giddeanx

I was curious about the archived caches. Somewhere in this thread it said they were placed for the seventh iteration of an event. Were the caches originally placed on the organizations request or were they placed independently? I was wondering if the organization thought they had some ownership since they were caches from an old event. Just trying to understand the nuance of it.

I've been around a while and have seen many geocaching organizations. My observation is that increasing the level of structure increases the level of drama in a directly proportional manner. The very loosely knit organizations (and communication mechanisms) have the least interpersonal conflict because the control oriented individuals can be easily ignored. Having worked for an international fraternal organization I agree wholeheartedly. Structured organizations need strong bylaws otherwise members have no recourse for leadership's wrong doing. There's always the mass exodus approach. That is a consequence of having no recourse.

I've been around a while and have seen many geocaching organizations. My observation is that increasing the level of structure increases the level of drama in a directly proportional manner. The very loosely knit organizations (and communication mechanisms) have the least interpersonal conflict because the control oriented individuals can be easily ignored. Having worked for an international fraternal organization I agree wholeheartedly. Structured organizations need strong bylaws otherwise members have no recourse for leadership's wrong doing.

Well you are going to have to get creative for this. I took a look at some guys available for train sets and have some potentials for you. Top center appears to be lifting a lamp post skirt. On top left it looks like he is trying to figure out a puzzle cache or a stage on a tricky multi. While the others have found the largest geocache ever. (Just needs a little paint) The top left guy here could be used for searching under a bush. The lady in brown just got the cache. This little old lady isn't hunched over with the pains of old age. She is looking for a cache armed with her faithful poking stick and caching bag. Cachers are everywhere. You just have to be creative.

If we are working toward the same goal, at some point one must make certain presumptions. Groundspeak has already crossed that line when they created the beginner caches. Groundspeak presumed that caches with a low D/T rating, which have been found recently, are probably easier to find. Excluding micros is naught but an extension of the logic Groundspeak has already acted upon. As for unfair, one need only read all the threads from beginners bemoaning their difficulties in finding micros. If all other considerations are equal, it is typically easier to find a Greyhound bus parked in a hedge, than ito find a nano bot in the same hedge. On another note, regarding your claims of unfairness, I can think of scads of caches I have located in mere moments, which had a D/T rating above that selected by Groundspeak for their beginner caches. The same is true for caches which have had numerous DNFs and/or had not been found in quite some time. Is it 'fair' that Groundspeak excludes moderately high D/T ratings and caches which have not been found recently? Groundspeak presumed, rightly so, that certain cache types are easier to find for beginners. This has nothing to do with hating a particular cache size. Rather, it is about trying to ensure that new players don't get frustrated. While it's true that there are micros out there which are beginner friendly, judging by the sheer volume of frustrated noob posts, easy peasy micros are not necessarily the norm. Groundspeak has already come up with certain criteria they use to determine if caches are "beginner-friendly". History shows us that cache type and size do, to a degree, affect how easy a cache is to find. And a lot of newbies start this pastime as a thing to do with their family, which often includes small children. Children typically prefer swag-size caches. If you want to get a family hooked, make the kids happy. One of the first caches I went for with my kids was designated a beginner's cache. As soon as they saw the swag they were hooked. Immediately, I could give my wife a break by Geocaching with the kids. So in this case it worked. As far as the hate of micros goes, 2 of my 3 children don't like micros, because there is no "stuff" inside. The other just enjoys the hunt. I wonder if I can get a government grant for my study.

The "beginner caches" on geocaching.com are defined as: Seems reasonable to me.

A tool is anything used as a means of accomplishing a task or purpose. As a web developer, I would consider the website, GSAK and the app as different interfaces to the same database. With that I would consider them all as tools as they are all used manipulate and view the information on the database.

Looks like the cache had a nice long life there in the park. Maybe it was the most recent replacement that made is suspect. Who knows? Maybe someone should call up the Venice police and get them set up with a Geocaching account. GCW87H

You thought big thumbs were a problem while using a smartphone, hooves are impossible.

