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Rant and Request for solutions: Junked caches


Guest Lord_Pall
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Guest Lord_Pall

Okay..

I'm new to geocaching.. As someone else posted, a Neocacher..

 

I just bought a magellan gps companion for my visor over the weekend..

 

I visited two caches in the Austin area..

 

The first cache i visited had:

A golf ball

A nail

A religious conversion business card

another religious business card

a religious button

A used red eraser

Some pencils

half a book of matches

A pez dispenser

A squeezy Fish

A twig.

 

I understand that the search is the interesting part. And until I started

reading about everyone else's experiences with plundering and inconsiderate

item removal, I wasn't really that irritated..

 

But the more i think about it, the more annoyed I get..

 

Someone spent the time to place a cache.. Not just for their own enjoyment,

but for someone else's joy too..

 

And they got taken advantage of..

 

So what I'm wondering/proposing.. Would it be useful to put

disclaimers/announcements in all cache listings about item exchanges?

 

Such as Cardinal rules like :

 

NO PENCILS

NO GOLFBALLS

NO GARBAGE

NO MATCHES

NO RELIGIOUS PARAPHENALIA

or even something as simple as :

DON'T PUT ANYTHING IN YOU WOULDNT LIKE TO GET YOURSELF! (LEAVE IT BETTER

THAN YOU FOUND IT)

 

Or would that merely encourage people to find the "best" caches?

 

I can think of two solutions to the problem..

 

The first is to ignore it and hope the players who plunder(Yeah I know the

term isnt absolutely correct, but i consider putting garbage into a cache

plundering) get bored and quit.

 

The second is a more positive route.. I'm tempted to carry around far more items than necessary..

 

And "rebuild" the cache with the new stuff.. Turn it from an empty/junked cache back into something

more positive..

 

The worry about repairing the cache is that it might encourage players to

plunder even more.. (But i might just be a cynic)

 

I dunno.. I'm new to the "sport" or whatever, and profoundly intrigued, but

at a loss as to solutions to these problems..

 

BTW.. Should i notify the owner of the "junked" cache?

 

On a more positive note, the second cache i found was very nice.. And in a great area too..

 

Lastly, to continue the above story... I took the squeezy fish, and left a bag of runes

(Computer game trinkets that were originally packaged with the first runs ofUltima Underworld 1, but got

pulled from subsequent printings)

 

-Dan

 

P.S. Any austin geocachers here?

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Guest Markwell

You're not the only one who feels that way. See this forum for a similar take on the subject.

 

BTW - I agree. Try to leave better stuff (not necessarily more expensive stuff) than you take, but don't overflow the cache. If the cache is overflowing - it's probably got some "junk" in it. Take the junk and leave really good stuff. If you leave something that looks like "junk" but has special meaning, maybe you should attach a small note indicating its meaning to you as a cacher.

 

If enough people do this, we should have a counter-effect on those who trade down.

 

Makes sense to me.

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Guest cache_ninja

1.not everyone can afford to buy fancy things

2.one's sense of what is "junk" is entirely subjective

3.as you said, some people are in this for the hunt, and to see a spot where someone chose to hide something, hopefully for a good reason(ie its nice there)...so they are placing it there for your joy indeed, to have fun finding it, and perhaps to see that place they chose to share. its really not about the stuff in the cache.

 

if you dont like what a particular person is putting in their caches, dont visit others they put out. if someone does somethign really lame, ie puts a used tissue in a cache or something, well, its just reflectson them, no big deal. maybe you'll have a good time finding it anyway..

 

i can see where it might be a big disappointment for little kids when they find a cache and there is nothing in it that they might like...

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Guest bunkerdave

The problem is not usually that people are putting junk in their OWN caches - it is rather that people who are finding the caches are taking the original good stuff and leaving junk in its place. Certainly there is room for subjectivity in what is "junk," but we all know inequity when we see it. I have started leaving a note in my caches requesting that people keep in mind that I would like everyone to have a PLEASANT experience when they open my cache(s), and ask that they trade items that will give them the same pleasure they had when they opened it. The next step might have to be direct e-mails, asking them to quit playing. Just joking. Even I'M not that rude. Not usually, anyway.

