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worldtraveler

Do we really need the "Survey Says?" forum

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This excerpt from the last "Survey Says?" topic

quote:

...And by the way, I really appreciate all those intelligent people that voted "no, it isn't too commercial" simply because they don't mind commercial caches. One day, maybe people will realize the difference between "Is this cache too commercial?" and "Are commercial caches ok?"...


got me to thinking that maybe we ignorant masses aren't sufficiently intelligent to answer such highly important and complicated questions as have been posed on that forum. So now's the time to pool our ignorance and answer this (potentially) final question:

Should the "Survey Says?" forum be eliminated, and should Jeremy only consult self-appointed authorities for opinions in the future?

 

Worldtraveler

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Maybe we should have monkeys decide which caches are worthy then? Or perhaps salamanders. Maybe Miss Cleo? Seriously though...

 

For a more objective polling, remove the sarcastic nature from the polling options.

 

The brutal truth is that you can't please everyone all the time. Posting silly biased polls won't help anything.

 

Apparently, I'm one of those self-appointed people who thinks they know too much.

 

______________________

Iron Chef

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quote:
Originally posted by Iron Chef:

...Posting silly biased polls won't help anything...

Iron Chef


 

Actually, I thought that perhaps it would help by showing the absurdity of self-authoritative assertions. The poll was intentionally sarcastic and completely one-sided to make a point.

 

When Jeremy creates a forum with the express purpose of soliciting opinions in order to help him make decisions on the status of caches and other issues, I believe he honestly wants ALL of our opinions. I further believe that pronouncements such as the one I referenced above or this one

quote:
...I believe that the debate started by this thread is whether or not this is a commercial cache - quite frankly I hardly think that that conclusion is debatable...

tend to discourage rather than encourage participation because they seem (IMO) to call into question the intelligence of people who would dare to express a different opinion. Kind of like my poll, don't you think? (You must answer "yes" if you're really smart.) icon_wink.gif

 

Worldtraveler

 

[This message was edited by worldtraveler on April 10, 2002 at 07:50 AM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by Iron Chef:

...Posting silly biased polls won't help anything...

Iron Chef


 

Actually, I thought that perhaps it would help by showing the absurdity of self-authoritative assertions. The poll was intentionally sarcastic and completely one-sided to make a point.

 

When Jeremy creates a forum with the express purpose of soliciting opinions in order to help him make decisions on the status of caches and other issues, I believe he honestly wants ALL of our opinions. I further believe that pronouncements such as the one I referenced above or this one

quote:
...I believe that the debate started by this thread is whether or not this is a commercial cache - quite frankly I hardly think that that conclusion is debatable...

tend to discourage rather than encourage participation because they seem (IMO) to call into question the intelligence of people who would dare to express a different opinion. Kind of like my poll, don't you think? (You must answer "yes" if you're really smart.) icon_wink.gif

 

Worldtraveler

 

[This message was edited by worldtraveler on April 10, 2002 at 07:50 AM.]

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I suppose I must be one of the dumb ones. You seem upset because people posted their opinions? From reading your first post here I thought you were inferring that Jeremy posted those comments. (If that was true, I could see where you might have a complaint.) As it is, I went and read the thread again and it was not Jeremy at all. It was just other cachers.

 

Why would someone voicing their opinion cause you to feel this way? Wrong or right, aren't they just as entitled to their opinion as you are?

 

You seem to be saying that those posts were not acceptable because they tried to limit the discussion. Aren't you trying to do the same thing they did? As I understand it, you seem to be saying that their posts are improper and should not be allowed. Do I misunderstand?

 

Sign me confused...

 

Scott / Brokenwing

http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

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The "Survey Says" topic is to bring to attention certain caches that are "on the fence," and ones which, unfortunately, I'm wrong no matter what side I choose. Which someone, eventually folks, has to take the responsibility and choose.

 

What I get from the folks who place these "on the fence" caches is either a pointer to some kind of precedent (i.e. This is the same as xx posted in the past, why can't I?) or some explanation on how it should be posted regardless of what I think. So in these cases, I say show it to the masses and let them decide. We're not in a courtroom and each cache is not "law," so precedence does not exist.

 

Jeremy

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

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quote:
Originally posted by Scott Thomason:

...You seem upset because people posted their opinions?...As I understand it, you seem to be saying that their posts are improper and should not be allowed. Do I misunderstand?

 

Sign me confused...

 

Scott / Brokenwing

http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

Speaking plainly and without sarcasm this time...

