Snoogans

Thou hast committed a sin most foul! I'm just doing my part to turn prophecy into reality. I shall not rest until I have destroyed geocaching.

Let us all give thanx that this spat occurred, and pray that it expands to the rest of the country. HEY! I just hid the best guardrail cache EVER. Would that be like the cleanest dumpster hide? I dunno. Seeing the spot where a 2 million dollar car took a swim in salt water has a special appeal for some.

Sorry, this is where you lost me. Other than the quality of the physical cache container everything else is an aesthetic value. Everyone's aesthetic is different. I've met Jeremy several times and Bryan a couple of times and I agree that they are great guys all around but cache listings are what keep the blood pumping for Groundspeak. Let's not get sidetracked by their relative coolness. I'm sure I like them just as much as you do. It doesn't preclude me having an opinion. My post was just about appreciating the irony. It was delicious. Now I need to go brush before I get a cavity.

I had completed the first 2 of 3 accident investigation courses when Willimax died in Dresden last year. During the third class I showed my instructor the highlights of the Willimax thread and shared my analysis of the facts available and informed him about what I thought needed to happen to improve the culture. I also told him that I was informed that pretty much wasn't gonna happen. Thus my abrupt exit from the thread. His response was remarkably close to what you wrote. He also pointed it out as a potentially costly mistake for a big company and possibly a severely crippling mistake for a small one. I really like Groundspeak. I hope it never comes to that. I would be interested to hear from one of our geocaching lawyers about why GS would choose duck and cover over active care.

It was part of an interview: Q ) "To finish with, a hypothetical. If you could hide one last geocache, what wouldnt it be and where wouldnt you put it?" A ) "I wouldnt hide a tiny geocache in a Wal-Mart parking lot under a metal lamp pole skirt. Thats not my idea of a fun adventure for anyone." The irony in that statement is so sweet that my teeth hurt. Since every cache listed and active adds somewhere between $10 & $20 to Groundspeak's actual sale value at present. Somewhere around $30 & $40 to it's speculated but unoffered sale value. Garmin didn't park its tanks on Groundspeak's lawn for no reason at all ya know. Yep that guardrail micro I just hid is worth exactly the same as Necropolis of Britannia Manor III as listings go.

I live in Houston most of the year and my farthest FTF was in Gallup, NM, oover 1,000 miles away.

I fear that as long as Groundspeak dodges liability, they will never "care." And it is just a matter of time before some kid gets killed on a highway trying to find a guardrail cache, or someone climbs a tree on state property and breaks their neck - and then said state tries ot figure out a way to pin it on Groundspeak - they can't dodge the posibility of some sort of liability forever. I am not saying "take these kinds of caches away" by any means. But they cannot keep ignoring the risks involved with caching and saying nothing about it other then "we are just a listing service" and pin it on the heads of non-paid volunteers to monitor caches. I'm no lawyer, but I know Duty of Care has its basis in English common law and has been practically applied in the USA. OSHA positively dwells on it, but this is not a matter for them. I put "person" in italics because it illustrate the point that the duty to care starts with us, but it can also and has been interpreted as an entity like Groundspeak. If the exact same perfect storm situation that happened in Germany were to happen here in the USA, where the deceased, the community, the review/reporting process, and the CO all failed in some way, you can bet the lawsuits would fly and disclaimer or not some of it would stick because of Duty of Care. The deepest pockets would get hit first and folks, that's bad for all of us because money that would be better spent on developement of this site would be getting sucked up by lawyers and judgements. If we all get onboard, then maybe Groundspeak would respond in kind. Doesn't it look better to say "Despite our various disclaimers and legal protections as a listing service, Groundspeak's greatest assets are its customers, volunteers, and employees. In that respect we have tried to raise personal safety/security awareness and have supported such safety initiatives as X-example, y-example, z-example, etc." Rather than "Here's our disclaimer and guidelines. We're covered." I personally believe that as the largest facilitator of geocaching worldwide and as a reasonable person/entity, the caring approach to arse covering is going to be cheaper in the long term and put a much more positive spin when something does happen.