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Guest Lord_Pall

Actually Cache Ninja points out something that I might have missed or glossed over..

 

If the cache contents remained at a constant level based on what the original placer built it from.. Well then I don't really have an issue..

 

My problem isn't with people making caches with random things..

 

Its with people who leave a cache in worse condition than it started in.

 

So technically, You're right.. IT might have always been a baseline cache.. In which case, my cynicism got the better of me icon_smile.gif

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Guest Lord_Pall

Actually Cache Ninja points out something that I might have missed or glossed over..

 

If the cache contents remained at a constant level based on what the original placer built it from.. Well then I don't really have an issue..

 

My problem isn't with people making caches with random things..

 

Its with people who leave a cache in worse condition than it started in.

 

So technically, You're right.. IT might have always been a baseline cache.. In which case, my cynicism got the better of me icon_smile.gif

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Guest jbwcpa

quote:
Originally posted by Lord_Pall:

DON'T PUT ANYTHING IN YOU WOULDNT LIKE TO GET YOURSELF! (LEAVE IT BETTER

THAN YOU FOUND IT)

 

Lastly, to continue the above story... I took the squeezy fish, and left a bag of runes (Computer game trinkets that were originally packaged with the first runs ofUltima Underworld 1, but got pulled from subsequent printings)


 

I'm new to geocaching also. I have a hard time deciding what to take with me to put in a cache. I've left batteries (new, unopened)kid's toys and some stupid stuff (no twigs). My question is "Why would anyone want trinkets from a computer game?" Sounds like more junk to me.

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Guest Lord_Pall

The questions posed in the original post is more of a request for people to put a little more thought into what they leave in a cache..

 

Sure a bag of trinkets might seem like junk to you, but I'd say there's a much greater likeleyhood you'd be happier to get something unusual or unique (and junky), than a used pack of matches..

 

The funny thing about this discussion is that I don't believe the problem is the posters to the board.. We're preaching to the choir here..

 

I'm just wondering if there are any global solutions to the problem.. Or if im just a crackmonkey icon_smile.gif

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Guest Lord_Pall

The questions posed in the original post is more of a request for people to put a little more thought into what they leave in a cache..

 

Sure a bag of trinkets might seem like junk to you, but I'd say there's a much greater likeleyhood you'd be happier to get something unusual or unique (and junky), than a used pack of matches..

 

The funny thing about this discussion is that I don't believe the problem is the posters to the board.. We're preaching to the choir here..

 

I'm just wondering if there are any global solutions to the problem.. Or if im just a crackmonkey icon_smile.gif

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Guest jbwcpa

I agree. It's going to be a very subjective decision as to the value of items put in a cache. While the runes, for example, maybe worthless to me, they maybe valuable to the other 99% of the population. And I may put something in a cache that I like that may still be there 20 years from now. I think as others have said that there should be equity in trading, meaning I put something in the cache at least as valuable (to me) as I take out.

 

Sorry about the slam.

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Guest dustystar

quote:

I'm just wondering if there are any global solutions to the problem.. Or if im just a crackmonkey icon_smile.gif

 

[/b]


 

I think you are just a crackmonkey. When I put items in my cache, I try to think of the many kinds of people that are hunting the cache. Those that are earier tend to include items for children. Religious items might come in handy for those asking for devine guidence to be able to find their way back home after their batteries ran low. I don't always take an item when I find a cache.

 

Good Lord, Pall, widen your greedy world and don't live with your cap screwed on so tight!

 

[This message has been edited by dustystar (edited 09 August 2001).]

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Guest dustystar

quote:

I'm just wondering if there are any global solutions to the problem.. Or if im just a crackmonkey icon_smile.gif

 

[/b]


 

I think you are just a crackmonkey. When I put items in my cache, I try to think of the many kinds of people that are hunting the cache. Those that are earier tend to include items for children. Religious items might come in handy for those asking for devine guidence to be able to find their way back home after their batteries ran low. I don't always take an item when I find a cache.

