Geodetic Team Challenge

[Guest JSB-1958]

...or should I have called this topic "Smart minds think alike?"

 

I had thought of a really unique place to put a cache. Got one all prepared and went out to place it. When I got there, I found a stake in the ground, with about eighteen inches still above the ground. Attached to the stake was a metal disc, about four inches in diameter, that had engraved on the disk "Geotetic Team Challenge" "Do Not Remove" "Now go to ..." It had some longitude and latitude coordinates listed. I put them into my etrex, and it is somewhere 25 miles southeast of there the marker was hidden. I plan to visit that site later today or tomorrow just to see what's there, I don't have time right now.

 

Does anyone know what this is or is about? My own internet searches have come up empty.

 

I didn't hide my cache there, at least yet, for fear that whatever this was might be attracting non-geocachers who would stumble on it by mistake. I do have the information sheet in the cache, but it really struck me as odd that some other orienteering type of activity had found my perfect spot first. I don't know how long the stake has been there, it is fairly well weathered, so I would guess at least a year or so.

[Guest Zenabi]

Was this by any chance near Melvern Lake?

 

Here's what I found. http://www.adventureteamchallenge.com/atc2001day1.html

[Guest zilla]

Be nice if they would clean up after themselves.. Maybe a friendly e-mail should be sent inquiring if they are indeed the club who placed the markers and why they didn't pick em up.. Kinda makes all the users of the outdoors look shabby when one group leaves a mess. Is this public land?? I also wonder what they were doing pioneering all over the country side in their 4WD's..

[Guest JSB-1958]

It's about 30-40 miles from Melvern lake, depending on what part of the lake you are talking about.

 

It may be part of that event, left over. When was this held?

 

It was about a 4 inch alumunim disk with coordinates etched in it.

[Guest Zenabi]

Looks like it was held at the end of May (2001).

 

Here's some info from the web page.

 

"Event 4: GPS Challenge

 

Goal: Locate and do an overlay rubbing (with paper and crayon) of the GPS disks dispersed throughout the confines of the area as quickly as possible and return to the start/finish line."[snip]

 

"Event 6: GPS Navigation

 

Goal: To find and follow GPS Waypoint GO TO Discs leading the teams to the campsite at Turkey point Campground on the Northern shore of Melvern Lake, Kansas." [snip]

 

"The teams were looking for geodetic markers, 4-inch aluminum disks that had their next GO TO GPS coordinates etched on them. When followed, the markers led the teams to their next campsite at Turkey Point campgrounds located at Melvern Lake, Kansas"

 

Does that sound like what you found?

 

 

[This message has been edited by Zenabi (edited 22 September 2001).]

[Guest Cape Cod Cache]

Too Cool !

A discussion has been going on about NGS benchmarks. They are US surveying markers or perhaps these were a more local variant http://forums.Groundspeak.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000869.html is the discussion ( pretty recent ) or take a look at the NGS site : http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_radius.prl

 

No idea where too look, as you didn't list the area where you found it...

 

"Be nice if they would clean up after themselves".... get real ! We leave stuff all over the place too ! (remember? )

 

Sounds like a fully government-sponsored virtual cache game system; GPS & NGS Benchmarks for free by Uncle Sam

[Guest Cape Cod Cache]

Too Cool !

A discussion has been going on about NGS benchmarks. They are US surveying markers or perhaps these were a more local variant http://forums.Groundspeak.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000869.html is the discussion ( pretty recent ) or take a look at the NGS site : http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_radius.prl

 

No idea where too look, as you didn't list the area where you found it...

 

"Be nice if they would clean up after themselves".... get real ! We leave stuff all over the place too ! (remember? )

 

Sounds like a fully government-sponsored virtual cache game system; GPS & NGS Benchmarks for free by Uncle Sam

[Guest jeremy]

rs check up on their geocaches. These seem to be discarded. There is a distinction here. The difference between theirs and a standard geocache is geocaching is a game in-progress and these seem to be left over and not retrieved after the event.

 

Jeremy

[Guest makaio]

We should refrain from passing judgment on these people (or anyone) until the facts are known.

 

After spending a few minutes reading through their website, I see that this is an annual event - next year running from May 27-31 2002. That said, it's possible that they plan on using these same markers for next years event. For all we know they may go out a week ahead of time and relocate them.

 

As an avid (and responsible) off-roader, I can say from experience that these 4WD/GPS challenges are alot of fun. Those we do don't involve GPS 'markers', rather we provide drivers with a course which simply consists of sets of coordinates and directions for which way to turn (N/S/E/W) upon reaching them. Occasionally, we plant a temporary geocache with bonus point items along the route.

 

The comment about "pioneering all over the country side" is ludcirous. We don't know if trails they use are designated OHV trails or not, or even if they are on public or private land. Given that the event was/is public in nature (various Land Rover clubs) and sponsored by some very prominent companies who's legal teams wouldn't allow them to be involved in illegal activites, I would venture to say everything they did was legal, but without facts, I wouldn't make harsh statements just because you're not an OHV enthusiast.

 

[This message has been edited by makaio (edited 22 September 2001).]

