NJ Admin

quote:Originally posted by PULASKI:I too have had numerous run-ins with approval nazis. It seems that volunteering to be an approver is a task that is undertaken only by those on a power trip. For the record, most of the current cache approvers did not ask for the job, they were chosen by the other approvers and TPTB. We accept the offer as a way to give back something extra to the community. If you take this job for a power trip, you are in for a rude awakening. It's far from it. We often spend hours a day reviewing caches and answering questions from other cachers. Hours we used to spend geocaching so you and others have new caches to find. We know every move we make gets reported back to the forums, and we know Jeremy will remove an admin that does appear to be on any sort of power trip. We get cursed at, insulted, and called nazis on a daily basis, yet still we try to be helpful and adhere to the guidelines. We have to approve the boxes of junk under a bush if they meet the guidelines, just like we approve virtuals that meet the guidelines. All that time and BS, and we do it for free. Yup, some power trip this is. quote:Originally posted by PULASKI:Why I ask, why, does Jeremy HATE virtuals and guide his legions of subservient approvers to deny almost all? The saddest thing of all is that MANY virtuals are handicapped accessible and MANY trads are not. If I was in a wheelchair I would be pissed that so many virtuals are denied. Some love virts, some hate them but there are many great locations where putting a box of junk in the bushes would only be a distraction. Learning something IS the goal not exchanging worthless trinkets. For some reason this is a hard concept for gc.com to understand. Geocaching started with a box full of trinkets in the bushes, not the with the coords to a statue. The word cache means a container, not a historic marker. When virtual caches were created, they were intended to be used only in places it was impossible or illegal to place a traditional stype cache. They were not intended as an alternative to a physical cache. For some reason this is a hard concept for some people to understand. This website lists waypoints for geocaches, not waypoints for tourist attractions, historic plaques, markers, scenic overlooks, old houses, big trees, blue fire hydrants or old sneakers. -------------------- Personal slave of The Frog.

Tick....tick....tick.... -------------------- Personal slave of The Frog.

quote:Originally posted by flask:it runs into the ban on caches commercial. i'm for it, though. i think it would be fun to go find a cache at mountains where i ski. i'm not for caches that promote the ski area. therein lies the giant grey area. Flask nailed it. It's a commercial establishment and private property, so you would first need permission from the resort owner, then you would need to get permission from Groundspeak before placing a cache there. -------------------- Personal slave of The Frog.

quote:Originally posted by lavarock11:I did not go to get your cache entitled "Mosquitoland" because there are mosquitos there right now. Autumn is more of my idea to go get that one. Unfortunately, I was driving by and placed a cache there. Believe me, it won't happen again, you and secret squirrel can relax. p.s. sorry I mentioned your 'cache' to get people to enjoy it. I'm not relaxing. Archiving caches in response to this thread is fine. Leaving the archived caches out there to add to the litter problem is not. Part of being a responsible cache owner is maintaining a cache. Retrieving an archived cache is part of maintaining it. If you can not maintain your caches, don't hide them. I have unarchived and disabled the caches that people have reported as still being out there. Please remove them ASAP so they can be properly archived. Thanks. -------------------- Personal slave of The Frog.

quote:Originally posted by BrianSnat:Would you repeat that in English? Translation, "I just had a cache declined because it was a marker too, LOL. This sucks. What can a cache be now?" The definition of a cache in the American Heritage Dictionary is: quote: A hiding place used especially for storing provisions. A place for concealment and safekeeping, as of valuables. A store of goods or valuables concealed in a hiding place No mention of signs. So the answer is, a cache is, if at all possible, a concealed container of some sort with at least a logbook, and possibly trade items inside. Cybercam's cache is a virtual cache on a street corner in Fredricksburg, VA. Home to thousands of civil war historical markers. The location is almost right next to a park. Here is the full cache decription: quote:In this cache you must find the date that the sign has on it, on the first line.Additional Hints (No hints available) That's it. The approver archived it with a note explaining the guidelines for virtual caches. The approver also mentioned the cache could be approved if more info was provided to show the guidelines were being met. -------------------- Personal slave of The Frog.