Maybe this one will be more visible.

:laughing: :laughing: Bahahahaaha! Yeah, $25 for creating, filling out, filing, maintaining a database, meeting with interested associations or individuals, coordinating with other managers and their superiors if questions or concerns come up, adding routine checks to their patrols. Half-hour to an hour. Right. Therein is another "lazy government" stereotype I don't care much for. Versus putting in 2 hours for a CITO with a dozen or so other geocachers once a year, voting for folks who would replace previous budgets to land agencies, or donating money to "Friends of X Park", or just paying the $25. At least one can actually place a cache there, thanks to the efforts of other advocates who put in their time to get a place to stay open to geocaching or reopen for geocaching. Sorry...burr in my boot today. Wow you put a whole lot more meaning in that than was intended. I was just equating it to a salary. Either at $25 - 50 an hour. I never said anything about lazy government. Some one entering the cache in the database, a preliminary visit, and handling calls if there are any. Also you don't charge the entire cost of "developement" of an excel spreadsheet (database really?)to only one customer. Please, do explain what you meant with $25-$50/hour and salary. Also, please let me know what kind of first-hand experience you have being on the side of the desk that has to create and maintain any type of policy that might relate to something like geocaching. Then, hopefully I can understand where you are trying to come from with statements like yours. It's more than alien55's assertion of "the back of an envelope" to track, document, maintain, and develop processes for a special use permit. So, to me, $25 isn't that much to ask when I'm sitting on my side of the desk. Now, if I were on the geocacher side of the desk, I'd think it was a tad high. But, if I really wanted to have a cache there, I'd be glad to follow whatever policy is in place. It is a game, after all...and a game that they don't have to let us play on their land. Not true. I suppose you don't really understand why I said that either. Comments like yours are a burr in my boot. Thus my pointed reply. People, no matter what they do, get compensated for the work that they do. I was estimating the salary of a park ranger to be around $25-50 dollars an hour. That maybe high but there are other factors and people involved. If, as Keystone indicated, this is a way to defer the cost of the Ranger's salary and other factors $25 seems reasonable. I wasn't aware I needed some credentials to make an opinion. Especially one that seems to agree with yours. I think you were reading sarcasm where there was none.

Not counting forum time. I would say that I use my smartphone for about 80% of my geocaching activities, but I will go back to the website to edit logs, generate PQ's, and plan for larger trips away from the house. The app is very good at the "Hey, while I'm out, I wonder if there is a cache near me." type of expeditions. I find that most of the hunting is done with the smartphone using the newly acquired GPSr as a sort of "second (usually better) opinion".

:laughing: :laughing: Bahahahaaha! Yeah, $25 for creating, filling out, filing, maintaining a database, meeting with interested associations or individuals, coordinating with other managers and their superiors if questions or concerns come up, adding routine checks to their patrols. Half-hour to an hour. Right. Therein is another "lazy government" stereotype I don't care much for. Versus putting in 2 hours for a CITO with a dozen or so other geocachers once a year, voting for folks who would replace previous budgets to land agencies, or donating money to "Friends of X Park", or just paying the $25. At least one can actually place a cache there, thanks to the efforts of other advocates who put in their time to get a place to stay open to geocaching or reopen for geocaching. Sorry...burr in my boot today. Wow you put a whole lot more meaning in that than was intended. I was just equating it to a salary. Either at $25 - 50 an hour. I never said anything about lazy government. Some one entering the cache in the database, a preliminary visit, and handling calls if there are any. Also you don't charge the entire cost of "developement" of an excel spreadsheet (database really?)to only one customer. Also if you need to post a sorry at the end of a comment then it dosent need written.

