The Coffee's

Some interesting replies, I remember the early days of testing new geocaching apps, the introduction of maps to GPS units and all the cache types that everyone enjoys today. I will say I think the old timers as they have been described deserve the recognition of being the ones that got the game/hobby and addiction off the ground, and geocachers who enjoy it today should understand if the "old timers" had walked away then it would not be around today, I think the extra label, colour or form of recognition is more important now than its ever been.

Over the years of Caching I have noticed the orginal starters of Geocaching had a profile title of "Charter Member" which I think was awesome, however there has been nothing since. I put out a virtual cache some time ago and mentioned this in my description as my Virtual is about the memory of cachers past including my other half Shelby. https://coord.info/GC9P4T0 What I want to ask or get discussed is if Groundspeak could look at recognising Geocachers from the early days when it was a milestone to get 5 caches on a weekend using paper maps and printed details. I think as a thank you for your contribution a title attached to your profile would be great and maybe like those who joined in 2000 that are listed as “Charter” members, maybe one day in the future those who joined around 2001-2005 could be honoured as “Foundation” members and those who joined between 2006-2008 could be listed as “Heritage” members and so on. I would be interested in discussing this and finding out if it is possible to be done by Groundspeak. Thanks for reading at least Ian (MrCoffee) The Coffee's

Thanks for the input, these replies are actually my dilemma. If i go by the guidelines the log in the log book would be grounds for a find. The owner claims I didnt actually visit the cache (up the tree)and is grounds do delete the cache, however if we followed the CO request then thousands of caches would need to be deleted. However if your name is in the log book then it is a find. I find this to be a round and round argument and this is where I think GC needs to place some specific guidelines to avoid this. I see this from both sides and this wasn't a armchair log as I was at the tree and like so many posts before the log book was signed by another cacher up the tree. This argument could also be based on a D5 puzzle when someone works it out and another caches goes along with the other to find it, does this mean because they haven't worked it out they are not allowed to log it. I also know of cachers who won't log such a situation until they solve it, although they have physically logged it.

There really isn't much to discuss about the deletion anyway. Assuming that your name is indeed in the physical log, the CO was out of line in deleting your log and it would be restored and locked if you contact Appeals. The Answer 2 you received stating that you have to log it yourself is flat-out wrong, because there's no such requirement in the guidelines. In what context? Ethically? There's no right answer for this; it varies from finder to finder. The 12-year-old, 61-page, 3000-post Found It = Didn't Find It discussion is a testament to the variety of cachers' ethics. Based on the website's rules/guidelines? According to the guidelines, if your signature is in the physical log, your online log is considered valid and can be restored if deleted. The cache owner's personal wishes are irrelevant. A cache owner cannot require that every logger climb the tree, solve the puzzle, etc. As long as your signature is in the log, there's nothing they can do. If they don't like this rule, then they can consider listing their cache on a different site. As for the described scenario (albeit without knowing exactly how difficult the cache is), I've actually been in a similar situation. There was a T5 tree-climbing cache (note: T5 was too high; it was probably a T4 in reality) beside the site of an event I was holding. One of the attendees brought an extension ladder and used it to gain access to the cache, and the people who hadn't already found it all gathered around. Someone climbed up the ladder and retrieved the container, then brought it back down to the ground where everyone signed in. I signed the log, but I did not climb the ladder since I was trying to keep the event on track. Personally, I feel that climbing the ladder in this scenario was effectively a formality that I was capable of doing, but didn't due to time constraints. Was it really necessary for me to make an easy climb up the ladder just to tick some virtual checkbox? I don't feel so, but some people may feel differently. Sorry, but i feel differently,, pretty much about everything you said. I know that Groundspeak can be contacted but i'm not so sure they would side with the so called "finder" in a case like this. Actually, and although the two GS responses were different, neither stated anything about reinstating the OP's log. In fact, the 2nd response stated something to the effect that GS sided with the cache owner in this case. I don't have a cache like this placed but if i did, it would irritate me to no end if someone cry babied to GS who then forced a reinstatement of a "found log" that i had rightfully deleted. Thanks for the input, these replies are actually my dilemma. If i go by the guidelines the log in the log book would be grounds for a find. The owner claims I didnt actually visit the cache (up the tree)and is grounds do delete the cache, however if we followed the CO request then thousands of caches would need to be deleted. However if your name is in the log book then it is a find. I find this to be a round and round argument and this is where I think GC needs to place some specific guidelines to avoid this. I see this from both sides and this wasn't a armchair log as I was at the tree and like so many posts before the log book was signed by another cacher up the tree.

Thanks, I have walked away from this cache after the CO deleted the log twice. However I will follow the posts to find out what the guidelines actually are