quote:Originally posted by Keystone Approver:I think that most of the approvers, or at least those in cache-dense areas, are now asking for the coordinates to each step of a multicache. So it doesn't matter where it starts. If any stage of the multicache is within 528 feet of another cache, including someone's existing virtual cache, that's a density problem. So moving the first stage of the multicache more than .1 miles away from the existing virtual cache doesn't help any. I think it's OK for separate stages of the same multicache to be less than 528 feet apart, in general. If I see something that's a problem I will try to suggest that the hider make some changes. For example, if two stages are 50 feet apart it's quite likely that someone would accidentally find stage 3 while searching for stage 2. And if there's 14 stages that average 200 feet apart, I might suggest a change to that multicache, too. -------------------- Don't mess with the frog. This is pretty much the standard the approvers use. No new rules or guidelines here. Just common sense. If stage 14 of Woodster's new 'PITA Cache' multicache is 30ft from Tahosa's 'Where's Ben?' cache (with $100 bill for the 1st 100 finders), I'm going to make Woody move stage 14 a few hundred feet, so people aren't finding Tahosa's cache by mistake. It works both ways. By my knowing where Woodster's stages are, I can prevent Sissy-n-CR from placing a cache 5ft from stage 47 (the final cache) of Woodster's. That might prevent something like this from happening again.

quote:Originally posted by ChurchCampDave: New Jersey is WAY TOO CLOSE to NY. Knives don't offend people everywhere, just in those places where the predominate political belief is that adults are not big enough to take care of themselves and need their friendly GOVERNMENT to watch over them all the time. A blanket rule regarding knives is ridiculous. Caint never did nothing. GDAE, Dave That quoted knife incident did not take place in NJ or NJ. It happened in Ohio, which is pretty rural by NJ standards. Not some big city. The problem isn't just in the city, it's worldwide. Like Carleen said; do I personally think a pocket knife, like the one my dad gave me when I was 10, is a major problem in caches? No. But I understand there is a percentage of the population that does. I also understand that some of that percentage is in the position to make laws which govern caching. Why give them them knives in caches when we can give them things like CITO instead?

quote:Originally posted by Xitron:can you post those stories for me to read? here is one: quote: Recently, a geocache was placed on park property and was discovered by our Park Ranger. Upon reading the log book, the staff of the Licking Park District discovered that the original owner placed a weapon inside the cache. It was placed near a well used trail and picnicking area. Had this cache been found by a school group or child, there could have been serious implications. Again, more Licking Park District Rules and Regulations were violated including: Section 3.2 Improper Transportation of A Dangerous Weapon in a Motor Vehicle and 3.3 Carrying Dangerous weapons which states: "No person, except law enforcement officers, shall have or carry any knives, daggers or other edged weapons, metal knuckles, slingshots, blow guns or other dangerous weapons on or about his or her person while in the parks." While we encourage visitors to hike our trails and enjoy our facilities, former geocachers violated several of our rules and regulations, thus our decision to outlaw geocaching on any Licking Park District property. We are a small organization and do not have the means to oversee the safety of your activity unlike many of the park districts that you have been able to work per our rules and regulations, any person or organization who violates them could be fined up to $1,000. Again, this isnt some lame excuse or power trip the geocaching.com staff is on. Stuff like this is a very real problem we have to deal with. I used to leave knives in caches myself, and I still have a few in stock, but if the choices are leave a knife in a cache and run the risk of getting caches in my area banned, or leave something else I bought at the dollar store that the land managers approve of, I'm going to try to make the land managers (who have the final say on our activity) happy. Simple enough, isn't it?

quote:Originally posted by M15a4spr:I agree, it's a silly rule. Wonder if the whiner that reported the 1" knife is the same type that trades "Good Stuff" for postcards, crayons, food or broken McToyz. Silly rule or not, there have been several incidents where a knife in a cache has caused geocaching to be seen in a negative light by land managers and police. Most parks have laws against weapons of any type, and most states define a knife of any size as a weapon. In one case, an entire county has banned caches in it's parks because of a knife found in a cache. With all the other things one can put in a cache, why risk casting a negative light on geocaching by leaving something the police, land managers, and media may consider dangerous or illegal?