The point is participation and contribution to the sport/game/hobby/activity. I used to hide mainly adventure type caches, but I've expanded my taste for hiding to the occasional P&G. A wise cacher (Nov64) stated at a recent event that caches are like burgers and steaks. When she is in the mood for hamburger, any old P&G will do. When she wants a big fat juicy steak, she loads up her pack and heads down the trail. I made the comment at a statewide event recently, that there is probably a subset of cachers who only like to hunt in parking lots and well lit public places. 4 hands shot up within 2 yards of me. All ladies in their 50's. The great thing about geocaching is that caches are just choices for how to spend our free quality time. If you don't get the point of a cache, you can bet someone else will. Resistance is futile. Geocaching is evolving and we all know what evolution does....

Let us all give thanx that this spat occurred, and pray that it expands to the rest of the country. HEY! I just hid the best guardrail cache EVER. I actually just bought one of those while I was in Germany (red & silver). It's sitting on my desk in my office! I heard the incident referenced was found to be a case of insurance fraud. Yes, but did you notice that I addressed how to safely get this cache?

I am admittedly behind in my brushing up on Groundspeak policy..... The issue TO ME is NOT policy... It's culture. There is a don't ask don't tell culture here when it comes to caches that get published that do not meet guidelines. There's mayyyybe 1 or 2 cachers in every community that will report problems with caches that do not meet guidelines. The comments that get made about these folks are for the most part unflattering. On the flipside of that you have folks that abuse the reporting system or just plain don't get how to use it properly, but they all get lumped together in the negative pile. Change needs to start with US, but it needs to be supported by Groundspeak. Personal geocaching safety awareness and reporting guideline violations needs to be stressed in Groundspeak's various media and event hosts need to be encouraged (not required) to bring it up as a topic of discussion for at least 5 minutes at every event. There is an element of safety/security risk that cachers have when we are engaged in our activity that is greater than most muggles. Other sports have adopted a culture of safety mindset out of necessity where the risk is very great like shooting sports, sky diving, and scuba diving. Most folks just don't see the need in geocaching which is why I have been mostly quiet on this issue... Hey Snoog, this ain't shootin' or scuba.... But ask Willimax's family, in Dresden, and they will tell you that dead is dead. Nearly all of the injuries and the geocaching deaths I have looked into are basically the fault of the person who was injured or who died and the reasons are always the same: Rushing, fatigue, frustration, prior medical condition, and mainly complacency which contributes to the following critical errors: Eyes not on task, mind not on task, placing one's self in the line of fire (I.E. traffic, too close to a dropoff, etc.), and finally inattention to balance, traction, or grip. Personal safety/security would seem like common sense, but it isn't. It needs to be taught and reinforced by a culture. And a culture is driven by its leaders. As the worlds largest facilitator of Geocaching, Groundspeak does have a duty to care whether they see it or not. Their disclaimers are not care. Their guidlines are not care. Care comes from showing a concern for the people who use their listing service and offering information/awareness and supporting programs to make geocaching a safer activity for everyone through continuous improvement. Honestly, how long would you last at a gun range without eye and ear protection before someone confronted you? When is the last time you headed into the woods to cache and you remembered or someone told you to put on your safety glasses? Now, how many of you have been poked in the eye by a branch while caching? Just sayin'....

Let us all give thanx that this spat occurred, and pray that it expands to the rest of the country. HEY! I just hid the best guardrail cache EVER.

12/12/12 is my son's 5th birthday and I'm taking the day off of work. I'm hosting a 12/12/12 event at 12:12a.m. that morning while he is sleeping and attending a 12/12 event while he is at school. We're actually celebrating his birthday in a party room at the Houston Children's Museum that weekend.

Just sayin'... Post your RACKETEER coin sightings here. Pardon the pun.

The gold travel slug in the upper left of this photo has defected from the fridge door after 5 years to join your trackable community. I don't need 2 of my own trackables on my fridge door anymore.