Recently I was at a T5 cache were someone else offered to climb and stamped the log book for me, I did log it to which the CO deleted it. It is not deleting I am concerned about but more about when does a log count as a find. Over time I have attended caches day and night in a group and someone has offered to scribe for the group to make it easier for everyone, and had someone climb or crawl to retrieve a log book for everyone to sign, according to answer 2 these would be only a find for the person who wrote in the log book as the others have not technically signed. I raised this issue with Groundspeak and subsequently received 2 opposite replies, which i have written below, both appear very vague on a definitive answer, and have not seen a reply on Facebook. Can someone shed some light on this issue and explain what are the rules and regulations, do I have to physically sign, can someone sign for me at the cache GZ, if my stamp or signature is in the log book is that all that is required?. Answer 1 Technically, the guidelines don't specify that you must mark the log book yourself.The guideline states: "Physical geocaches can be logged online as "Found" once the physical log has been signed. " It doesn't specify if the user has to log it themselves. Thus yes, if a group of cachers find a cache and a user signs the names for all, this is allowed.This is more on the honor system. Some cachers may be ethically ok with claiming the find if they see the cache and someone else logs their name while in a group caching. Others aren't. We aren't the logging police so we don't govern behavior to this extent. It takes some of the fun out of geocaching if the cache owner is deleting logs over this miniscule issue and may not be as much fun for cache owners either.Happy caching, , Groundspeak ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Answer 2 Unfortunately, in order to claim a find on a geocache, one needs to have logged the cache themselves. Of course if a Cache Owner decides it's fine for you to have claimed the find on the cache, we wouldn't interfere. But unfortunately we do side with the Cache Owner , Groundspeak

This would be one of the most feared posts to be added to what is seen as a "fun and adventurous" hobby. Our team and many others in Australia are saddened by a death in geocaching and our deepest sympathies go to the family and friends of the Stuart Anderson.<p> Regards Mr.Coffee and the Coffee Clan.

Hi I am interested in finding out how other countries go about organising geocaching events and insurance liability issues. I was organising a cache event and the relevant Park authorities have indicated we require a permit for an event plus 10 milion public liability insurance etc etc. If this is becomes the case i will look at moving or cancelling the event and i was wondering is this issue has arisen elsewhere, and if so how it has been dealt with.

Since Thursday 7/12/06 I have not been able to access GCA is it down?, gone? or am I having computer problems?, as all I am getting is a "this page cannot be displayed"....

If I was the owner of the geocoin I would be pretty pissed off for some idiot whos @#$$ is smaller than his brain shoots holes in a geocoin. Sorry but that is vandalism and these sort of people give caching the worst reputation that it doesnt need. I am surprised that some of you are not banned and removed from GC.com..Bragging about shooting a coin, very intelligent. Against guns no. Just against some people who should not own them. Me? 1982, .223, 100 metres, 10 rounds, all middle circle PAPER target, still have target, then thought why and sold all my weapons.

I noticed there is a Waymarking for all McDonalds stores world wide. Is it possible to have a Waymarking for McDonalds McCafe's only in Australia?, or is this stepping over the Current McDonalds of the World. Regards Mr.Coffee and the "my kids love McCafes only" Clan.

Even support from the US would help show that closure of our recreational parks in Australia will also inpact on overseas tourism and I believe this may help in taking the message to our federal politicians. Mr.Coffee Ian

More than happy to help a fellow geocacher. Mr.Coffee Ian Victoria Australia P.O Box 2342 Fountain Gate Narre Warren Victoria Australia 3805

I will and I mean I will pass on any letters to local MP's and state MP's. Please geocachers if you love your sport or getting out into the bush, you need to do something now, not later after everything is closed off. later is going to be too late. again thank you to all who read, and a big thank you to Groundspeak and geocache.com who have made weekend getaways of geocaching fun. Regards Mr.Coffee Ian.

Write to myself Mr.Coffee P.O Box 2342 Fountain Gate Narre Warren Victoria Australia 3805

Hi all, I am in greta support of CITO day and will certainly be doing my part. However in Victoria Australia we have another problem that could close off many areas of geocaching. I am talking about our Government declaring state forests as National Parks then shutting them up without consultation to any users before you could say "crikee what was that". our wonderful organisation known as DSE or department of sustainability and environment is working hard in offices at central Melbourne deciding that by lack of funds it is easier to close our outdoors rather than working in with user groups to maintain them. By anouncing meetings with only days notice they have been able to say that due to lack of interest a certain area is to be closed. Who this AFFECTS: all users, 4wd, bushwalkers, canoeists, motorbike riders, geocachers, local tourism, business owners, to name a few. Readers this is serious, we need to take action now and keep our parks open. in about 8 weeks the otways will be closed for good fenced and gated to keep all out and this will spread from park to park. where to start?, local MP's local Government, media, local business, forums. Please all in Vic help us all anf get active somehow. we have to act now. To Groundspeak I apologise for using this forum to present a problem, but it is serious and I do love geocaching. Mr.Coffee Ian Berwick VIC Aust

Hi all, I am in greta support of CITO day and will certainly be doing my part. However in Victoria Australia we have another problem that could close off many areas of geocaching. I am talking about our Government declaring state forests as National Parks then shutting them up without consultation to any users before you could say "crikee what was that". our wonderful organisation known as DSE or department of sustainability and environment is working hard in offices at central Melbourne deciding that by lack of funds it is easier to close our outdoors rather than working in with user groups to maintain them. By anouncing meetings with only days notice they have been able to say that due to lack of interest a certain area is to be closed. Who this AFFECTS: all users, 4wd, bushwalkers, canoeists, motorbike riders, geocachers, local tourism, business owners, to name a few. Readers this is serious, we need to take action now and keep our parks open. in about 8 weeks the otways will be closed for good fenced and gated to keep all out and this will spread from park to park. where to start?, local MP's local Government, media, local business, forums. Please all in Vic help us all anf get active somehow. we have to act now. To Groundspeak I apologise for using this forum to present a problem, but it is serious and I do love geocaching. Mr.Coffee Ian Berwick VIC Aust