that don't like VCM's don't need to participate. Those that participate in VCM's are playing the game their way, and that is fine with me also. The point I was trying to make is that there is some opposition to VCM's because it is a quick way to up cache scores. I have no problem with VCM's, because the point I was trying to make is that scores aren't important to me. Quality caches are! VCM's are a chance to meet people, and enjoy an adventure, i.e. Quality. If a person is going to a VCM just to up their cache count and ignore the rest, then they are missing out on a lot of the geocaching experience. They would probably do a lot better working on their bowling scores, with less effort.