VAVAPAM

Depends on its purpose, of which there are several.

An easement provides legal right to use somebody's land for a specific limited purpose, but title to the land continues to belong to the landowner. In our area, bridges [where traffic travels] are property of the Dept. of Transportation. (In Virginia, that's off-limits for cache hiding.)

Honing in on the point. And perhaps I'm wrong, but you seem to be underscoring it with your comments.

New topic started by somebody else's "neighbor" .... --------------------------------------------- Posted 4 hours ago How do I take geocaches that I have already dropped out of my inventory? I went back to the specific geocaches on-line and wrote a note that I dropped them, but they still show in my inventory. Thanks. --------------------------------------------- I rest my case.

From a recent log on one of my caches.

I was pretty proud of myself for finding a difficult-to-spot cache one day. Didn't get to savor it long: I could not find the bright yellow pencil I'd apparently dropped right there. ?

My sixth cache. There were *5* pens in the cache, and I'd brought my own. Not one of them worked, and trying to use dirt as ink was an epic fail. After that, I started carrying only golf pencils - lots of them - and a Sharpie.

But wait; I don't read instructions, so wouldn't have watched a dang video! (Old habits die hard.)

Now referring to the official app - in my mind - as The Tap App. ?

Oh, uh, so it does. Doh! This is a particularly bothersome point for me, too. Hints couched within the description, as well as safety notices likely won't be seen until the damage is done. One of my caches has a sentence in all caps about not attempting to access the cache in any other way.... I'm changing word-code lock on the cache, with the hint simply noting to see the last word in the all-caps sentence. If nothing else, they WILL read that sentence. Who knows, maybe they'll be curious enough to read the rest? Adding: I was going to make the hint, "Read the Description", but that might seem a little snarkey to some.

Oh! Yes, the cache size is listed on mine, too. Sorry I wasn't more clear. I meant an explanation of the size. betterer wurds

I went ahead and downloaded the official app for iPhone and Android (as I've heard there are some differences.) Trying to assess as if I were a newbie ... and also not one of those bothersome people that reads instructions first. Just starting out, they look and act the same. I REALLY like that when tapping on a cache type the first time, an info box comes up and describes the type of cache. It doesn't pop up again, but the descriptions ARE listed within the app, rather than having to - heaven forbid - go to the website's Help Pages. I also really like the reminder to sign the logbook; it does that with the Mystery type, too, after an explanation that it may involve solving a puzzle and to read the details - without adding "if you get stuck". (As an aside, I sure wish it would say that for Traditional Field Puzzles, too.) I was pleased to see that at least the Description at the top of the list of cache details (the first few words). The videos are short and sweet: Quite informative without being too long. Also, it may seem a small thing, but I think it was a good call to list the attributes in words, rather than presenting icons that would be unfamiliar to new cachers. I cannot fault either the Android or iPhone version of the official app for Mr. Neighbor's choosing not to avail himself of information presented pretty much in his face. There are prominent links to the Help Pages, and there is quite a bit of information right in the app; HOWEVER, container size [edit: *explanation*] is not there. I wonder if that's because it's listed under CO information in Help, so not prioritized for Finder info? How unwieldy would it be to make that same type of pop-up happen with the size, for example? "Micro. Anything from the size of an penciltip eraser to a pill bottle or film canister." Or would that just be annoying? I also wonder, thinking about Mr. Neighbor arriving at somebody's yard, if the GPSr of the phone itself might have come into play. (Frankly, this is why I rarely use an app to locate a cache. I trust my ancient Garmin etrex more than my phone.) Are there specific ways to describe what - I dunno - native GPS accuracy is needed? But again, the video makes it quite clear: put your phone away when you get within the range. So here's my "neighbor" thing: Something that wasn't touched on by the OP but is a bit of an issue here is logging trackables. This process seems a bit cumbersome, this after "cheating" and reading the help - it IS built in - and already knowing what had to happen. I don't understand why it isn't the same logging experience as on the website - where you scroll down and choose the action at the same time as logging the cache. For somebody just learning, this multistep process is just not intuitive at all. I now understand why a new cacher insisted that they did what they were supposed to (log a Write Note). OK, so now I get it. I now get several things that happen when an uninitiated cacher goes out without a more experienced cacher. (Worse, when several start the hobby together. ARRGH!) Still, I am grateful for this information and am planning some changes to some of my cache pages. First up, I'll move my FTF congrats off the first line of the Description. Does that rankle - my having to compensate for the misunderstood App? Why, yes it does. But if making changes right now means that my caches might stand a better chance of surviving, I'll do it. Perhaps offering the official app as a "plug and play", so to speak, is also a survival decision for HQ? Is it succeeding? As I thought of ways to possibly head off some of the difficulties encountered by Mr. Neighbor - sizes, specific attributes (just to start another controversy, heh heh), a locked frame-by-frame auto-tutorial at start-up, etc. - I realized just how huge (MB size, I mean) this app could become. So this seems to be a difficult balancing act. Marketing to a need for immediate gratification vs need for knowledge on the fly; trying to compensate for lack of experience and/or reasoning vs a big chunk of phone memory. I hasten to add that I'm not a programmer, so perhaps this size idea is not valid. At some point in the cache quality discussion I recommended getting educators involved. I do believe that remains a valid idea. If educators are already on board and critiquing the delivery process, then I apologize for bringing it up again.

