kayakbird

All, There are Geocache Found Logs for M 46 RM 1 and KQ0337 the 1934 M 46 I believe that the exact same disk is shown in both logs and it appears to me that the original 1934 has been slightly modified to 1954. My idea is that the post earthquake visit saw no reason to do a full reset, but just fine tuned the L/L and elevation. I have recovered a couple where the entire concrete post setting was disturbed by highway widening and plunked back into a back-hoe dug hole. kayakbird

j0ckser, Maybe part way off your original 'Benchmarks - Canada' question, but there are quite a few 'off-set' marks north of the Medicine Line that have a PID and are in the Geocache database. Enter this one: 'TH0878'ABOUT 2-1/2 MILES NORTHWEST OF INTERNATIONAL BOUNDARY MONUMENT 554', on the Benchmark Hunting page in the box titled: Search for Local Benchmarks > By Point ID (PID): > Go > Nearest; and then scroll to other PIDs that are directly east or west of this one. I have seen this one. Scabbed a photo onto TH0829. Other information there which you may be interested in. And there is a string in this forum from awhile back dealing with the same subject. kayakbird

QP0840_STAMPING: ELEV 1264.968 FEET MEL

jiggs11, GSAK shows two 1965 placements by that same USGS crew chief (RBR) in the NGS database: AH9103 & HQ0789; and a few more in 1964 and 1966. Hopefully you will get information from USGS that will fill in the string. And again, out west we do see a lot of USGS marks that have a PID - 18% of the almost 13,000 in my several year old Nevada GSAK download. FND w/Okie'sKid kayakbird in Montana

Pulled up this old, old thread after seeing the below while on a bird watching trip in SE Arizona. A drive station along E Rucker Cny Rd at N31.76422 W109.35318. Flat top measures 3.75 in / 9.6 cm with a 0.5 cm side wall thickness, kayakbird 1905 US FOREST RESERVE CAP

Amygdaloid & all, Due to good mentors, river erosion, field cultivation, Survey Grade GPS, land owner permission at a NONPID and dumb luck probing at a shallow set with a short screwdriver, I have been fortunate to touch six of the MORC stones. Several others have been visible down the pipe. This one was not so lucky. kayakbird MORC NB

Amygdaloid, all, I do have several of the MIRC's but none with the raised lettering cap. Below note was added to my 2009 find of WYE CAP (SK0178 WYE BOLT UNDER) " Just found this note in Special Publication # 18. Kind of clears up in my mind that these are very similar to the Missouri River Commission tri-angulation stations set in the 1880's - a buried stone and a stand pipe to which a distinctive cap is attached. NOTE 48.-The bench marks in the line Fort Adam S to Vicksburg, 1905-6, were said to be “the regulation tile * pipe and bronze cap used by the Mississippi River. Commission for some years.’’ They were therefore of the same type as those described in the Report of the Chief of Engineers for 1900, Part 7, as follows: “The new precise bench marks established on lines Biloxi, Miss., to New Orleans, La., and Baton Rouge, La., to Fort Adams, Miss., are of the B. M. form used in 1898 above St. Paul, Minn., for ordinary bench marks, and consist of tile and pipe as follows: A vitrified tile 18 by 18 by 4 inches, in the center of which is set vertically with lead a three-eighths inch copper bolt, the upper end being a little above the upper surface of the tile. Surrounding the bolt on the surface of the tile is the inscription,‘Mississippi River Commission, 1898, U. S. B. M.’ This tile is buried in the ground about 3 feet beneath the surface. On top the tile is placed a 4-inch wrought-iron gas pipe 4 feet long, concentric with copper bolt; the lower end of the pipe is split into quarters and spread out to prevent its being pulled up. A cast brass cap fits over the top of the pipe and is riveted thereto. The cap has the following inscription in sunken letters: ‘Mississippi River Commission, $250 fine for disturbing this mark, 1898, **'P' U. S. B. M. U. S., latitude [ ],longitude [ ],elevation above sea [ ].’ The **P is put on with a prick punch. The elevation of the top of the cap is determined; the structure has thus two bench marks.” THIS COMMA MISSING IN SP #18. **The P appears to factory on the two that I have seen, Now I would like to see at least a picture of one of the leaded bolts." Datasheet treatment on these two part monuments is not consistent in either survey. *NOTE* 'BOLT" generally means a short stub of non-threaded copper rod leaded into a placed stone or chunk of concrete or native rock. kayakbird kayakbird

Z15 & all, I have recovered four of them, two each in Minnesota & Wisconsin and suspect that most set by the USLS in that era were the frustum. Which begs the question: If they were using a very permanent leaded in metal mark, why are there none (at least not found or not documented) during Kings 40th? I would think that they would have compared note while in Washington, DC during the winter. MEL

I also just asked Wiki what they were. Does anyone have one in hand? Thinking that the base of these cones would be a bit over one inch. MEL

Great one! Had you seen it by accident, or have some kind of 'word counter' filter? Further & higher points out west don't come close to needing that much verbiage. I do think that someone in the UP should take a run at finding the 'BRASS FRUSTUM'. They are a very unique survey mark, and was likely placed by the USLS long before 1955. RK0486'LEADED INTO A DRILL HOLE IN SOLID ROCK (ALTHO THE ORIGINAL RK0486'DESCRIPTION DESCRIBES THE MARK AS A BRASS RK0486'FRUSTUM LEADED INTO A DRILL HOLE IN SOLID ROCK). My first 'FRUSTUM'