I would say this (the fee) is more of a soft no. That way they can have less of an activity they don't like and don't have to make a stand at the same time. It also prevents you from making a stand against them. What is more political than that? I think both your theories are wrong as applied to PA State Parks, though they may be correct elsewhere. As the senior cache reviewer for Pennsylvania, who got that job shortly after being part of the group of geocachers who negotiated PA DCNR's original policy, let me explain why. Back in 2002 when PA DCNR announced a desire to regulate geocache placements, the State Parks were more pro-caching than the State Forests. The original policy was a compromise between the two agencies and involved a two-step paperwork process, but no fee. Lots of caches got placed in Parks, who were quick to grant approval and helpful in suggesting good areas, while few caches were placed in State Forests, whose rangers took months to respond to permit requests. From personal experience from 2003 through the time when the fee was introduced, PA State Parks were most definitely pro-geocaching. It is not "an activity they don't like." I published hundreds of state park caches. I hid four myself, in the same park where I hosted the world's first CITO Event. What happened was that the financially strapped DCNR said that all ancillary activities in State Parks had to be self-sustaining, through permits, use fees or otherwise. As noted, there are no entrance fees or park passes in Pennsylvania. The State Parks chose to impose a permit fee to cover the cost of the environmental review, staff time in processing the paperwork, etc. Once the fee went into effect, the rate of state park cache placements plunged faster than a dress on prom night. At the same time, state forest placements picked up a bit, as they do not charge a fee for their permit. State Game Land cache placement rates have skyrocketed, as there's no paperwork OR fee involved there. All three agencies still support geocaching. Several state parks continue to hide caches, including for the "Ranger Rick" series. It's important to note that State Park managers may waive the fee in exchange for the cache owner organizing a CITO event, introduction to geocaching event, trail-building day, or other service to the park. And, they've been pretty good in looking the other way when caches placed prior to the fee system reached their three-year expiration date. Ah that is interesting. So the fee really was put in place so they could keep allowing geocaching. With the $25 dollars compensation for the Rangers half-hour to hour of work. Thank you for the history lesson.

I live in an adjoining State (New York), so don't take my word for it, and I could be totally wrong, but I'm of the opinion the Commonwealth of Pa. led the way on a crazy $25 fee for cache permits. It can't possibly be the first political entity in all of North America to charge a fee, but it probably hadn't (or still hasn't) been done on that scale. Nice to see a County within Pa. following suit with a fee. (that was sarcasm). I think the fee has been in place 2-3 years, so I'm surprised more Counties in Pa. aren't doing the same. By the way, I don't think it's a revenue grab, just some "person at the top who made the policy", who was clueless other States weren't charging. I would say this (the fee) is more of a soft no. That way they can have less of an activity they don't like and don't have to make a stand at the same time. It also prevents you from making a stand against them. What is more political than that?

I guess when you have such a large cache you can use a dog for swag.

I was just imagining someone calling me on my vacation. My response would most likely be "Who died? Oh, nobody? Well we'll see you in a week." But since your friend started the exchange I don't feel as bad. Maybe next time though you can lend them a loaded gps and they can find the tropical caches at their leisure.

The whole situation seems very odd to me. Are they calling you and asking where these geocaches are? Or are you finding caches and calling them on their vacation?

I am assuming you have already done an advanced search on drum? Drum Ah I see those are only ones beginning with drum...

I found some form letters that might help in your journey. Once I hit 100 finds I will be joining you as well. So others may have some comments on what should be added to them. Letters are good as they give you time to compose your message, they are more professional, and let you be your introverted self. Form Letters

It's certainly possible for someone to arrive really early and hang out until the official start time. Perhaps, they don't live very close to the event location and took the entire day off. Does the event location serve alcohol? Exactly, they needed to get their drink on. Just because they got there and logged early doesn't mean they didn't attend.

I am a fan of hunters sausage. Easier on the teeth than beef jerky.

Was making the story look like a large print Reader's Digest intentional? If it was, well played sir well played.

Makes me want to go watch all your caches "as an experiment". Day 8: Subject seems to be trying to communicate by sending notes. However communicating with the subject will cloud future results. Day 47: Subject seems to have tired of my constant watching and is now throwing spam.