Three years later, it ... still could stand a touch-up.

Thank you!

AHA! I was under the wrong impression [yet again] that sending an email would be more effective than geo-message for new players. Makes me wonder if ANY of my emails got through. I'll think more kindly of them now. Results vary with participants, I've noticed: Some respond to message, some to e-mail. I haven't discerned how to figure which to use. (Spam-worthy; har!)

This is a game; it's supposed to be fun - don't make me THINK, too! Working in 4-H, we learned quite quickly that the national (USA) scholastic epidemic of kids' lack of critical thinking skills had a huge impact on our work and program delivery. (That was more than 10 years ago ... guess where those kids are now.) Kunarion's follow-up questions to his neighbor were reasoned and demonstrated the critical thinking necessary to work through the problem. Sounds like The App is not hand-holding through the thought process. (As needed? As wanted? Probably a thought for another day.) I don't use The Official App. It was a few years ago that I tried the official app - hey, it was only a few months ago that I got a GPSr that I don't have to manually input the coords; that app thing was calling my name ! - along with other apps and chose a different one that worked better for me in the field - which is the only time I activate it, in the field, for a reality check or to check past logs (if I can get cell service). I wasn't aware that, from what I'm reading here, it's not so newbie-friendly. I wasn't aware that there wasn't a "?" available to take one directly to a related help page. It wasn't until today that I discovered in another thread that one could download the app and get moving without having to even enter an email. (Can that possibly be true? How does the cache or TB owner contact them?) As a CO, these are helpful things to know. I consider the visitors to my caches my neighbors, however brief their visit to my "neighborhood". I will offer assistance to a new cacher that hasn't properly logged a TB dropped in my cache, for example, and will walk them through it ... if they access the website or use the same app as I. But without The App, I'm pretty useless since most newbies do, indeed, use The App now. The best I can do is send links to the Help Pages. I definitely see value in having a hosted "How to App" type program. I certainly would attend in an attempt to learn how to help my caches' or TBs' finders. Who knows? Perhaps things have advanced to where it does more of what I want it to do in the field than before. The difficulty in our area is not a question of whose job it is to do it, as hal-en-tow brings up, it's a question of who has the knowledge to do it. When we had a general "Geocaching 101" community program, only one of the four experienced cachers actually used The App, and that person uses it rarely, as she's based 20 miles away, deep in the mountains - generally no cell service available. Which brings us right back around to what I think is a very salient point made by the OP, as well as the subsequent posts: As cachers already experienced with the website interface - which, by the way, hal-en-tow, I still enjoy the same cache investigation activities you describe - we have the distinct advantage of knowing what we're looking for, what we need to know. "Not there; 'nother screen. Scroll, scroll, etc..." So it works for us - or we try another. For the uninformed neighbors? Maybe not so much? Good food for thought, good feedback and helpful info, and I thank the OP for starting the thread. It has motivated me into getting a bigger memory card so's I can download The App and see what's what (because you KNOW those cool cache photos aren't going to be deleted to make room).

Hey, thanks for checking; appreciate the "all clear". ?