 

Good Lord, Pall, widen your greedy world and don't live with your cap screwed on so tight!

 

[This message has been edited by dustystar (edited 09 August 2001).]

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Guest adventuretom

>people who are finding the good stuff and leaving junk in its place.

 

This is my problem and it has really turned me off on placing caches. I spent time, effort and money placing a nice themed cache. The theme was even listed on the page. There was some nice stuff in there. When I visited it two weeks later it had two very old golf balls, one old tennis ball and a fortune cookie fortune. I was pissed and I still am. Now people coming to find a themed cache are finding nothing but junk. I thought about fixing it, but why if it will just get filled with old golf balls again? If you are just in it for the hunt, find the cache, sign the log and move on. Stop taking items and leaving junk.

 

[This message has been edited by adventuretom (edited 09 August 2001).]

 

[This message has been edited by adventuretom (edited 09 August 2001).]

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Guest brokenwing

hrilled when they found something really cool in a cache? Why not try to preserve that feeling for everyone to follow?

 

Also, for my 2-year-old daughter, it is all about "treasure". To her, there is nothing else.

 

As for my family, we always bring a large selection of items with us when we geocache so we can make equitable trades. I?d say, we normally bring 30 or so items with us, all of varying value. We try hard to insure the cache is in better shape after we leave.

 

The reality of this is that there are "givers" and "takers" in life and in geocaching.

 

Can we change the situation? Probably not. This is an ethical issue. Those folks that trade unfairly probably know what they are doing is wrong. Either they will eventually "straighten up", or they just don't care. We are never going to change the "don't cares". I only hope by discussing this, those that are bothered by their consciences will come around.

 

thanks for listening. (Officially stepping off my soapbox now.)

 

brokenwing

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Guest CapnGadget

Agree in principal with the disappointed ones and I always try to leave something fun for the kids or unique (for example, a polished cross-section of a geode)...have even left a rawhide chew strip (still in its bag) for our canine geocachers. A trip to the dollar store and 20$ will keep you going for a long, long time as far as placing something for the kids. Cd-Roms or audio CD's are compact and if you don't play it anymore why not pass it along? I am guilty of placing a (new) tennis ball in one cache but I traded it for a little 3/4" superball so even-Steven..nails? sheesh I'd be a little miffed too unless it had a note tied onto it saying it had been retreived from the crash site of the Hindenburg or something..otherwise thats pretty lame.

CapnGadget

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Guest dustystar

Okay, so I stomped a little hard while on my soapbox. When I looked at the items in the cache listed by Lord Pall, I did not see a cheap unthinking cache. I saw items donated by very young geocachers, likely pushing their mental capacity of giving to the limit and encouraged by a parent. Just want to point out that the cache may not be what it was judged to be.

 

That said and knowing human nature all too well, the next post might be from the owner of the cache bragging how he lured people to swim rivers and cross mountains for a rusty nail!

 

Do you want people to rate their caches by value? I think that is going too far. Just seek the cache, trade equal or don't trade. Point taken.

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Guest Lord_Pall

Lemme try to bring this a little closer to something that might be helpful to everyone..

 

Do we think that "cache repairs" are appropriate, and should be carried out?

 

Or is that inappropriate?

 

What i'm referring to is carrying around enough random stuff to refill a cache.. not remove anything, just put more stuff in it so that it represents something a little nicer for everyone else who finds it..

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Guest T-storm

quote:
Originally posted by Lord_Pall:

Do we think that "cache repairs" are appropriate, and should be carried out?

What i'm referring to is carrying around enough random stuff to refill a cache.. not remove anything, just put more stuff in it so that it represents something a little nicer for everyone else who finds it..