By the way, you submitted the cache Aug 22, and the approver first attempted to contact you on Aug 23.

I took a quick look at your cache. If you read the logs the approver left on your cache page, he tried to contact you regarding your ability to maintain the cache. Since you never replied to his questions, he disabled your cache to remove it from the queue of caches still waiting to be approved. I suggest you contact the approver working on your cache via the email address he provided you.

You should have got a confirmation email when you submitted it. Can you please post or email me the GC# or the URL to the cache in question? I just took a look, and I didn't see any caches submitted by you in NH during the last 4 weeks.

Here is the cache in question: quote:Wonderful Waterfalls Part One Difficulty: 1.5 Terrain: 2 A short hike along a stream with some small waterfalls. Stop at the ranger station for Stokes State Forest (Route 206 N.) to get a map of the area. Go north past the ranger station on Rt. 206 for about a third of a mile and turn left on Struble Rd. Follow the signs or your GPS to get to Tillman Ravine. . The coordinates for the first parking area are N41.09.517 W74.51.512. There is another parking area about ¼ mile further down the road. Trails from either parking lot will take you where you want to go. Tillman Ravine is a pristine wilderness area. Please treat it with the respect and care that it deserves. A stream runs the length of the ravine and is shaded by large Hemlock trees. There are also rhododendron, ferns and fungi of all kinds as well as chipmunks and squirrels. While I was leaving the parking lot I saw a bear and three cubs. To log this cache find an old concrete structure that was used to direct the flow of water and measure the distance between the sidewalls. There are two man-made structures in this area that were used to direct water( see hint to be sure you have the correct one). E-mail me the measurement to get credit for logging this cache. I hiked the entire trail from the parking lot to the end and back in about an hour while stopping to take some photos and enjoy the water. Additional Hints (Encrypt) The object you are looking for can be measured with a yard stick. You would need a tape measure to measure the larger one So, as far as i can tell, this is a virtual for a chunk of concrete a few hundred feet from 2 roads. Last time I checked, concrete was a man-made object, and plenty of people visit this area every day, so I'm not sure you can really call this area pristine wilderness. There are also plenty of locations close by that are obviously not too enviromentally sensitive for a cache: roads, parking lots, concrete stuctures, rocks, trails.

quote:Originally posted by -=(GEO)=-:I've had a cache waiting in the queue for a few days now which is not usual. Does anyone know what's going on? http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/82972_1100.jpg Sorry, it was smack in the middle of 11 NY caches on hold until monday and I guess I missed it. Thank's Keystone for alerting me.

quote:Originally posted by Crusso:Anyway, I've had a cache listing stuck in the queue for a week now. No, it's not stuck in the queue. It was archived, and after you asked that I look at it again, it stayed archived. quote:Originally posted by Crusso:between the log in problems, cache approvals in limbo, etc. Things don't seem to be improving. And neither is this cache. I did reply to your email when you 1st changed the cache. You are correct, it's a big job, and if I have to keep repeating myself over and over, other caches don't get approved. The cache is now a 2 part multi-virtual. The objects you need to find are graffiti. Illegally painted graffiti. Even though you say the "bldg owners have decided to keep the "art" as decoration", the local news reports mention that the building owners who haven't removed this "art" are being fined. You also have no real verification question other then the solution to this puzzle: "The 2nd location you must find is located at N x0 yx.xyy by W 073 47.017 Where x&y are equal to 2 of the digits in the word "melon", converted numerically; A=1, b=2, etc. If a numeric equivelant is two digits like 23 or 18, just use the 2nd digit, ie: 3 for 23 & 8 for 18. Hint: X&Y are consecutive numbers!" and "Also in your email give me a little site info about the two locations posted above so I know you actually visited them." So, to recap, your cache was declined for a second time because: 1: its temporary (it's just a matter of time before the graffiti is cleaned off the buildings) 2: it's illegal 3: it's a virtual cache for graffiti 4: there is no solid verification question If you can get the law changed to legalize defacing other people's property, get the town to change it's zoning laws to allow the now legal graffiti to stay, and come up with a better form of verification, I'll be happy to review your cache for a 3rd time. I still won't approve graffiti as a virtual cache though.

