GEO WALKER

I too am a geologist and being there is a whole lot better than looking at a photo. The two things that impress me most are one the successful efforts of the non earth science majors. Secondly, the responses from children are a pleasure in themselves. If there is a photo, you cane see and read the enjoyment they get from learning. I guess this might be the perspective of a mentor???

The best thing to do would be to have an activity that is directly related to the visit. It’s like anything in life, those who a going to “cheat” will always find a way to accomplish that goal. I can only hope they spend more time and effort in that than if they actually did things properly. All of that for just a “smiley”

After reading the above post and others, maybe we should lessen the photo requirement to just the site with GPSr being shown if the cacher wishes not to have their face shown. I know that we require the person to be in the pic but maybe we should loosen up! Marge and I all ready make all kinds of exceptions but I am thinking of changing the requirement to something like this: NOTE: Please post a photo of you and your GP Sr with the EC (named) in the background. If you do not want to post a photo with your or others faces showing, please post a photo of your GPSr with the EC in the background. Do you think this approach is feasible? Anyone got some better language? As for one who prefers the backside of a camera and who had to learn the outstretched arm approach to the self-portrait, while understanding the issue of not having faces in the photo. I think this is a very reasonable solution to the problem. I too have shown leniency on photos.

How about presenting this from a hydrology angle, groundwater recharge, flood mitigation, or surface water filtration?

I don’t want to sound like "The Devil’s Advocate” here… “Quality” has a much different value to someone w/a BS, MS or PhD degree(s) in the Earth Sciences than that of the non-science trained individual a.k.a. your typical “cacher”. I have always thought that the whole purpose of an Earthcache was to spark a persons interest and bring them to a location so that they [not the creator of the EC] walk away w/a much better understanding and knowledge of the area of interest w/out getting too technical. Granted there may be a flood [no pun intended] of Gauging Station ECs, but stop and think just how many walkers, joggers, cyclist, and everyday type of folks go by one of these on a rails-to-trail and not realize just what that structure is or what importance it holds in floodwater control and community water supply management. I would love to do an EC on one of the Lock and Dams here in Pittsburgh but I can see the Army Corp of Engineers having issues w/the public waltzing around. Must be the reason for the No Trespass Signs??? Given their dispersal throughout the country and the fact that many “cachers” travel w/in a limited geographical area I feel that they are a useful and educational based on nothing more that an awareness of what they are.

I can see the use of the photo for verification but the questions should also verify the visit. As for the “ugly cacher syndrome”, do what I do... I have found a baseball cap, sunglasses and a beard are quite helpful. Here in Pittsburgh some of the local banks asking for the removal of ball caps and sunglasses.

If you’re looking for a volunteer in SW PA [uSA] I would like to discuss this option when it becomes available. There finally seems to be a growing interest here in EC's. I’ve offered to help those who are interested in setting up ECs. Geo Walker

Thanks for the update... Good news for a Black & Gold Sunday!

Is there any way you could work in the importance of the local geography/geology? Say a bluff, stream confluence, transportation/trade route and work in the history from there.

Congratulations and Good Job...

Thanks for the additional information. I now have a better understanding of what it was you were describing. I find the lack of surface streams in the area and connective streams among the Kettle Lake interesting. According to the Map it looks like there is a small kettle depression just N of Second Lake within the WDNR State Natural Area #226. Perhaps if there is a trail have the participant use the GPSr to walk around this depression and measure the distance. Other options may include designating a particular trail segment and apply the measuring requirement. Perhaps there is a glacial boulder nearby? Another thought might be to have them measure the distance and or elevation along the road that is the base of the tunnel channel/discharge area say from Sherman Lake NE to the base of the next hill. The trick here looks to be avoiding private propertyand endangered habitat. If there is a museum or office with a display, perhaps questions could be derived from them. Information Trail Signs are also good. Again, this is a good point for the photo. To avoid “Armchairing” this I would pick a good point along a trail for the photo. It appears the there is an Ice Age Trail Group that may be of some help to you. This looks like a very promising EC and hope the suggestions helped… Maybe someday I’ll make it to WI?