 

Certainly it's appropriate! Expected of everyone? No.... But it makes the game better for all participants, and it makes you a generous, better person. I even think it is appropriate to remove obvious trash, like the cases where folks have found lovely items like chewed gum, used kleenex, etc from the cache. I'd be cautious in removals simply because as some have stated my junk may be fascinating to the next visitor. If more folks took this attitude, there would be more quality caches or caches that maintained quality over time. I certainly cannot see a problem with that. But then I have yet to find a cache listing that said, "I placed a completely non-descript pebble, an apple core, 2 green gooey kleenex, a rusty nail, and a 3.5" diskette with a cracked case and the metal flange torn off. Please place only similar items." When I do, I guess I'll have to leave the trash! icon_wink.gif

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Guest T-storm

quote:
Originally posted by Lord_Pall:

Do we think that "cache repairs" are appropriate, and should be carried out?

What i'm referring to is carrying around enough random stuff to refill a cache.. not remove anything, just put more stuff in it so that it represents something a little nicer for everyone else who finds it..


 

Certainly it's appropriate! Expected of everyone? No.... But it makes the game better for all participants, and it makes you a generous, better person. I even think it is appropriate to remove obvious trash, like the cases where folks have found lovely items like chewed gum, used kleenex, etc from the cache. I'd be cautious in removals simply because as some have stated my junk may be fascinating to the next visitor. If more folks took this attitude, there would be more quality caches or caches that maintained quality over time. I certainly cannot see a problem with that. But then I have yet to find a cache listing that said, "I placed a completely non-descript pebble, an apple core, 2 green gooey kleenex, a rusty nail, and a 3.5" diskette with a cracked case and the metal flange torn off. Please place only similar items." When I do, I guess I'll have to leave the trash! icon_wink.gif

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Guest jbwcpa

Everyone should be responsible enough to not put garbage in caches they find, even if it already contains garbage. But repariring the cache?? Shouldn't cache repair be the responsibility of the person hiding the cache? If you can't check on and repair or pull out a cache, maybe they shouldn't be placing caches.

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Guest jeremy

quote:
Originally posted by jbwcpa:

Shouldn't cache repair be the responsibility of the person hiding the cache? If you can't check on and repair or pull out a cache, maybe they shouldn't be placing caches.


 

You're right. It is their cache and they are responsible for it. However it would certainly be a nice thing to bring along some cache repair gear like duct tape along with you on hikes to repair caches that get some wear and tear.

 

If it was my cache I'd certainly appreciate it anyway.

 

Jeremy

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Guest PharoaH

quote:
Originally posted by adventuretom:

>When I visited it two weeks later it had two very old golf balls, one old tennis ball and a fortune cookie fortune. I was pissed and I still am.


 

I hate golf balls. I don't want your used golf balls any more than you want my used lawnmower sparkplug.

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Guest Ttepee

Junk is junk.... but by the same standards..if you don't like junk what makes you think the next person will? Till a person takes a stand in an establishe cache it will only continue to go downhill monetary value wise. Be it the cache owner or the next visitor.... one link in the chain is broken and all suffer.

 

Kids are such an important link in geocaching that I feel are too frequently ignored.

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Guest BX Tale

Is there a way to rank or rate a cache for the person seeking it kinda know what to bring. I am also still knew at this. I have been to certain caches and found some really stupid things (to me), so what I do is take nothing and leave something and hope that someone will replace it with something better. And if the next person do the same hopefully that cache will rebuild itself back up. There was one cache that I went to that had really nice things, since I really didn't know how nice it was I felt kinda stupid for not having something nice to leave. I did leave something anyway but I made it a point to go back and put something nice in that cache.(about the same value as the item I took) So now I carry a large varriety of stuff and various price range and different age group of stuff.

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Guest PharoaH

quote:
Originally posted by dwr50:

I think the prize should equal the difficulty level...just my opinion.


Caches here around Atlanta get visited very often. There was one cache I recently visited that had only 4 visitors in over a month. It was a difficult cache (5/4) and worth every penny of it's rating. My reward? Just being able to sign the log book. What a feeling!

 

With so many visits to local caches, I have seen the "cached out" caches before. You know what I'm talking about - the used golf balls that aren't even worth hitting with a softball bat. Someone even left a very old, obviously worn out coffee mug warmer in a cache. Any more, if I find something I want in a cache, it's a bonus. That's the way I look at it.