Which event was that again? (full cache description of each event below) GCGFMB - First Expedition to locate the Starnes Island boat-only cache Someone please bring a boat, and indicate the number of passengers you can haul. This will be held Saturday Morning July 19th at 9AM. GCGFMC - Second expedition to Starnes Island - Sunday Evening at 7PM Someone please bring a boat, and indicate how many folks you can haul. The meeting place is at Mansfield Dam park, unless someone has a better more convenient launch point, then send me the coordinates! GCGFMD - Third and final expedition to Starnes Island - Tuesday July 22 at 7PM Somebody please bring a boat, and indicate how many folks you can carry in it. Thanks. Launching point is Mansfield Dam park, unless there is a more convenient location for boat - launching, let us know the coordinates and I'll update 'em. 3 events to find one cache?

quote:Originally posted by 9Key: Just don't ask NJApprover about parks and sruff - he's clueless. Yeah, he is! So is that 6key guy! I hear he ruins everything!

Ed, I checked for you and I don't see anything listed for you in the queue waiting to be approved. As a matter of fact, there is only one cache in the whole state of PA waiting. Did you submit a new cache or rework your old cache? If you changed your old cache, you need to send the approver an email. Make sure you mention the url or the gc# of the cache. If you don't email her, she has no way of knowing you changed the cache. If it was a new cache, did you get an email confirming it was actually submitted? If it's listed on your cache page, you are more then welcome to email me the url through my profile and i will check on it's progress for you.

quote:Originally posted by Crusso:4. Exact coords given to admin - I would email exact coords to admin for approval w/o a problem but frankly I don't see the difference in this as opposed to posting coords of a trail head & having the cache somewhere else. How does admin know where that cache is actually located? We will know because you will tell us. We need the actual location of the cache to ensure it meets the guidelines. If you just tell me the trailhead, how will we know that the cache isn't in the middle of RR tracks, or in a National Park or 5ft from an existing cache? quote:Originally posted by Crusso:Ok After taking a long shower & pondering this thread my question is this: How does my proposal differ from a puzzle cache where the cacher has to do a mathematical or other problem to fill in coordinates? Unless he answers every question correctly the chance is that he will end up somewhere other than intended. Yet these caches are approved. At least with my cache only one coord is missing. These type caches have the potential for sending someone to far more than 60 alternate locations. Are you telling me that every puzzle cache has every single permutation of answers checked to be sure they are all on legitimate caching sites? I doubt it. Again, not trying to be a B-buster, just trying to get this approved without doing an end run around admin. There is a 50 mile difference between this and any any recently approved puzzle cache. We ask that the bogus waypoint be within 1 mile of the actual cache, and preferably is the entrance or parking coordinates. This puts the hider in the right area, yet still forces them to solve the puzzle to find the cache. By using bogus minutes of one coordinate, the cache could actually be over 50 miles from the posted coordinates, Where you live, 50 miles could put the cache in 4 different states. This means your cache may very well show up as local for people it really isn't, but people who are local to it might never even notice, since the listing may show in a different state, or be buried 20 pages down in the nearest cache list. With a puzzle cache, since you know where the general area is, you can usually tell right away if you solved the puzzle wrong. If your solution is outside the park, or 2 miles away from the posted coordinates, you made a mistake. No need to look. With what you propose, up to 60 locations are going to be trampled and overturned by geocachers looking for something that isn't there in 59 of the locations. Since they don't know if they are in the proper spot or not, and since they may have to drive several hrs to return if they missed it, you can be sure they are leaving no stone unturned. You mentioned you envisioned people working together, posting what spots didn't yield a cache. If they were just looking for a logbook and a few broken mctoys, I might agree. Since there will be a valuable prize for the first finder however, it would not be in their best interests to share this info with other players. Some may even post deliberate misinformation to slow the other players down. So every player is going to have to trash 500 square feet at up to 60 different waypoints if they want to win.

