crzycrzy

Thumbs up from me for the legend too... Love my blue !

Ahhh... the good ol' first cache... Then there's the first muggling... The first replacement... The second... The archiving... (Just kidding. CONGRATS !!! Welcome to the fun!)

There will always be issues but the question is, can you foil those darned bandits ? That is the question...

Actually, odds are you were receiving 'ghosting' kind of like what you saw on old tv sets where the picture seems to appear a little to the left or right of the picture. With the GPSr (r means receiver) it can happen when you are near mountains, or near large bodies of water. Funny story, once I was driving up a mountain and suddenly my legend told me I had gained 15,000 feet in altitude. (I was on a 5,600 range.) Same thing. It was simply receiving reflected signals confusing the GPS...

I believe ol' renegade is right. You should have received a confirmation email... Tell us more about your troubles...

Triangulation here... Wherever possible, I go about 50 feet in one direction, then another, then another... (Meaning from about 50 feet or so TOWARDS the cache area.) Then like magic, I come right up to the area it is hiding in.

Wow. Try ebay ?

This for the lexiconally challenged like me... 'Av a good day mate !

Holy moly ! You had over a hundred ticks ?

Sorry Team Nazgul My T-Wrecks already has laid claim... Looks like it's going to be a black 'she' Jeep.

Okay. Interesting enough debate. Good points all around. Go back to your lives citizens. There's nothing here to see.

That is a pretty cool idea actually, all things considered. You are clever ! P.S. To all of the raging angry folks out there, I thought you would be. It's okay. Just remember, use good logic, not mean words. By the way Totemlake, good response. I have fuel for thought on that one. True to your word, that is exactly where I gathered my statistics, so you have me on a red herring you devil you. I have actually seen some good points and ideas here. oh yes, and Jeremy, sorry if you feel like I was criticizing. I'm not. Just trying to provoke some thought. For those who wonder what I do, I am the Corporate Intelligence Manager/Strategist for the coporation at which I am employed. (Not that this makes any difference.)

