Cowboy Camper

I think I just learned something here than. Let me see if I have this correct. If it's Archived, it truly is 100% Unavailable to anyone who hasn't found it in the past? And the only reason I can still see it is cause I found it before it became archived? I ask this because I recently restored a cache thinking that folks could still see both listings. But considering this topic, (and if I get confirmation on that theory) I guess that would be redundant, now wouldn't it?

Disregard my last post. I'd Delete it out or Edit on my own if I knew how, but... Original ideas didn't pan out and New ideas have come into mind for me.

On the physical log, I'll include Date and Time of find and sign Geocache name. I may or may not make more notes on the experience of the cache. On the Cache Page log though, I'll get into many more details if I see fit. I'll tell a short novel sometimes. I do that, cause I figure the Owner of the cache will readily read the Email involved with my log entry a lot sooner than he may read the physical log book in the cache. As a cache owner, I know that I'll read the page entries every time. (I own it, so I get all the emails.) So I hope folks will post a good note when they log a Find (or even a DNF) at my cache page. In the field while hunting, I print out the cache page and take it with me. While at the cache (found or not) I jot down my notes on that sheet that I'll want to post back at home on the cache page for the CO to read. I jot down the Time too on my sheet and will then have that note in front of me for when I post my visit on the cache page. When I post my log on the cache page, I have all Info ready for him on my personal notes that I wrote on the sheet that I took to the hunt. That's what I do anyhow.

To get into the game, I got a cheaper Magellan eXplorist 210 for about 150 bucks. It's not the Best, but it has worked for me so far. I did the same when I wanted to buy a Road Version of a GPS. I went with what I could afford, and found to be the most User Friendly while playing with the display models in the store. Happens to be that I bought another Magellan unit, the Road Mate 1200. I hear that the Garmins are better on both versions but I never had the opportunity to try one Live. That said, I'm pretty happy with the results of both of the Magellan units that I bought. I'd say go with the cheaper model to start off with. That's what I did. JMHO, of course...

I have to admit that I have put off on ordering the cam lock fittings on line. I want to exhaust any and All Local sources before I place an on line order. Nobody around here has the cam locks up to 4" so it should appear that I have Struck Out. But... I have one more idea of where I may come up with another solution to my problem. With a name like Cowboy Camper, think RV plumbing fittings. I'll investigate my options with that in mind before I finally give in to the on line option. Another idea popped into my head here tonight as well. Seeing Bundy's array of fittings shown above has me thinking that I now know how to make some nice and small cache containers out of PVC fittings as well. Consider a 3/4" or 1" piece of PVC pipe about 6" long with a glued Cap on one end and a threaded cap on the opening end. Hmm .... I have some running to do after work tomorrow or the next day to get some supplies together. As soon as I can, I'll update some more Pics into this here topic for y'all to see what I have in mind.

Thanks, Jim. Now that I clarified my question, I understand your clarification of your answer. That said, I don't see a need to do any hides that are PMOC anymore. If one of mine gets muggled once too often, I'll just archive it and, as you said... move on from there. This here makes perfect sense to me! Thanks for that input. I've thought before about maybe placing a cache in the property next to were I work, and I think THAT might be a good example of why I would place a PMOC. I don't understand why a cacher would want to be a 'cache maggot' and do nothing more than muggle them as Jim said in his example, but I guess there are all kinds of people out there... the worst of which would probably not get the Premium Membership like you said. Thank You both for understanding my question and supplying a couple of good thinking points for me. I appreciate it!

I should Clarify, Jim. I've been a member for over a year and just in the last 2 or 3 days I went to Premium. I didn't notice any more caches in my area that were PMOC. Admittedly, I'm sure that I've failed to correct my Search Criteria to include Premium Only caches, but my question remains the same. Why would/should a Cache only be available to Premium Members? I just don't understand the premise or concept of this yet. Maybe it's to get more folks like me (Premium now) to incise others to support the GC Site and Forums? If that's the case, I understand. I may well Hide a Cache that is a PMOC to see if we can get more Support for the site and forums. It'll be interesting to see if I have any Found Logs into that one. As for me, I signed up to Premium because I wanted to (on my own) help to support the site and forum that others have put together here that got me started into this game. This Geocaching has been a great time out in the wilderness for me and my daughter. We can Geocache Hunt much more often than we can go Camping (given my work load) and I'm very thankful that this game is something that I've been able to wander into. Both of us have gotten a Lot more Outdoor Time life due to this game. For this, I am Grateful.