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Guest EyezOfTheWorld

quote:
Originally posted by Lord_Pall:

Someone spent the time to place a cache.. Not just for their own enjoyment,

but for someone else's joy too..

 

And they got taken advantage of..

 

So what I'm wondering/proposing.. Would it be useful to put

disclaimers/announcements in all cache listings about item exchanges?

 

Such as Cardinal rules like :

 

NO RELIGIOUS PARAPHENALIA


 

I'm all for putting in other decent items but in my opinion, the most valuable item that can EVER be left is an item that might help someone in their walk with or lead someone to Christ.

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Guest c.mathis

quote:
Originally posted by EyezOfTheWorld:

I'm all for putting in other decent items but in my opinion, the most valuable item that can EVER be left is an item that might help someone in their walk with or lead someone to Christ.

 


 

Oh, PLEASE!

 

Let's not start a, "my religion is better than your religion" thread.

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Guest brokenwing

quote:
Originally posted by c.mathis:

Oh, PLEASE!

 

Let's not start a, "my religion is better than your religion" thread.


 

I think the important point here is that what may be of little value to one individual, can be of great importance to others. I don't have a problem with people leaving religious tracks, business cards, etc. I do have a problem if they consider this a "trade" item. If you want to proselytize via a cache, that's OK, just don't make it part of the "trade".

 

Back on subject:

 

I don?t think anyone should be expected to completely refill a cache, just because it?s depleted. If you want to and can, great. Otherwise, I?d suggest just leave more than you take. If just a few folks would do that, a ?depleted? cache would quickly become quite viable again.

 

Thankfully, we have not seen real problems with caches in our area. Yes, there were some ?questionable items? and we have noticed some questionable trades in the logs, etc, but for the most part, these were not common. Also, I think many of those inequities were due to naiveté, inexperience, and excitement by neocachers. Many of them have already learned that if this sport is to continue, we all have to give more than we take.

 

Thanks,

brokenwing

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Guest PharoaH

If the cache owner was kind enough to fill a cache with goodies the first time, why should he/she be resposible for refilling it? Think about it. We (the GC community) depleted the thing, we should replenish it. Yea, it sucks to find nothing more useful than a used golf ball in a cache, but at least it's a cache to be found.

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Guest Sluggo

rd_Pall started this thread on a subject ?near and dear to my heart?. So I?ll put my $0.02 in.

 

1. Randomness is GOOD. - If everyone placed something materially inferior in every cache, by 2006 all the caches would be full of junk. (It?s sort of like electing a president, you know, Washington Jefferson, Adams.. then. And Bush, Clinton, Bush ? now.) (No I don?t want to discuss politics, so no flames please.) If everyone upgraded (made each cache materially superior), by 2006 all caches would be full of junk also, only it would be junk from Cartier?s.

 

2. Spirituality is GOOD. ? Leaving a spiritual gift for a cache hunter to find will expand your universe and possibly theirs. However, if you don?t tell someone what it means to you, by attaching a tag or something, the gift is missed. Like in the movie ?Dr. Strangelove when President Muffly says to the Soviet premier; ?But Dimetri, what good is a doomsday device if you don?t tell anyone about it?? (I digress.)

 

3. Value judgment is GOOD - Spiritual gifts come in inferior and superior also. A carved twig, left by a nine-year old girl whose hands were severely burned which was done as part of her therapy, is spiritually superior to a Bible tract purchased at the Baptist Book Store on Main Street for $5.00 each. (However a Bible tract about how a belief in Christ can help you recover from compulsive gambling, with a note attached saying; ?This helped me, if you need it, it can help you too? is priceless. IMHO

 

4. Information is GOOD. - Listing the original contents on the Cache Page can help the first few hunters know what to bring along to attempt an equitable trade.

 

5. Continued information is GOOD. ? Always post what you took and what you left. (Because of my concerns about the subject of this thread, I have started posting ?as found? and ?as left? pictures. (See GCEE2 ? Whitman Mission).