Okay, but all in all, there isn't much approaching the topics I proposed. Everyone is okay with loudly proclaiming that it should be free, but my point here is to point out some reasons why maybe it shouldn't be free. Now I gave two logical reasons why it should not be, and I suppose it's fair for folks to pick at a word or two here and there and put words in my mouth, but I do find it fascinating that no one has really challenged the logic. Totemlake is right that it is a shame that a few people blow it for the vast majority. It is. But that's generally the case with most free use things. As far as statistics goes, you kind of build a straw man because you immediately make another assertion, so touchet ! I have no statistics, but neither do you. So we are both speaking of things as to which we do not possess actual hard facts. But if I had the actual stats, rest assured, I would have included them in the first place. But lack of viable statistics or not does not mean that the argument is not true or incorrect. Hell, I am not saying that anyone is right or wrong, I am interested in comments. Ce'Nedra, I feel your pain, but in a way, our entire community exists because of someone else's hard work and efforts and money spent. Maybe they make money on advertising maybe not, but once again, I digress. this wan't the question being asked. Go back to the top and hash out those points. I really want to know, "right or wrong" on those points. cachew nut, two things... 1) I like cashews too. 2) I am a republican, not a democrat. I believe in capitalism. I believe that everyone should pull their own weight. It's only fair. I also think that someone who builds a better mousetrap should be allowed to sell that. That's my point with this thread. So once again, what do you think of the original point of this thread? lowracer That is the most ingenious idea I ever heard of. You are a true capitalist at heart. JeepCachr , I hear ya. Jeremy made upgrades, but he had to pay for them and we didn't so what is fair about that? Just because someone spent money, therefore they must be doing okay, does not mean that we all have the right to use it, and that Jeremy must be doing okay. Just because Bill Gates is a billionaire does that mean we all deserve free software ? In that case, since you own a home, does that mean because you are obviously wealthy I should get to live in it? You aptly noted and rightly too that this would splinter the site, but would the people who really love the sport of geocaching go? I have to say I doubt it. P.S. I have a Jeep Wrangler, and I am a Jeep Nut. Gizmo & Brazin - Now there is a good point. Best one I have heard yet. Quick question though and something to think of. If they can't afford it, how do they pay for their GPS and gas ? Just a thought. But as I said, it is still the best point yet. Bug & Snake - If you find it, report back to the rest of us the ratio. I am definitely interested. Volvo Man You are thinking about how to fix the problems, but I believe (as everyone else so quickly pointed out) that the problems remain short of requiring users to actually step up to the plate. As for me, if I were to argue my own points, I would say, 1) It is possible that Jeremy is doing just great where he is at, and has managed to sell enough accessories, etc that charging a membership fee would be ludicrous. As a business owner, he might see the threat of other cache sites gaining in popularity, but that also may be negated by their utter inability to provide as good a service. Ultimately though, as an avid geocacher, if I heard of another site that had less downtime, better caches, fewer cache thieves, etc, but it cost me $20 per year, I would personally go there. I like the concept of volunteerism, but at the same time, it introduces many issues becoming increasingly problematic. Yes, it might reduce the number of users, but that might not be such a bad thing. There are other revenue generators, example corporate sponsorhip from Garmin and Magellan. They are natural partners in geocaching and I don't doubt they have already divvied up some dough. 2) Making caching cost money might actually cause enough people to shift towards other sites that GC.com might diminish in size and influence. This is doubtful though because it is the biggest and the best. If the national parks starting charging a $5 forest pass to enter would people stop going ? The answer, no. They have continued even though they do it today. The risk is that people would abandon geo-caching altogether. But I can't help but think that they would do that anyway ultimately. If it were a few dollars separating them, why not? I am certain of this though. Marginal cachers, or those intending to act in ways that make geo-caching less fun aren't going to spend money, only to be kicked out, and have to spend money again. I keep having trouble trying to make a logical argument against number two. I have no disrepect for people that can't afford a few bucks. I really don't. It's those that cause troubles intentionally that I am troubled by. Once banned, it's unlikely that they would return. It would get really expensive for them. A thought would be a multi tiered system where there was an initial fee, but the more someone participated, the less the next fee would be. Example, $20 per year to start, then after participating in over 50 caches, reduce the next by 10 and so on and so forth. Even making the fee nothing after 500 cache finds per year, and participating in 10 CITO events, or organizing one. Volunteers of course would be compensated accordingly by not having to pay a fee and perhaps even being paid for their services. (That would be a nice touch.) Okay, I am sure to be flamed for this post, but once again, use your noodle. Don't flame for flaming's sake, talk logic with me. I am enjoying this thread immensely. Now off on a 300 mile caching trek... (That I did not pay a penny for except for the GPS incidentally. Oh yes, and batteries and gas and all that...)

Wow. Interesting comments. Keep em coming.

A mandatory premium membership. (Just teasin.)

Former USMC 3rd Marine Air Wing, MCAS Tustin MALS-16, MAG-16 Desert storm era veteran. San Diego for boot camp. Irr !!!

Fair enough. What if Jeremy gets sick of it and decides to ultimately sell the company ? Will those rules apply to the new owner ? If not, (...and the answer I suspect would be no, after all, they never made any promise.) then what would stop them? I would be sad to see someone who worked so hard to build GC.com never get a chance to profit, and have his successor rake in the dough on Jeremy's hard work. Point well taken though Brian. It would require that Jeremy go back on his word. Any other thoughts on the points I made ?

Okay, everyone has a clever comment, it's the why I am interested in. Read what I posted and tell me it doesn't make sense at least. Please, I know everyone wants everything for free, I am just saying it might be a bad idea to leave it that way. Give some serious thought please.