As a relative Newbie to the game, a story like this makes me need to reconsider the Direct Approach to a cache that the GPSr will show me to go. (and that I usually follow!) My heart and prayers go to the family. And since I cache with my daughter, I think I/we need to come up with some Safety Rules and methods. I stumbled on this topic by sheer accident, but I'm thankful that I found it. This really makes me feel a need to reconsider my current cache hunting methods.

Are the Reviewers typically local folks? I've dealt with 2 of them when getting my cache listed and they seemed nice enough through our email conversations. They never said too much, but their Actions by helping me get the cache going again spoke louder than words would have. I was also wondering if the Reviewers ever actually visit the caches being posted. Both of my reviewers have a Found count of 0, and one of them indicates in his profile that the Reviewer Profile is indeed not used for hunting caches. Anyhow, I have found the staff pleasant to work with (if I can really call it that....) and I'd like to Compliment them for their helpfulness. A helpful tip, I hope. As a cache Owner, you can post "Reviewer Notes" to your listing that you can see. Since the cache is not Published yet, only You and the Appropriate Reviewer will see the notes. These Notes also send emails to the person, so that is a good way to make contact. The Reviewer will remove any and all messages between you two when they actually Publish the listing for all to see at the site. When your cache listing is Published, the publisher's note will be the only one that you or anyone else will ever see in the log. That it, until another cacher makes a Found It log. Happy Caching, and Happy Hiding too! Welcome to the game!

Forgive my now knowing why... but why would a cache be available to Premium Members only? I don't think I've ever noticed such a cache in my immediate area, so that might explain why I don't understand the concept.

Excellent manners for geocaching. And excellent English as well. I wish my truck was as rusty as your English, that is to say apparently not rusty at all! Happy Caching and Welcome to the game!

I'm still awaiting the Parts to come in. Locally, I found these up to the 3" size, but I need 4". Have to order them on line. I think the cam lock fittings will do the trick... but I like the desiccant pack idea too. Where I might find those?

Oh! A couple more things to mention: If you find a cache and it's in really bad condition, you can choose the Needs Maintenance option for your log entry. That will tell the owner right away that he needs to go fix the cache. If you revisit a cache for any reason, post a Write Note log entry. It's really not honest to post another Found It log twice. There are reasons to revisit a cache. Show your kids the container, swap a trade item... things like that. Feel free to make Write Note logs. As an owner myself, I'll appreciate reading multiple logs. I hope this helps....

You did Log your visit, right? You do that from the cache listing that is on line here. If you logged your first trip as a DNF (Did Not Find) then you need to make a new Found It log entry. I believe you can edit a DNF log into a Found log, but it really is best that you do not do so. Not only is Honesty the best policy (for you and the game itself) it also helps the cache owner to read the logs as they actually are. Too many DNF logs in a row can tip off the owner that he needs to go out and check on the cache to make sure it's OK. A couple DNF logs every now and then (along side some Found It logs) can tell the owner that he did a good job of hiding his cache. Make sense?

I'm not sure if my eXplorist 210 can even accept PQ's. I'll need to investigate that and maybe sign on as a Premium Member. (thinking about doing that anyhow) However, what is GSAK? And where would I look for that? Yes, I'm still pretty much a newbie. I appreciate any help though. Otherwise, I've just been doing the on line searches manually with the maps in my area, clicking each cache listing, sending it to the GPSr and printing out the front info page of the listing. So far, so good. Thanks.

Well said, MrsB. As an owner I would appreciate Hunter's Pics of the area or hunting group, but NOT the actual hiding spot. I don't mind container pics either if it's really different like mine is. What I would ask though is that the background of the pic not help fellow hunters to locate the actual hiding spot. But you mentioned posting it in as a Log. Do you mean as if I were a Finder of that cache, or do you also mean Me being the owner of that cache and listing the pic on the cache listing? I guess what I'm asking is this. Do you think I should take down the pic of the actual container in my listing? I want to share the unique container to folks, but I also don't want to Spoil the Cache hunt! Anyone... let me know your thoughts on this one. Thanks!

"The Complete Idiot's Guide to Geocaching" is a pretty good book actually. I found one at my local Barnes and Noble. For the times I can't get out to actually geocache, I can read up on the tips given in the book.