There is an old Virtual in our neck of the woods ... The Rock 3 - GCJ1V2 (Only slightly OT: The painted rock isn't in the cache, it IS the cache. )

One of my caches was created at a "Geocaching 101" community event. Rock painting activity entertained the kids while the older folks attended the speaker's presentation. Together, the group decided where to place, and how to stock the ammo can ... with input from seasoned cachers to keep them within the Guidelines. All those rocks went into the cache! I sort of cringed, but hey, a few were cute, and it was aimed as a kid-friendly cache (and apparently it's still a "thing" around here). When it got muggled, I did kinda chuckle to myself, picturing the absconder herniating himself lugging that box of rocks.

Yes, thanks for noting that. I just went back and noticed that a hastily posted Write Note is actually an OM.

HAHAHA! I think I may actually be guilty of having done this just yesterday! Leave it to Forums to bring in a reality check: -------------------------------------------------------------------- Owner Maintenance 06/21/2019 not ready for prime time players Cache is put back together and in place BUT there is a kink in the system somewhere. That would be very frustrating, so leaving disabled through the weekend. Alternate lock still in place; please do not attempt to log. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My thinking was that maintenance had been done (and quite a bit) ... just not quite ready yet. Not trying to erase any NMs. In fact, I was the one that discovered the need. Sooooo.... change to another Write Note? Edit the last one, adding the updated status? EDIT: Went ahead and added a dated update to the previous Note, so's not to clutter up the page with CO logs.

Just love an enthusiastic log! ? --------------------------------------- Premium Member Temporarily Disable Listing 07/04/2018 This one need an owner check Premium Member Didn't find it 06/30/2018 I was in the area hunting some newer caches, and stopped by to avenge my previous DNF. Didn't happen. I found the same as the previous few logs: nada. But I did see a great deal on fireworks at a pop-up dealer very close to GZ. [Photo] Premium Member Didn't find it 05/09/2018 Nope.. New hardware additions may have bearing on missing cache... needs CO's eyes to verify. Premium Member Didn't find it 03/29/2018 I searched all over the area bit wasn't able to come up with the container here. Premium Member Found it 03/21/2018 ******Eureka! ****Thanks for the geocache! Had a great time finding this geocache. This was find #1 of a total of 1 found today, 03/21/2018. After this geocache find, I have 8597. Thanks [edit] for placing and maintaining this geocache for me to find and add to the number of smilies that I have collected. I am doing my absolute best "collecting" geocaches and trying to keep from being run over. The plan is to get at least one cache a day for as long as I can. I am also in a quiet competition with [edit]. Many thanks to all the owners out there who gave me an entertaining time with all the hides to pick from. I found this cache was very entertaining and I enjoyed it so very much. Caching gets me out of the house and exploring this big blue ball we call Earth. I will have signed all logs as either [edit], [edit] or [edit]. Also replaced a few logs and bags. As a cache owner, I know the importance of maintenance so I helped out whenever, and wherever I could. Thanks again. Have a fantastic day Premium Member Didn't find it 02/25/2018 We tried this one again as we were in the area again, but came up empty handed ... again. Premium Member Didn't find it 02/25/2018 No luck today. Shiny new stuff at ground zero. Premium Member Didn't find it 10/23/2017 Got the correct coords (verified by geochecker) but could not find cache. Maybe next time... Premium Member Didn't find it 09/18/2017 Enjoyed this story and research. My husband comes from a long line of Navy men (including himself). It also will give me something new to discuss with my dad, a former military officer. I also like the fact that we can check our coordinates before heading out with the Geochecker - thank you for that. (I did get it right the first time, but liked the security of knowing it was correct before heading out to unfamiliar territory.) Unfortunately, I was not able to find the cache. Seems the trappings around the cache have been updated by Powers That Be. The COs were informed and quick to respond, so I look forward to getting a chance to lay hands on the cache and moving this one over to the Found side. At any rate, thanks for the interesting new topic for our next family gathering. Premium Member Write note 01/15/2017 Your cache site looks like it has been maintained. The container might not be here anymore. You might want to check. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Is it just me, or do you find it odd they didn't even leave a throw-down, given all that helpful maintenance?

I will probably add this type of statement to it, whether or not I use the attribute. Thank you. I really appreciate the various viewpoints and input from all you ... including ghostly cures - bonus! Thanks to all.

Going to leave off the Tourist Friendly attribute on this one. But ya'll come anyway - and bring the young'uns!

Ok, Ok, thanks! Sometimes it's hard to think from a visitor's perspective, and I'd rather not disappoint if most think, "Well, yeah, that was fun, but I really wanted a view or monument." Thank you for that perspective.