 

6. Carping, finger pointing, judging and bickering in the ?newly formed and suffering from growing pains?, Geocaching community is BAD. Discourse is healthy, it will make us better. Bickering is un-healthy, it will tear us apart.

 

Thanks for the bandwidth,

 

Sluggo

 

BTW ? I DO love this hobby.

 

[This message has been edited by Sluggo (edited 12 August 2001).]

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Guest Count de Cache

Went geocaching with some friends new to the activity this weekend and found two caches. Both contained a large amount of proselytizing religious crap which elicited many negative comments from my friends. This sort of stuff is totally inappropriate in geocaches. Not everyone is religious or spiritual and not everyone who is belongs to the same brand. When I find such crap in geocaches, I remove all of it, carry it out, and discard it. I consider this part of the "trash out" activity. Separate church and cache!

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Guest wildman

What I find interesting is this discussion about what is in a cache. I thought that this wasn't about treasure hunting. I thought that it was all about the hunt. Doesn't look that way from these posts. I've only found one cache. I left something cheap, and I took something that I'm sure the cacher had gotten for free. For me, the idea was a token, so that I could look at that worthless item and think, I got that at such and such a cache. This all sounds rather childish, IMHO.

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Guest EyezOfTheWorld

quote:
Originally posted by Count de Cache:

Went geocaching with some friends ... contained a large amount of proselytizing religious crap ... totally inappropriate in geocaches. Not everyone is religious or spiritual and not everyone who is belongs to the same brand. When I find such crap in geocaches, I remove all of it, carry it out, and discard it. I consider this part of the "trash out" activity. Separate church and cache!


 

I'm not a golfer, i hate golf, but if there was a golf ball inside, i wouldn't throw that away. It is very disheartening that you would throw away a Bible or other items pertaining to Christ. If possible, i plan on leaving a Bible (along with something else) at every cache i go to from now on. I'm not trying to convert anyone to a particular religion but would like to give someone the gift of the Gospel. If someone chooses to take that Bible and it changes their life, that's such an incredible thing... that Bible was definitely not trash, more like gold.

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Guest T-storm

quote:
Originally posted by Count de Cache:

Both contained a large amount of proselytizing religious crap ... This sort of stuff is totally inappropriate in geocaches.


I snipped the quote to save only the lines I wanted to respond to, see the original if you are concerned about context.

 

First, in the case of a cache placer, I think pretty much whatever they wish to fill it with is appropriate (though I'll admit I wouldn't be thrilled with wads of newspaper, pornography, alcohol, explosives-- too likely to break laws or hurt the activity). But if the cache placer filled a cache with items reflecting their religious beliefs, I'm fine with that. After all, no one has to take or read any of it. If someone does find it worthwhile, good for them.

 

quote:
Originally posted by Count de Cache:

When I find such crap in geocaches, I remove all of it, carry it out, and discard it. I consider this part of the "trash out" activity. Separate church and cache!


I wish you wouldn't. If you really think it's trash, notify the cache owner and let them decide what to do as a part of their maintenance. How far does the judgement of what is crap extend? For instance, I'm intending to place a large cache that is aimed for children. One of the items I intend to include would be the miniature New Testments like the Gideons have been known to hand out. I had one when I was a kid and was quite fond of it. I would hope that someone would not decide for me that it didn't belong in my cache and remove it. If uninterested, pass over it. If the cache is filled with a large percentage of items you really think are garbage, contact the cache owner.

 

T-storm

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Guest Count de Cache

e="2">Originally posted by EyezOfTheWorld:

I'm not a golfer, i hate golf, but if there was a golf ball inside, i wouldn't throw that away. It is very disheartening that you would throw away a Bible or other items pertaining to Christ. If possible, i plan on leaving a Bible (along with something else) at every cache i go to from now on. I'm not trying to convert anyone to a particular religion but would like to give someone the gift of the Gospel. If someone chooses to take that Bible and it changes their life, that's such an incredible thing... that Bible was definitely not trash, more like gold.