One glitch that I noticed is that any mark that does not have the true Monumented date (for example many MORC's [bUNKER HILL QS0741], IBC's and PLN's) 1880's MORC not 1948 will not show up in a selected date bracket. Haven't tried DSWORLD lately, but in GSAK I used to sort various combinations of Waypoint Name, Placed, Placed By, Date and maybe Code to get these older sub-sets in proper order. Then you could enter these PID's en-mass and get them pasted into a Google Earth .kmz file. Clicking on the map pins would give a menu with Data Sheet & Geocache links. MEL

https://pubs.usgs.gov/pp/pp1677/pdf/pp1677.pdf Happened to notice this PDF which I used in a thread about GP0234 BM 12 several years ago and finally scrolled down through it to find references to the calls for GAGE RM 1. Mystery drill hole found in 18 November 2011. Might be worth one more kayak trip up from the Grand Canyon float trip put in point. kayakbird

Great historical thread going here! Threaded pipe cap were also used in the first decade of last century along the Medicine Line by the International Border Commission (IBC). IBC Threaded Pipe Cap This find/post from the first decade of this century is a bit unique. IBC Pipe Cap in Utah Good weather for computer hunts here near the center of Montana. kayakbird

Hey, Thanks for those links. Mr. Penry does do a fine job! I think that I have seen all his MORC rehab recoveries. Will have to go back to GSAK and research through the 1920's. kayakbird

Amygdaloid, Not real sure that the below link still works. Same photo is used there [page 10, figure 23], but no information on actual recoveries of same. Did research a few named CGS tri-points in Montana, Arizona & Wyoming back in those years & all I came across was a bogus GEOCACHING found nail that replaced a disk. Heads up TillaMurphs. kayakbird http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/web/about_ngs/history/Survey_Mark_Art.pdf Link seems to work - added page/figure number. MEL

Spooty, Cosmic Coincidence! Got into your profile and see that your last N 3 'bolt' is one of my recoveries and one of my favorite subsets. Took me a while back in the beginning to figure out what a 'bolt' was. In reference to your comment below, this designation is common in the early 'Precise Level Net' loops from the early 1900's. 3 would be the third string using A thru Z in the state of Wyoming. India and Oscar may not have been used. I believe that most, if not all, state made it up to triple digit strings. The link below will take you to one of several threads here that refers to 'Special Publication #18 which includes level strings in many states. Happy Hunting, kayakbird "Lastly, I'm used to many benchmarks having their "designation" (i.e., name and/or number) right on them; I wonder where the "N 3" comes from, and if it was ever in or on this benchmark; it sure can't be seen now,. But at any rate, there's no mistaking this benchmark, given the 1962 description." http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=227115&st=0&p=4003798&hl=special%20publication%20#18&fromsearch=1entry4003798 1828 Montana Time 6 Feb 2017 edit: Just downloaded Sp Pub #18 into this new laptop using the above link. Subject 'bolt' is found on page 172 [166 in index]. "N3.-At Rock Springs, Sweetwater County, Wyo., in the stone wall of the City Hnll, 6 inches from the pillar at the north side of west entrance, 4 feet above the surface of tl1e ground. (Note 56.*). 0 3.-At Rock Springs, Sweetwater County, Wyo., in the stone wall of the high school building, on the north side, 40 feet west of the northeast corner, and 6 feet west of the north entrance; 6 feet above the surface of the ground, and 16 inches above and to the left of the first window west of the north entrance. (Note 56.*)" I did no look for O 3 - maybe a chance for a NONPID. kayakbird

But there are marks with PIDs in Canada. kayakbird http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=316773&pid=5313519&st=0entry5313519 IBC mark in Canada

Link to previous thread 'Wartime "Shortage" Disk?: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=203716&st=0&p=5101393&hl=iron%20disk&fromsearch=1entry5101393 Also slight typo in above PID - should be: AH0842. Spent a bit of my younger days at NAS Beeville and later at NAS Kingsville. Drove the Chapman Ranch Road a few times. Wife & I were driving home from a great Mexican Restaurant meal in Corpus with two other couples and stopped to listen to the first footsteps on the moon. kayakbird

Enders_game, Pictures are always nice - even if the point does not have a PID. Just scab it onto a nearby point that is in the Geocache database and use the tools on the above menu line to link it to this forum. kayakbird

Enders game, The are quite a few experts on this forum that will gladly give you as much help as possible - including mathematical calculations to locate reference marks. That might be what you have with, I take it, a field stamped No. 2. To help us out please include every bit of information that you have - no secrecy on this side of the playing field. Describe any cast lettering on the disk (is it a metal disk?), did you take a GPSr reading, how about a photograph? There are many, many markers out there that are not in this Geocache game database, but most will be of at least 'Gee Whiz' interest to somebody here. Please do a little homework and read the pinned items at the top of this forum page. Welcome to the party, kayakbird

Really sneaky neat! How about a flared rod? Very few of which are out there in the wild. I think that the nail with your Bumble Town &SS was placed like that for finding under a snow drift. kayakbird

Very nice. Do you touch them up with Brasso every few days? kayakbird

Some do have PID's - GSAK Arizona sorts out 274 DMA's in 1966-67. kayakbird Notes only here - search nearest

RFI: PID? Link to Log? These being about my #3 favorite sub-set, I'd like to get a few more - even vicariously. kayakbird

LINK to BUMBLETOWN MIGS 1934 " SURFACE MARK IS A STANDARD U.S.C. AND G.S. AND S.S." MEL