Here goes nothing... Should geocaching be free ? (Now before you go immediately to flame mode, I ask you take time to consider my points and challenge them based on merits of logic and sense. I know that the readers of these forums are the more intelligent and eloquent variety because I frequent these forums. Let's really seriously talk about this, and not argue for the sake of arguing.) I use a great many varieties of services, and there are very few that I truly love and appreciate as much as geocaching. I love it that I have gone to amazing places all over the earth and found some of the most incredible things. I have been challenged to solve incredibly complex and difficult puzzles, and have been stupified by 1/1 caches. But there are some inherent difficulties that lately have been more and more troublesome in using it, and because of that, I would rather pay for the service and have a better service than leave it free and have it disintegrate under it's own weight. That said, I am going to make some points that I feel we as a community should discuss and seriously consider. 1) Rewards of entrepreneurialship. Someone (Jeremy) took the initiative to build a better mousetrap. If we work hard at our jobs, we expect someone will take notice and give us a raise. However, Groundspeak as a free service simply requires more and more $ to operate but for nothing. No-one really cares until the servers get slow or are overloaded. Then the complaints begin. I personally feel that GC.com should be allowed, no, even encouraged to find a reasonable fee that will a) Allow for a better and more efficient operation of the database and server structure. Allow for the people who have worked hard at creating and maintaining the site and it's content to reap the rewards of their hard work. 2) Discouraging haphazard use of Geocaching Lately, there have been many discussions centering around people abusing geocaching. Parks are beginning to step in to regulate what we are not regulating on our own because after all, everyone can join for free, and what do you lose if you get banned ? Nothing. I recommend that making paid membership mandatory, we can a) Discourage the abuse of geocaching.com for example, piratecaching, and organized muggling. Assist the parks dept. in controlling the placement of caches. c) Improve the quality of geocaching overall. (Cachers that pay to play are more serious than those who don't. They simply care more.) These are only my first two points, and there are more, but I am trying to encourage dialogue in this regard so I won't make it too long. What are your thoughts? My arguments are that less people would be willing to participate, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I personally feel that it is a crime that I haven't paid yet as much enjoyment as I have gained. What are your thoughts for or against this. Moderator, please feel free to pin it, it's something we should talk about. Give your honest comments, and no flaming. Your logic should carry the day, not your attitude.

Here goes nothing... Should geocaching be free ? (Now before you go immediately to flame mode, I ask you take time to consider my points and challenge them based on merits of logic and sense. I know that the readers of these forums are the more intelligent and eloquent variety because I frequent these forums. Let's really seriously talk about this, and not argue for the sake of arguing.) I use a great many varieties of services, and there are very few that I truly love and appreciate as much as geocaching. I love it that I have gone to amazing places all over the earth and found some of the most incredible things. I have been challenged to solve incredibly complex and difficult puzzles, and have been stupified by 1/1 caches. But there are some inherent difficulties that lately have been more and more troublesome in using it, and because of that, I would rather pay for the service and have a better service than leave it free and have it disintegrate under it's own weight. That said, I am going to make some points that I feel we as a community should discuss. 1) Rewards of entrepreneurialship.

Recently when I was vacationing in Mammoth, CA A family of bears climbed the tree right outside our vacation home. We invited them in and they brought their cubs. After a couple of cups of Joe, and a few good games of chess, they went off on their merry way. They were a real nice bunch, and they assisted me in understanding the finer points of running focus groups and the like. They also helped in understanding pigmentation modifications in Chameleon's skin cells and such. It was a hoot, and my 5 year old loved wrestling with the cubs. My suggestion, leave your 9mm home.

Funny isn't it, how whenever any activitity is involved, it quickly becomes a case of "how can I use the authority to make money?" First geocaching starts free... (Well, barring the cost of a GPSr) Then we make a premium membership for $30 (I am all for that for many reasons I will start on another thread.) Next it will cost $5 to place a cache just about anywhere. (You do the math, there are 96132 caches x $5 = half a million $ roughly, for an "annual" permit.) Before you know it, it will probably cost a fee to find the caches, and then what ? How much fun is the game the more government and other organizations devalue the playing of it. How much would it cost you to go hiking in the same park? Now, I know that there are some legitimate concerns such as damage to parks, increased traffic through parks, etc... But aren't the parks there for that purpose ? Otherwise there would be tract homes built there. At some point, we must recognize the incredulity of the fact that someone wants to charge money in order to utilize the "public park" system. Perhaps we can go further and create a geo-tax system where Geocachers placing caches in larger states with more park systems would pay more, or maybe a flat tax for all geo-cachers? We could all register with geocaching.gov ? Maybe we could get $5 back every year. (I am speaking foolishly, but you hopefully see the point.) It is ridiculous for me to see what I see happening. But perhaps not surprising.

Well, Pika ! Sorry, my little guy has no screen name yet... But here are his answers. If a travel bug could talk it would say, "Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz" If I were a travel bug, I would want to fly in an airplane with my dad because it's fun.

As for me, if I go to a cache site and it is apparently a ploy to lure geo-cachers, I am awfully "tempted" to muggle it, and then log it as a needs to be archived. Not that I ever would actually DO something like that... Just tempted of course.

Yup. Sure do agree with ya on that one.