 

It is standard etiquette to abstain from foisting one's politics or religion off on strangers. Hence the ban on such topics at dinner parties, etc. and in most secular events. Not everyone recognizes Jesus is Christ, and most religions ignore him altogether (assuming he even existed). Your "logic" is badly flawed, since a golf ball is not connected with anything as controversial as religion or politics. I am simply saying that such items, along with food, explosives, and illegal materials should be banned from geocaches.

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Guest Peter Scholtz

Politics, religion and sex are generally excluded as an unwritten rule.

 

If you want to add religious stuff, then I guess we should add condoms for AIDS awareness? icon_wink.gif

 

------------------

Peter Scholtz

www.biometrics.co.za

 

[This message has been edited by Peter Scholtz (edited 14 August 2001).]

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Guest Peter Scholtz

Politics, religion and sex are generally excluded as an unwritten rule.

 

If you want to add religious stuff, then I guess we should add condoms for AIDS awareness? icon_wink.gif

 

------------------

Peter Scholtz

www.biometrics.co.za

 

[This message has been edited by Peter Scholtz (edited 14 August 2001).]

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Guest jeremy

I believe folks are worried that once we start seeing religious paraphernalia in caches, we'll start seeing them in all the caches, or groups will start placing them in every cache (like in hotel rooms).

 

At the moment I don't care either way, though if I started seeing them in all the caches I visited I would be pretty offended, especially since the Book can pretty much overcrowd most of the tupperware containers.

 

Besides, call me a cynic but I don't think there are less converted folks because folks have a limited access to bibles.

 

Jeremy

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Guest jeremy

Everyone has their own opinion. I doubt that the majority of people (or geocachers) feel that way.

 

I just think that people feel badgered everywhere else and don't want to walk to every cache to see it turned into a revival. Religious stuff is treated like Commercial stuff in this regard.

 

The Jesus Action Figure would be a welcome addition to any cache, however.

http://www.mcphee.com/products/higherpower/10746.html

 

Jeremy

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Guest Peter Scholtz

quote:
Originally posted by EyezOfTheWorld:

So something like the Bible that has saved MILLIONS of peoples lives (and souls) should be banned?


 

Ok, ok, you guys win. BUT it has to be those mini bibles, like smaller than a DAT tape.

 

------------------

Peter Scholtz

www.biometrics.co.za

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Guest Lord_Pall

Okay I know i shouldnt egg anyone on..

 

BUT!

 

The point of this is placement of things in a cache that instill a sense of happiness in the finder. Not about treasure.

Not about religion (Especially not about religion)

 

From reading the newer responses, Eyez has decided to turn this thread into some sort of verbal assault on nonbelievers.

 

Thats not the purpose of this thread (IMO), or even the purpose of this forum.

 

If you want to spread the word about christ or whatever, go do it. Don't latch onto an existing hobby or dynamic.

 

Its sort of lamprey missionary work. Its neither effective or appropriate, and will only frustrate the people who become involved.

 

However.. The earlier post about the miniature gideon bible hit on it quite nicely.

I think that sort of item strikes the perfect balance between religious and seculare items. It's not hellfire and damnation, its not a tom chick comic book..

 

Instead its a well thought out item that one person thought might bring a bit of joy to another person.

 

So..

 

Geocaching is for EVERYONE.. (Yeah even me, and I'm jewish)

 

Creating an atmosphere around the hobby of extremism(ANY KIND) is a bad thing.

 

Making people feel uncomfortable when they find a cache is a BAD THING.

 

If you want an evangelical cache, make one, and note it in the description.

 

If you want to leave a bible in a cache, do it. Someone might take it if they want to learn more.

 

But don't force your missionary work onto people who don't want to be involved. (Notably a cache placer)

 

Phew..

 

And if i offend someone with this post, I apologize, but this is sorta getting on my nerves now.. The discussion about turning geocaching into a positive experience for all has turned into some sort of religious debate and missionary work..