I’m a bit confused by the term channel tunnel, a.k.a. “The Chunnel”, which connects the UK w/the rest of Europe. Based on the description, geologically, I’m interpreting this as an Esker or a Kettle Lake. http://geology.com/dictionary/glossary-e.shtml ESKER A long winding ridge of sorted sands and gravel. Thought to be formed from sediment deposited by a stream flowing within or beneath a glacier. http://geology.com/dictionary/glossary-k.shtml KETTLE A depression formed in glacial deposits when a buried block of ice, left behind by a retreating glacier, melts. Eskers are topographical sediment remnants in the form of a hill, and your description is of a surface water nature. Therefore, I’m wondering if what may exist is a chain of Kettle Lakes that may be interconnected by either deep cut narrow gorges or flumes. The massive volumes of meltwater created by retreating glaciers could create a channel like connection between Kettle Lakes Considering the climate change and rise in groundwater level this could be hydrolocialy sustained through time. Flumes have a couple of distinct features, one since your looking at an exposed cavern the sides of the stream have a noticeable curve entrench side, and secondly they should have noticeable directional changes that are hard angles that follow the fracture pattern of the bedrock. See the photos from Hell’s Hollow Trail McConnell’s Mill SP GC15C0A… Could you submit a photo or Google Map Reference? Hope this helps…

Just a thought or two... I’m not sure if there are walking paths thru the nature area, but you may want them to head N of the highway and observe the river in its natural state and then bring them back to the lake area. The lake seems to me to have a double purpose, one for community water supply and the other flood control. You may want to build the EC on flood control. Explain to them the diversion channel and the tributaries that seemed to have been converted over into canals. Ask them w/o this what areas of town may be effected by a flooded. Is there nay history of flooding in this area prior to the construction of the dam? Is there a USGS Gauging Station nearby w/a web page reference? If so, what is the normal river or dam level at the time of their visit? I’ve noticed more and more USGS Gauge Station ECs popping up. This is a good way to learn the importance of these stations and flooding. You may also what to build this from a sedimentological standpoint. I noticed a number of meanders N of the dam. Perhaps a lesson on meander sediment deposition or stream flow might work.

I can understand obtaining a ”permit” if for nothing more than notification purposes, but to charged for a renewal??? I’d ask to see just what their regulations and policies are for that particular park, and have them show me the justification for the change. There are some issues w/geocaching along the Appalachian Trail on the other end of PA. Suddenly everyone was asked to pull his or her caches. So maybe this is a carry over along the lines of each Park making their own determinations or a change in administrators. Hey, if they don’t like caching I don’t have to go and play in their park. I wonder how much $$$ they may be charging for parking?

I haven’t had a chance to take my nephew, who actually lives in South Bend, out on this one yet. Perhaps this may lend itself to an idea or two: Blazer / Charger Confluence by T_Bird (GC13FAC) Indiana As for an environmentally friendly floatable object, any vegetation, leaf, reed or a blade of grass should do the trick. Here’s a SWAG of an Idea… Use some type of “line” like fishing line w/a prescribed length. Tie a float to the other end and calculate the time to the end of the line? Please make a note that they have to hold on to the other end. Just for grins and giggles, you may also have them do a volumetric test by timing the filling up of a container say gallons or liters /minute. This approach is popular w/springs. This way they can see both the speed and volume of the stream. These methods should be inexpensive enough to most folks.

Just a thought… Since the main event seems to me to be the change in stream flow, would a flow measurement be better? Is there an area upstream w/ greater flow rate than an area downstream from the “swallow holes”? Perhaps have the cacher establish a distance 1 above and the other below the "swallow holes". Throw in a floatable object stick or leaf. Time the event. Have the cacher submit the two flow rates and perhaps calculate the difference in those rates, thus illustrating the effect of the “swallow hole”.