My wife had some choice words for me when that thing appeared at our door. She was ticked the FIRST time I brought it home.

All trackables must make it to me by December 7. I will be re-releasing the fridge door at my White Elephant Event on 12/8. PM or email me and I will let you know where to send your trackable.

I'm sure that will be the #1 thing on her "to do" list for the honeymoon I know the area well and I know lots of folks who have done the series... That right there sounds like a recipe for disaster unless the bride to be is as equally gung ho for doing that series. I'll probably do the series some day, but I won't be driving and it won't be in my car. It looks to me more like geocaching torture than anything real exciting....

Some time ago, a wonderful power trail series came out which now totals 135 caches. The CO did not want one person rushing through getting all the FTF, so he tried to create a system that would have them shared. Each cache page had the following info: NOTE: As the XXXXXXXXX crew is not into FTF's, only one FTF/cacher will be recognized! For example, the first cacher to find #1 will be the FTFer and the second finder on #2 will be the FTFer for that cache and the third cacher on #3 will be the FTFer for that cache and so on. So all cachers will have a shot at an FTF in this series!! There are FTF prizes in the last cache in this series which gives the FTFer a coffee! Just use the info on the prize to obtain your coffee. Remember ONE FTF/cacher!! There will be over 100 caches in the series and thus more than 100 FTF's! It didnt really work and ended up being kind of silly. I dont think there are more than 60 finds on any of them so I guess there are still FTF's available. Here are two logs So the reason for doing these in reverse is to get to the FTF quicker. 7th finder of this one. Awesome old tree. SL. TNLN. Thanks. FTF! Umm, errr, hmm...is that Fourth or First to? Ha ha. Love the series so far. This was even a little exciting. To actually do close to 50 caches before getting one 'First'. Still work to do too! That is just super silly. If I was the third finder on the third cache, I would not check the FTF box in my GSAK database. If I found it first, I would. As far as I know, I'm the only one keeping track of my FTFs. If I was third and the CO put a "Congrats to Don_J for FTF", I'd probably order them a remedial math book from Amazon.com. Agreed. We are ALL now a little dumber for having been exposed to that CO's screwball logic.

14 trackables and 7 pathtags ready to attach to the fridge door. I will be re-releasing it on December 8th, so you still have time if you want to join...

Funny, I once found a cache (rather challenging) called Handicapper General. I/we weren't FTF though. Kurt really knows how to cut through the crap and get to the point, doesn't he? Ya know, I bet many of the folks who endlessly whine about FTF hogs will read that story and not see how it applies to geocaching.

Funny, I once found a cache (rather challenging) called Handicapper General. I/we weren't FTF though. Kurt really knows how to cut through the crap and get to the point, doesn't he? Ya know, I bet many of the folks who endlessly whine about FTF hogs will read that story and not see how it applies to geocaching.

I think millionaires and billionaires are inconsiderate, they should give me some of their money even though I didn't earn it or deserve it. This thread nagged at something in the back of my mind when it was first posted. I finally figured out what it was.... Here, read this very short story by Kurt Vonnegut. I rest my case.

I bet they don't have any in their collection like these... They ALL have this image on the back side:

Oh the irony of this thread. It's delicious.

Welcome to Geocaching, you are catching on really fast. I found out its best to be fake. Works out nicely. Really SF? You must be really insecure. To WeeLurk, You have been around at least a couple of years, so you know geocaching is an all volunteer sport/hobby/activity. Without the good graces of other cachers this activity wouldn't exist at all... Sometimes it's best just to be polite. No fakeness is needed. There are better places (like your local forum or better yet email) to air out opinions than on an event page where most folks are giving thanks to the host. The words family, and family reunion are your que to go for polite. I personally don't think you did anything wrong and I know from behind the scenes that there are no hard feelings. Give a local event a try. Don't be discouraged. NC is an awesome place to be a geocacher and attend events. You'll see.