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Guest EyezOfTheWorld

he impression that i was out to assault nonbelievers. I'm not out to assault anyone, ever.

 

I just don't feel a Bible or religious items should be banned. Such an item might "bring a bit of joy to another person." If someone objects to seeing a Bible in a cache he or she can simply pass it over.

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Guest Mike_Teague

I'm an atheist.

 

I am not for banning bibles in caches (nobody is, really).. But then, I'm not for banning anything.. It's all a matter of taste.

 

I've always believed in freedom. If someone wants to promote his religion in a cache, then let him.. I'll take the bibles (I collect them) and other religous propaganda, and replace them with a calculator, thermometer, or compass..

 

Whatever the case, it's nothing to get worked up over..

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Guest jjderoy1

If i leave a non-commercial card with my email address and a note telling people to contact me if they want to talk..and my purpose is to be there for them just like other people were there for me..r u people gonna throw it away cause it might have "religious" overtones?

 

this is my first post since i have just registered on the site today .. and i have not yet gone on my first hunt .. but i would like to think that i could leave something like that along with other tokens from my town or state or region or whatever and not have others be "offended" at my gestures and throw my things away simply cause they did not like them. if i leave something from texas will it be tossed too by ya'll who don't like texans or are offended by the lone star state?

 

to me .. i have the perfect example .. i work at a company that caters lunch every day .. i used to work on weekends as part of my schedule .. on sat they brought in a most excellent french silk pie and there was enough to last all weekend for all people who had to work .. when i came to work on sun .. looking forward to another piece of most excellent pie .. i found it in the trash .. not just one piece .. but the whole pie .. turns out ONE person did not like his slice so he threw away the WHOLE pie .. am i the only one who would see a problem with that? isn't that a bit selfish?

 

just because you would have no use for it or because you do not like it does not mean that some one else would not find meaning in it and enjoy it so why throw them all away? you don't like it don't take it-read it-touch it.

 

DISCLAIMER: as i mentioned before i am not talking bout ads for any commercial service or group or business card .. merely things that have personal significance for me.

 

also i agree about leaving garbage and used paperproducts..that's just gross

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Last week, my sister and I found a cache that had been flooded out.. We took out several items made of paper that were ruined and starting to mildew and cleaned out the container and rebuilt it fresh with a new log book, pencil and a few other items. We both felt a little strange about tampering with someone's cache, but it seemed the only thing to do as responsible cachers. We also left a note on the cache site of what we'd done. I would never have considered removing something from a cache just because it didn't fit my ethical standards. If you find something so offense--take it as your trade and do what you want to with it. If you just take it because you don't like it---well, that's akin to ripping off a bumper sticker because you don't back the same candidate.

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Guest tedoca

Just my two cents.....

 

Proselytize:

1. To induce someone to convert to one's faith.

2. To recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause.

3. To recruit or convert esp. to a new faith, institution, or cause.

 

In the U.S. we enjoy freedom of religion, what some people don't seem to understand is that also includes freedom from religion.

 

I, for one, would not appreciate finding religious items in a cache any more than I would appreciate finding literature urging me to vote for a particular political candidate or an advertisement for a commercial establishment.

 

If I need Devine Intervention in my life I know where to get it, at Church. If I need information on a political candidate I'll look in the newspaper or listen to the radio. As for commercial advertising, we are constantly bombarded with that in nearly every waking moment of our lives. Out on the trail or in the woods is one of the very few places we can still go to get away from that and it's my bet that it won't be long before we start seeing signs like "This forest brought to you by AT&T"!

 

Also, I think any person who places religious items in a cache might be wise to consider that people of many faiths and beliefs are participating in this activity and your attempts to save one may just as easily serve to offend another.

 

It's my opinion that religious, political, and commercial advertising are inappropriate items to place in a cache.

 

 

[This message has been edited by tedoca (edited 16 August 2001).]

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Guest jjderoy1

the foundation documents of this country do not spell out any "right" to not be offended .. in fact the 1st ammendment pretty much means at some point you will be offended

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