[Why is deletion of adoption logs possible?]

10 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

 

Well, the Cache Health Score  ( CHS )    might be one.  The "appearance" of issues for future finders maybe another.    

 

Would deleting a log even change anything with CHS? I guess that's a question for another forum. 

 

The appearance of issues is definitely why we had a problem in Korea in the first place. He thought by deleting the logs, no one would notice. That's like a cacher who doesn't dnf a cache for fear the cache will get archived or deter future finders. 

[Why is deletion of adoption logs possible?]

7 hours ago, Wet Pancake Touring Club said:

I think that the log for a cache adoption should not be a 'write note' log. Personally, I think that it should have its own log type. Even 'owner maintenance' (because the cache listing was updated) would be a better log type to use, IMO. 

I could get on board with this. An adopted cache just almost seems like a new listing to me, so a formal transfer log seems necessary. Maybe that's why it seems strange to me an adoption log can be deleted. It's almost like it's being republished. 

 

7 hours ago, arisoft said:

This could be better option for the OP as they could subscribe all adoption logs as instant notifications and follow all fishy adoptions to be reported to HQ.

Ugh... In this case I would've received thousands of emails in a single night just to look at the cache listings to find the logs had all been deleted. It would definitely do what you say, but at the sacrifice of my email inbox. Haha 

 

I actually only noticed the strange behavior from my pocket queries of unfound caches. They suddenly had new owners with no adopt logs. 

[Why is deletion of adoption logs possible?]

4 hours ago, Isonzo Karst said:

Enable and Temp Disable logs can be deleted, as can Update Coordinates.  Any log a player posts can be deleted by that player. Any log on a cache owner's cache page can be deleted by that cache owner, except, for the most part, logs by reviewers and HQ staff. Some logs cannot be edited - announcement, update coords for sure, but they can be deleted

I stand corrected. You're right. I've never seen any cacher delete these logs and thought I remembered seeing warnings when editing the text before. 

 

Not sure why these logs would need to be deleted either. Anyone know why someone would want to delete a disable or maintenance log? 

[Why is deletion of adoption logs possible?]

6 hours ago, arisoft said:

Reviewers and HQ can see these logs. Locking them do not help at all from this perspective.

 

These accounts must be locked if they are abused. I do not see any real problem if someone wants to move their archived caches to a graveyard account. 

 

From your point of view, what your primary problem and how locking adoption notes could help to solve this primary problem? I am asking this because I know that HQ will implement all tools they need to solve their own problems.

You're right, reviewers and HQ can absolutely see deleted logs, but they can't be everywhere and don't tend to go looking for violations. It was us regular geocachers that caught on to the strange behavior in Korea, not the reviewers or HQ. Reviewers and HQ tend to rely on the local communities for input. (A reviewer told me this). And when those logs are delete-able it's difficult to spot potential problems. 

 

I don't see a problem with archive graveyards either. Not my style, but to each their own. 

 

Locking adoption logs automatically would be an easy way to expose potential abuse while it's happening. If a cacher bounces a cache between multiple accounts it would throw up red flags in the community that something strange is going on. 

 

[Why is deletion of adoption logs possible?]

12 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

 

This is starting to  sound (to me) that this may be more like criminal behavior, and not simply "fixing" a game (that has no prizes, and everyone knows he's a cheat...).

I can't get  how one would be able to use another's account.  You need passwords for that.

If this is possible, than I agree, locking adoption logs might be a good idea.

 

9 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

How??

He was using their passwords, or... That's what we assume he was doing. The response we got from HQ when he archived close to 500 of one of those cacher's original caches was that because they gave up their password, they lost control of their account. I'm not sure why he thought it was ok to use a deceased person's account though... Regardless, he didn't cover his tracks well enough and the accounts were locked. There are about 5 other puppet accounts he has though. 

 

5 hours ago, The A-Team said:

As for the adoption logs, they're just "Write note" logs. There isn't anything inherently special about them, other than the fact that they're automatically generated when a cache gets adopted. As such, I don't think locking them can be done.