The “Flooding” could also serve another purpose that of flood control. This might be designed as a flood retention mechanism. Say much like a “Dry Dam” or a Parking Lot Retention Pond. It’s purpose would be to hold back large flows and discharges in an attempt to regulate the surface flow. You may want to check w/MI DNR and see if there may also be a groundwater recharge benefit…

Here are a couple to add to the pot of ideas… That Building is Built of 40 Types of Ohio Stone by BiT (GC10PCH) ANCIENT MINE SITE by Geo Walker A Platinum Level Earthcache Master (GC14DFZ) Although entering the museum is not a requirement most visitors do…

Have you given any thought to asking the Park Manager? Perhaps he might have an idea or two for development?

http://www.nps.gov/gis/gps/ Geo-caching in the National Parks Geo-caching can include activities such as placing an item in a location for someone else to find or simply publishing coordinates of locations for others to find and describe the item at that location. Geo-caching activities on national park lands is prohibited, however some activities are permitted under special conditions as determined by the individual park. You are required to notify park headquarters if you are participating in this type of activity. http://www.nps.gov/policy/GPSguidance.pdf “The Policy” NPA’s policy greatest consistency is its inconsistency; it appears that this decision [geocaching] is truly based on a park by park basis. I think the “jackboot” approach that was taken in the AT area is the worst way of trying to resolve any issue. Therefore, if a dialogue is to take place would someone ask for some consistency and clarity on NPS and geocaching to what appears to be an arbitrary and capricious manor in making a decision! Knowing that what goes one in one park may/can affect all other parks within the system. Is NPS, so reliant on public donations monetary or sweat equity willing to risk the loss of the potential geocaching brings into the parks?

Like Pennsylvania, Ohio does not have a state rock, but on the other hand they do have a state gemstone. You may want to take a look at ANCIENT MINE SITE (GC14DFZ).

Would it be safe to assume both of you are local cachers? If so, you may want to post your intended efforts on a local forum thereby removing the duplication of effort. It seem to work here in the Pittsburgh area.

I would agree w/the above... The Park is Public Land, which means it’s owned by the “public" not one individual. Both cachers are I'm sure taxpaying members of the "public". Who exactly has the final say on an EC the Park, GSA or GS? They, in my eyes, seem to be two separate caches w/ two separate paths of approval. What are the chances that the geocache is under a ”permit” from the Park and could this “permit” either be not renewed, or rescinded by the Park based on this conflict? It seems to me that the Park should have the final say… BTW… What Park is this?

PA has a problem... http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/info/dcnrfaq/t....aspx#staterock What are Pennsylvania’s state rock, state mineral, and state fossil? Pennsylvania does not have a state rock or a state mineral. In 2002, a group of fifth-grade students took a proposal to the House of Representatives to have the mineral celestine named the state mineral. Celestine, which is strontium sulfate, was unknown until it was discovered in Pennsylvania by a group of German travelers in the 18th century. It has a beautiful sky-blue color that inspired its name. Perhaps it will be named the state mineral in the near future. We don’t know of any recent proposals to name a state rock. Many people have suggested that coal might be appropriate in recognition of its long and important role in shaping Pennsylvania’s economy. Others have suggested that diabase be designated the state rock because of its historical significance at the Civil War Battle of Gettysburg. Diabase is an igneous rock that formed in Pennsylvania during the Triassic and Jurassic Periods, about 190 million years ago. Cemetery and Seminary Ridges, the locations of the main Union and Confederate lines during the battle, formed the high ground of the battlefield because the underlying diabase is more resistant to erosion than the surrounding bedrock. Devils Den, the scene of some of the most intense fighting of the battle, is an outcrop of diabase, as is the strategically important Little Roundtop. I could try and create a sereis w/ coal. Things that come to mind: Surface Exposure GOB Piles [Waste Coal Pile] many are now being used as source material in power plants Coke Ovens if I can find a good one. Abandoned Mine Drainage. The lovely orange or milky white creeks we have through out this region.