[Guest JSB-1958]

The marker was located in Anderson County, Kansas. I looked at the web page, and it does sound as if it may be one of the markers used in the adventure game near Melvern Lake, however part of it doesn't make sense. The events this described talk about going from one campsite to another at Melvern Lake, and finding as many discs as possible in a two hour time period. I do know where Melvern Lake is, I have been there. The disc I found would be about a 45 minute drive from the nearest point of Melvern Lake, and the coordinates that it mentioned would be located in Woodson County, which would be further from the lake still. If a person left Melvern lake and knew exactly where these discs were located, I don't think they could get rubbings from just these two and return to the lake within a two hour period. Doesn't seem like it would be much of a game if the winners had one rubbing, and second place had none at all.

 

The sounds of the challenge game sound as if the discs are placed around or at least within a 5-10 mile radius of the lake.

 

The disc does say "Do Not Remove" on it, so I don't want to ruin something for other people, any more than I would want my caches stolen or vandalized. I would think if someone was doing something as a one-day event, they wouldn't have used something as permanent as this appears to be designed to be. I still don't know what to make of it.

 

If it's a left-over from a game held in the past, I wish they would remove it. It is a heck of a nice place to put a cache

[Guest Cape Cod Cache]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jeremy:

Incorrect. Responsible geocachers check up on their geocaches. These seem to be discarded. There is a distinction here. The difference between theirs and a standard geocache is geocaching is a game in-progress and these seem to be left over and not retrieved after the event.

 

Jeremy

---

 

J, Take a deep breath and relax ! It was said in jest, ( note the at the end ) I keep an eye on my caches, stopped by one today in fact, (Big-W, 2831). It would be nice if this group had an e-mail left at the site or an explination note. I have the standard-issue description letter with 'go to geocaching.com' AND my own caching e-mail in my caches.

 

Perhaps they leave them up or move them around for practice. I do like the disks, been thinking along that line for a while, making a rubbing completes the idea. Anyway, I wouldn't mess with them, looks like one of their sponsors is a gun shop that sells Heckler&Koch guns.... ( <--- note the 'eek' )

[Guest Cape Cod Cache]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jeremy:

Incorrect. Responsible geocachers check up on their geocaches. These seem to be discarded. There is a distinction here. The difference between theirs and a standard geocache is geocaching is a game in-progress and these seem to be left over and not retrieved after the event.

 

Jeremy

---

 

J, Take a deep breath and relax ! It was said in jest, ( note the at the end ) I keep an eye on my caches, stopped by one today in fact, (Big-W, 2831). It would be nice if this group had an e-mail left at the site or an explination note. I have the standard-issue description letter with 'go to geocaching.com' AND my own caching e-mail in my caches.

 

Perhaps they leave them up or move them around for practice. I do like the disks, been thinking along that line for a while, making a rubbing completes the idea. Anyway, I wouldn't mess with them, looks like one of their sponsors is a gun shop that sells Heckler&Koch guns.... ( <--- note the 'eek' )

[Guest JSB-1958]

I'll just find out.

 

This certainly sounds like something that was used in the team challange event, though the distance from Melvern Lake makes me wonder.

 

I did a little internet looking up and found the administrative contact email address for "adventureteamchallenge.com" and sent an email to him, asking if they reuse these from event to event, or if it was OK to go ahead and remove it.

 

Other thoughts:

1. They couldn't be moved around and used in different locations, as the coordinates are etched on with with some sort of an engraving tool.

 

2. If I were affiliated with such an event, I wouldn't put them out once, and count on their being there from year to year. What if someone did remove one, and there would be no instruction of where to go next available. Where this us just attached to a stake driven in the ground, I would try to put them out right before the event, like that morning or a day or two before.

 

3. Maybe there is some other smaller local group that does similar activities having an event this weekend that I don't know about that doesn't have a web site that has patterened their discs after the better-known 'adventure team challenge' folks. The disc I found does appear to be hand made, i.e. hand cut with shears, hand lettered, etc.

 

I'll let everyone know what I hear from the adventure team challenge guy. Thanks for digging up the website for this activity, you must have used a different search engine or combination of search strings than I did, as my attempts were coming up with nothing.

[Guest zilla]

and turns led them to what was suppose to be a winch spot at a steep embankment.The Colorado truck equipped with ARB lockers made the obstacle look like a bump in the road as the vehicle climbed up and out of the stream bed with relative ease. The Houston Team not so equipped had to winch at this location, adding to their time and second place finish for this event."

 

As an avid mountainbiker and XC motorcycle racer I know just a little bit about responsible OHV use.. First rule of thumb is not to go into areas that are muddy and wet.. It doesn't exactly sound as if they are using the "county road " to have their competition.. I have seen too many times first hand the effects of irresponsible OHV use.. While you may be concientious of where you go most OHVer's are not.. Just my experience, nothing more.. Then again, if this is private land they can do what they want..

 

 

[This message has been edited by zilla (edited 23 September 2001).]

[Guest makaio]

Point taken, zilla, althogh here in the Pacific Northwest, the trails are *always* wet and muddy. We work with the Oregon Dept of Forestry on trail maintenance projects (water bars, eroison control, etc.) but dry trails do not exist.

 

Also, don't confuse "as quickly as possible" with fast. Quick for a trail built 4WD is still pretty slow. The general public equates offroading with what the autombile company's show in their commercials...someone hauling balls down a dirt road and going as fast as possible over bumps, etc. This couldn't be further fromthe truth. Rigs with 4.5:1-6.5:1 gearing ratios can't go fast even if they wanted to.