I use Webshots myself. Easy enough for me to use~ should be easy enough for the rest of y'all too. That's a cache that I took ownership of after the original Owner turned up MIA. (Missing In Action) You can also post/upload Pics to each cache page if you want. Just use the Upload Images link at the upper right of the cache page to add Pics. You can add Pics all you like, but in the Captions available, be sure to let folks know if a Spoiler might be shown. The Text/Caption for the pics should show up before folks actually click on the Image itself.

Yes, write in two Log Entries. Same holds true if you revisit a cache and want to make a note of some sort. I posted two Found It logs when I took my Daughter back to a cache so she could see it herself. Then my Found Count went up by one when I really didn't actually Find another cache. I had asked about that here at the forums and was told that I could change that second Found log into a Write Note log entry. So I edited my log entry to make it Write Note log instead of a Found It entry. That also corrected my Found Count in the status bar. There is One cache out there that I have posted 2 Found It logs and left it alone as 2 Found Logs. (yes this upped my Found It count too). The Only reason I let that stand as 2 Finds for me is because I was checking in on the cache before it was about to be archived. I really did Find it again and reported back to the Reviewers that the cache was indeed still present. That particular cache has since been Archived and I have restored it as my own. The original Owner was nowhere to be found so I took it over and am maintaining that one from now on. Little did I know, that actually posted as a Hidden Cache in my status bar. I really didn't think it would, since I didn't actually Hide that one. FWIW, I never posted a Found It log for that cache under my name. Why would I? I own that one now. OK, I digressed. But Honesty is the best policy in your log entries. And in your case, you just need to post 2 different logs for that cache. First your Found It log, then your Note or Needs Maintenance log. As a new Owner of a cache, I can tell you that the Owners get each and every log sent to them in an email. That said, I have no idea why my cache's Original Owner never replied. All I know is that I gave my best honest attempts to contact him before I took over the cache.

It might. If I went to look for an urban cache about noon and wasn't able to retrieve it because there were too many muggles about, then went back at 7:00pm and was easily able to find it, that might tell others that might want to search for the cache that searching for it when there may be lots of people out on a lunch break might not be a good idea. Again. It's all in the story that you post about in your "Found It" log entry. If these circumstances fit into a Single "Found It" log, then do that. Be honest and just tell the story as it actually is. Within that story, you can easily advise other cachers to consider the best times to go after the cache. I revert back to my point about each DNF log. The Owners of each cache get emails for each and every log entry. As an Owner myself, I would prefer a single Email/Log entry telling a full story of the eventual Find, rather then a few logs about how the hunter has missed the find at first only to end up Finding it fairly soon. Just post the Truth in your log, I guess. Tell the Whole Story when you find it. But maybe don't waste the CO's time with useless DNF logs. IMHO, just say the Truth in your log posts. That's all that I'll ever ask for.

So what if the same situation happened except you left to eat dinner and came back the next morning to continue looking? Is there a time limit between breaks that mandates that you log a DNF? If so, what is it? For me it goes by date. If I visit 3 times in one day and end up with a find, I would log the find. However, if I visit on Monday and did not find it, then returned the next day and found it. I'd log a DNF on Monday and a Found on Tuesday I usually cache hunt on weekends. So... if we hunt on Saturday and miss the "found" and find it on the next day (Sunday) I would include those details in my Found log that I posted on Sunday. Again, this goes back into the details of the story that you tell on the Found Log. There are also times when I don't get onto the computer to post any logs at all. When that happens, I have to tell my story from a day or more ago. In that case, I post a Single Log and explain all of the details (giving the proper dates within the story) and so far these have been all Found Logs. It's all in the story that you tell. And being Honest and all inclusive of the details.

On this side of the pond, building regulations do not apply to sections of plastic pipe hidden under sticks or leaves and stuff like that. However if you want to keep water from entering them, they need to be properly sealed. Here in the US we have no rubber seals on our PVC Plumbing fittings. For Plumbing installations we'll add Teflon Tape or Pipe Dope to properly seal the threaded fittings against any leakage. However... for my Geocache Container purpose, both of these means of a good seal would be too messy for a cacher to open the container. Also, both methods of sealing against water ingress/plumbing leakage requires tools to open the cap again. For a cache container, I want nobody to have to bring along tools to open the container. The simple to use Cam Lock fittings I have in mind should serve Perfectly. There IS a rubber gasket to keep the water out, and the fitting requires No tools to remove or replace properly.

