fivethings

HUA! The (NGS-centric) benchmark hunters oath should start "First, do no report that Deb prefers you not do, ..." Needless to say, "seventhings" is terribly depressed by this news (but he will comply).

Mother Wolf - Stevensville, Maryland? Excellent location. You are within easy striking distance of many interseting benchmarks like this: JU3903 Welcome aboard; good hunting. 5

Thanks, all, for the replies; my understanding is confirmed, and the (physical) world makes more sense to me now. Thanks, especially, to Holograph - your "FYI" about the difference between the ellipsoidal distance between two points along the 41st Parallel of latitude and the distance between those two same points as measured along the Parallel was particularly on point. The question arose in my mind when I compared the INVERSE distance along the southern boundary line of Pennsylvania (at about N39-43.330) between Mile 0 and Mile 10 to the cumulative distance between Mile 0 and Mile 1, plus Mile 1 and Mile 2, etc. (It's a really small distance.) And Holti22's observation about the reciprocal geodetic azimuths between two points never being exactly = 180 (except for true meridians and the Equator) confirms my understanding of that property of a straight line. So, if I started at Point A (such Point NOT lying on the Equator, but somewhere in the Northern Hemisphere), determined a bearing of true West and ran a perfectly straight line to the horizon, the point at which my line intersected a true meridian at the horizon would lie at a more southerly latitude than Point A. Furthermore, if I used INVERSE to calculate the starting bearing between my Point A and a point at the exact same latitude on the horizon, that bearing would be greater than 270.00000. Thanks, again. 5

I have a question about the INVERSE calculator of ellipsoidal distance (at INVERSE ) . Is my understanding correct - that "ellipsoidal distance" is, essentially, the same as or very similar to the distance between two points as measured along a segment of the arc of a great circle? And, if that's correct, then "ellipsoidal distance" and "great circle distance" would be the same if the two points were at the same longitude, but the calculated "ellipsoidal distance" would be a lot shorter for two points at the same latitude as compared to the distance measured along that parallel of latitude? And, if that's correct, is there a calculator for measuring the distance between two points of equal latitude along that parallel of latitude? or, alternatively, is there a simple correction for converting between ellipsoidal distance and (whatever the technical term is for) distance along a parallel of latitude? Thanks, 5 p.s. Are the distances for points along a calibration baseline measured as "ellipsoidal distances", or are they determined as if the world were flat?

holograph - As usual, outstanding job. Many thanks for a great contribution to the community. 547

Why bother? It's really just a matter of personal preference. Some people get their jollies looking for tupperware in the local county park. Others would rather slog through a swamp for a mile or so to find a dressed stone set by Charles Mason and Jeremiah Dixon in December, 1765. Pretty much the same thing, I guess. 5

I would log this as "DIDN'T FIND IT". Had the station's position been defined by adjusted horizontal coordinates, I probably would log it as "FOUND (really really) POOR". Were I to report the recovery to NGS, I would call it "NOT FOUND", but I would describe what I saw in the comments.

Hoosier Daddy - Thought your log for KA0327 was perfectly OK. Most experienced benchmark hunters can cite dozens of similar situations - things that are not the right thing logged as "Found", etc. And many (if not most) experienced benchmark hunters will, in their logs, note the earlier errors. 5

Papa Bear - Great recovery, notes and photos. NJ native and old-stone hunter (or, old stone-hunter) "seventhings" sends kudos for a first-rate job. 5 for 7

All - The following forwarded by CaseyB for Sat, 23rd September: The Captains’ Return Unveiling Ceremony Schedule 12:30 Boats Arrive at Levee 300’ South of The Captains’ Return (photos – 15 minutes) 12:45 St. Charles Fife & Drum/Re-enactors march in formation on levee to ceremony (10-15 minutes) 1:00 Presentation of Colors (Potawatomi) (1-2 minutes) Pledge of Allegiance (led by either Potawatomi or re-enactors) (1-2 minutes) Welcome – Mayor Slay (introduce General) (2 minutes) Remarks – Lieutenant General Carl Strock - Corps of Engineers (2 minutes) Remarks – Harry Weber (recognize Lucie Huger/Huger family/Michael Haynes) (3-4 minutes) Acknowledge Contributors – Bill Durham (recognize GSLCF and campaign/donors) (3-4 minutes) Remarks – Landon Jones (3-4 minutes) Remarks – Bud Clark (3-4 minutes) Unveil the Statue (Mayor Slay, Harry Weber, Cindy Huger, Michael Haynes, Bud Clark, Bill Durham and Landon Jones) (2-3 minutes) Dedication of NGS Marker – David Doyle Senior Geodesist NOAH (3 minutes) Fife & Drum eom

All - Steve Randall advises that the dedication ceremony for the new statue, The Captains' Return, will begin at 12:30 on Sat, Sep 23. The dedication of the commemorative disk will be a part of the statue's dedication, and will occur sometime between 12:30 and 1:00. The new statue is just south of the Eads Bridge along the riverfront. eom

All - CaseyB now advises that the dedication ceremony will more likely be at 1:00 eom

All - Relay from seventhings - Steve Randall (NGS Lewis and Clark projo) advises that a commemorative disk will be set "downtown near the NPS Arch, near where the new statue has been erected". He further advises that the dedication ceremony is tentatively scheduled for 11:00 AM, Saturday, September 23. eom

Relayed from seventhings: I thought the subject recovery was absolutley unprofessional. When I first started reporting recoveries to the NGS, I assumed that someone would edit my submissions. Fortunately, I never submitted a recovery that included humor, vulgarity, etc., but one of my early submissions included a lot of descriptive material (it was a Mason-Dixon Stone) that was exceedingly superfluous. It got added to the datasheet verbatim. Since then, I've assumed (correctly by my observations) that my recovery reports would be added to the database exactly as written. I keep them as short and to the point as possible. Regarding the "delay" in submissions and posting: I suspect that the database is updated in a batch process or something like it. That is, the recoveries get posted to the db whenever the process fits into someone's schedule. That may be two days, or it may be several weeks. Makes no difference to me - 7

bvrballs – Your conclusion is correct, but let me suggest a different line of reasoning. First, adjusted horizontal coordinates are always precise and 99.9 percent of the time, they’re accurate. Second, errors in the description section of the datasheet are fairly common (my guess, 30 percent). Most of the errors are minor, some are substantive. To conclude that the tower at FQ0712 is NOT FOUND or DESTROYED, you have to know or assume that there once was a tower over the t-station GRANDVIEW and it stood until at least 1934 (that tower was last mentioned in the 1934 recovery of the t-station), another tower was erected about 100 feet southeast and observed in 1934, that second tower was razed and a third tower was erected in 1936 on the exact same spot (as determinable by a handheld GPS) and on the same concrete footings as the second tower. Or, you can assume that the first tower was replaced in 1936 by a tower about 100 feet southeast and the datasheet typist typed “4” instead of “6”. The probability of the first narrative being true is vanishingly small. Disks are different. For most benchmark hunters, the stamping must match that listed or described in the datasheet, period.

Casey - 10:00 Sat 09/23 - got it, thanks + I assume the "where" is at the waterfront near the Arch. True? 5

Does anybody have definitive info on exactly where and when (date/time) for the dedication of the Lewis & Clark Commemorative disk?