I was afraid that the log was just note type and maybe nothing could be done. Couldn't a script be written to automatically lock a adoption log upon adoption? Right now it just seems like this cacher has caused a lot of unnecessary work for our reviewers and HQ. 

[Why is deletion of adoption logs possible?]

3 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

Help me out. What was he cheating at? Odd behavior, I agree.

 

It almost sounds like you're saying he cheated by claiming FTF on his own caches, but Groundspeak wouldn't get involved in that issue.

 

 

He was impersonating another already existing geocacher, and it was his second time doing so. Groundspeak did get involved, both times and locked those accounts. That's not really what I'm asking though. 

 

Essentially, why was he able to delete the adoption logs in the first place? Wouldn't it be easier for Groundspeak and the hard working reviewers to lock all adoption logs so they can't be deleted? It just seems like the cheating would've been more difficult to hide. 

[Why is deletion of adoption logs possible?]

1 hour ago, cerberus1 said:

That sure is odd behavior... have you contacted the site about this instance ?         Any Reviewer or Lackey can read deleted logs.

The local reviewers and Groundspeak are aware of the issue and have restored and locked many of the logs, but they are volunteers and there are thousands of instances of this geocacher deleting logs.  

 

My broader question is why is it even possible to delete these logs. They seem just as, if not more than, important as other types of logs that cannot be deleted. It just seems like a great way to cut down on this type of cheating. 

[Why is deletion of adoption logs possible?]

Hello, 

There is a geocacher here in Korea that has stirred up a lot of controversy recently by placing caches using their own account, then adopting it to another account, deleting the adoption log, and renaming the owner of the cache to the new account. Then he logs ftf. When he was caught, Groundspeak had him readopt all of those caches and then locked the other account. But then, he has now adopted those caches to a third account and archived them. In every instance he has deleted the adoption logs to cover his tracks and make it look like he didn't do anything. It's the second time he's done this in ten years sometimes adopting a cache 6 or 7 times before finally archiving it. 

 

So I guess my real question is... Why can adoption logs be deleted in the first place? It seems like an important log akin to disabling or enabling a cache, logs which cannot be deleted. It just seems to me that allowing the deletion of adoption logs enables this type of cheating to be hidden from the community. 

[Caching in China - any problems?]

You shouldn't have any trouble in Hong Kong or Macao. Those places are a bit different from mainland China. I assume as long as you stick to the tourist routes in Mainland China, you shouldn't have a problem with GPS either, but I'm not really sure. 

 

I hope someone else can give a better answer for mainland China

[New KOREA roll call]

Hi Viajero Perdido!

 

I've seen your name both in Busan and up Gwanak, I also just missed you at Harrycho's event when you were here last. Hopefully we can head out hiking next time you are here. Gwanak is my favorite mountain worth the hike even without the geocaches. Next time you're here let me know and we'll get some awesome Korean BBQ. 

[New KOREA roll call]

Are you a Korean geocacher or want to geocache in Korea with other geocachers. Let's organize and work together to make Korea a great place to Geocache! Who else is here?

 

여기에 다른한국 지오캐셔가 있나요? 지오캐싱 행사 가본 적 있어요? 나중에 만나서 같이 지오캐싱하면 좋겠어요. 

[OKPO, South Korea]

Hi

I am in Okpo; South Korea (working in DSME)on and off for the next couple of years, I have managed to get one cache in the area after a long walk up one of the local hills and plan to set some in the city to allow others some easy finds with a place to drop trackables. I am just trying to find out if there are any other cachers in the area to see if it would be viable to hold an event to swap trackables.

 

I don't think there is much of a geocaching community in Okpo, but there are a few cachers in Busan, Daegu, and Daejun. Most of us are either in Seoul or around Pyeungtaek. Look for events every Saturday in Seoul if you decide to travel up north.