I'd say to post the Find, and tell that story if you wish. JMHO though. I don't see a need to post 2 DNF's and then a Found Log if you find the cache on the 3rd trip of the same day. Do the specific circumstances really matter? For example: DD and I went out to several caches that we ourselves missed the Find. We ended up meeting a couple of fellow cachers and we collectively found all of the caches we were after. At the end of the day, I posted a Found log and told the proper story of how we found them. I gave Credit to the fact that we had some help. Some I found myself and the others the rest of the team actually made the find. Either way, I told the truth in my Log. Sometimes the Team Effort is what it's all about. I just told the Truth in my Log Entry, and so did the other Team Members. I have seen similar log entries from Team Efforts at other caches. However you look at it, Honesty is the best policy. As a cache owner, I would find the single Found Log interesting to read if it involved a scenario similar to my own hunts. The single Found log (telling the full story) would be better than 2 DNF's and then the Found log in a single day. Again, JMHO.

In general, I'm getting an overwhelming Majority Vote to replace the container. But I will Not do so. Here's why: I have a new idea for the main opening folks. Cam Lock fittings!! This setup includes a gasket that is put under pressure when the side cams are locked down. Thus ending any threaded connection concerns. And... This is an easy cap to remove and replace properly. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Regarding any Pipe Bomb concerns: It's a "Y" fitting with 3 threaded caps. 2 are now Glued to keep things sealed, and the 3rd will be replaced with this Cam Lock set up after I order it on-line. (drat! No local source.) Also, it's out in the woods and mostly camouflaged with tree bark glued to the container. In NO way does it look like a bomb or even a good place to put a bomb. Where the bark has fallen off, I've repainted the container with camo paint to cover up the white part of the PVC. Here's a Pic of the container before I painted over the white part. I really think this will be the best answer to my own question. What do you guys think? I'll update the Pics when the parts come in and the container has been re painted to look camouflaged again.

Really after just one DNF? I use the "3 Strikes your out" method I will typically not go out and check on it till I get 3 consecutive DNFs on it. When I was new to caching I would go out everytime someone posted a DNF only to find the cache was right where it was suppose to be. So know it's 3 strikes and I'm OUT (Out there checking on it). ScubaSonic I amend my thoughts on the soft DNF. DNF is just that, after seeing other replies here this evening. I'll still post a DNF if I didn't find it. What that tells the CO, I guess that's up to the CO to determine. If I'm a Stump and cannot locate an 'easy' cache, then so be it. If it's a really great hide that tripped me up, then so be that as well. Either way, I'll likely return to actually Find it when I can. I've one good example of a DNF that I logged. My GPSr was all off course and DD and I were in a swamp looking for one and ended up empty. I posted a DNF. I went out to find it again one day after work and met with Success. I took DD to it to show her where it was and happily posted the Found log. The CO never emailed me any hints. I never even thought to ask for one either, so I'm glad he did not. I think now that I would have been a bit offended if he just thought he had to (without my having asked) told me where it was. To me, that IS a Spoiler. Sure would have spoiled my second trip to that cache. As a new Owner, I know that I will not just email a DNF poster with any spoilers. Why ruin their fun? Why should I presume that the DNF poster is too stupid to find the cache? I won't. Now, what I WILL do is address comments about the co ords. IE: I posted an Owner Maintenance log giving a 'range' of where the cache is. I did this knowing that different GPSr's can prove to be more or less accurate given different weather conditions and so on. My own GPSr gave me this 'range' at a cache that I have visited very often (now that I own it). These same variables are also why we failed on that DNF I was just talkin' about. I did not change the co ords for the cache listing for the very same reason. I found the cache with the given co ords so I saw no reason to post any different numbers. The same can be said about the hunter who told me the co ords were off by 30 feet. He even blamed his GPSr, much like I will do if I suffer a DNF. But this hunter did find my cache with the listed co ords. Thus, no change to the listing. Regarding my Quoted Quote: I'll look at the DNF log before I decide to run out and check on the cache. I'll pay attention to the Context of any DNF logs to determine if there is a reason to run out right away to check on it. With that in mind, I like your 3 Strikes theory. That makes sense to me as a new CO. I'm fairly new to Geocaching and I'm Definitely a newbie as an owner. So I guess it's all gonna boil down to a Judgment call on my cache. But the reason I even Own this cache is due to somebody posting a Needs Archived log for the previous CO. IMHO, the Needs Archived log was premature. But... the original CO hasn't responded to any log entries for over a year so I took over from there. I just don't want to ever let my new cache ever get to that status again. So as an Owner, I would appreciate any and all DNF log entries. Make sense folks?