quote:Originally posted by Firefishe:I'd like to see this, primarily to be able to download waypoints from one page instead of many pages. Just use the Pocket Queries to download up to 500 waypoints at once.

quote:Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:Wouldn't the approver have to know the actual coordinates of it, to approve it? And then they wouldn't be posted on the cache page? Yes we would have to know the actual cache location. I would pass a cache like this onto another approver well outside the region at that point, since I am still a geocacher first, and would want to find the cache myself, fair and square.

Great idea running it through the forums first, Crusso. As the guy who would actually make the decision on this cache, I think have to admit I would probably ask the other approvers and Groundspeak for input on this one, but I'm leaning toward no. It does sound interesting, but as you pointed out yourself, there are several issues. As Verboten mentioned, you are looking at a huge search area. The fact that many areas are on private property, dangerous, or illegal isn't going to stop some cachers from searching there. Not judging by the number of cache hides submitted that are on private property, dangerous, or illegal. Without some sort of hint, I think it would be virtually impossible to find the cache. Look how long it often takes to find a cache when you only have a few hundred square feet. You're talking square miles of search area. It seems like the cache as submitted is a one time only cache. "When first found the prize would be well worth it & then the cache will revert to a normal one." One time only caches are generally not approved. The mention of it being a one time only cache with a great first prize makes it sound a lot like a contest, something Jeremy commented on just last night in this thread: quote:Originally posted by Jeremy (Admin):I despise caches that involve a race to the prize, and will continue to discourage them. If you want to create an event cache and have a race there, fine. Frankly it's ludicrous. If I place a cache anywhere in the US there is always someone at an advantage to arriving at that location first. Don't expect the geocaching.com site to accomodate these kinds of caches. If you like to watch people scramble for cash, join or watch a reality show. Jeremy Irish Groundspeak - The Language of Location Perhaps this idea would be better suited as an off-site, private contest. You could announce it in the forums, and have people interested contact you. Then email all interested parties the cache description at the start of your contest. After it's been found, and the cache reverts to a traditional cache, it could be posted on geocaching.com. edit: The boss beat me to it! There you go, that's why the approvers and Groundspeak discuss these things before approving or archiving them. If the cache was set up as Jeremy suggested, there would be no problem approving it. I think however, that what Jeremy suggested would remove a significant challenge that Crusso had intended. So I guess the discussion is still open on is this approvable as initially suggested? [This message was edited by NJ Admin on July 08, 2003 at 08:48 AM.]

quote:Originally posted by Keystone Approver:So there's ten or so caches for six states. Not so bad, following a holiday weekend. Be patient and some of them will show up soon, I'm sure. The site slow downs Jeremy mentioned in the announcements section affect the approvers same as every other cacher, maybe more, since we might load 5-10 pages while reviewing one cache. All those server busy messages made it very hard to review a cache. I think I counted over 800 new caches submitted this weekend, we're getting to them as fast as we can.

The Tarrytown Horsemen have logged into the website as recently as a month ago. Their profile says they have been away, but are now back. I will make another attempt at contacting them about the caches they still have out there.

quote:Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:Keystone, it's good to hear that type of stuff. Keep feepding us situations...they tend to be humorous... Some recent ones: Go to the coordinates and email me what's in the tree. Answer:sneakers Look up these coordinates on a map. To log a find, email me the name of this island. Sure they sound pretty funny, but the truth is, in the time it takes to explain to one guy why I archived his gladware cache full of ammo and condoms buried inside a railroad tunnel that runs through a national park, I could have approved 20 caches submitted by guys like BrianSnat. I feel bad that I might not even get a chance to approve a good cache for a day or two because of the time spent on caches that should never have been submitted.