1. I DO think the "Survey Says?" forum is an excellent idea. I appreciate Jeremy's desire to have us voice opinions when he's "on the fence" on certain issues.

 

2. I am fully aware that the excepts I quoted were NOT from Jeremy, and it was NOT my intention to portray them as if they were. My apologies if I inadvertently misled anyone.

 

3. I think EVERYONE should be free to express their opinions on the issues put forth, to say, in effect, "This is my opinion on the topic."

 

4. I DON'T think it is right or appropriate to say, in effect, "This is my opinion on the topic, and anyone who has a different opinion is stupid/wrong." I think that doing so tends to squelch honest discussion and divert conversation from the intended topic.

 

5. In my opinion, the excerpts I quoted were examples of what I've just described:

quote:
...I really appreciate all those intelligent people that voted "no, it isn't too commercial"...One day, maybe people will realize the difference between "Is this cache too commercial?" and "Are commercial caches ok?"...
Is this not a sarcastic dig at the intelligence of people expressing a contrary opinion?
quote:
...I believe that the debate started by this thread is whether or not this is a commercial cache - quite frankly I hardly think that that conclusion is debatable...
Is this not an example of self-appointed authority? Jeremy had posed the question because, to him, it WAS debatable whether the cache was too commercial; but this person asserts it is NOT debatable.

 

As I said earlier, the poll was intentionally sarcastic and completely one-sided to make a point; I never intended for anyone to take it seriously or even to vote. I WAS hoping to get some opinions expressed, however, so thanks for giving yours. icon_biggrin.gif

 

(Edited because of typos. I shur mis spelchek!)

 

[This message was edited by worldtraveler on April 10, 2002 at 10:36 AM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by Scott Thomason:

...You seem upset because people posted their opinions?...As I understand it, you seem to be saying that their posts are improper and should not be allowed. Do I misunderstand?

 

Sign me confused...

 

Scott / Brokenwing

http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

Speaking plainly and without sarcasm this time...

1. I DO think the "Survey Says?" forum is an excellent idea. I appreciate Jeremy's desire to have us voice opinions when he's "on the fence" on certain issues.

 

2. I am fully aware that the excepts I quoted were NOT from Jeremy, and it was NOT my intention to portray them as if they were. My apologies if I inadvertently misled anyone.

 

3. I think EVERYONE should be free to express their opinions on the issues put forth, to say, in effect, "This is my opinion on the topic."

 

4. I DON'T think it is right or appropriate to say, in effect, "This is my opinion on the topic, and anyone who has a different opinion is stupid/wrong." I think that doing so tends to squelch honest discussion and divert conversation from the intended topic.

 

5. In my opinion, the excerpts I quoted were examples of what I've just described:

quote:
...I really appreciate all those intelligent people that voted "no, it isn't too commercial"...One day, maybe people will realize the difference between "Is this cache too commercial?" and "Are commercial caches ok?"...
Is this not a sarcastic dig at the intelligence of people expressing a contrary opinion?
quote:
...I believe that the debate started by this thread is whether or not this is a commercial cache - quite frankly I hardly think that that conclusion is debatable...
Is this not an example of self-appointed authority? Jeremy had posed the question because, to him, it WAS debatable whether the cache was too commercial; but this person asserts it is NOT debatable.

 

As I said earlier, the poll was intentionally sarcastic and completely one-sided to make a point; I never intended for anyone to take it seriously or even to vote. I WAS hoping to get some opinions expressed, however, so thanks for giving yours. icon_biggrin.gif

 

(Edited because of typos. I shur mis spelchek!)

 

[This message was edited by worldtraveler on April 10, 2002 at 10:36 AM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by worldtraveler:

...Kind of like my poll, don't you think? (You _must_ answer "yes" if you're really smart.) icon_wink.gif

 

Worldtraveler


 

No, I don't think that it is like your poll at all. But then again, you seem to have some devine intelligence that is beyond my mortal level of understanding. But, thanks again for telling me what I think, it makes my job a lot easier. icon_biggrin.gif

 

______________________

Iron Chef

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quote:
Originally posted by worldtraveler:

...Kind of like my poll, don't you think? (You _must_ answer "yes" if you're really smart.) icon_wink.gif

 

Worldtraveler


 

No, I don't think that it is like your poll at all. But then again, you seem to have some devine intelligence that is beyond my mortal level of understanding. But, thanks again for telling me what I think, it makes my job a lot easier. icon_biggrin.gif

 

______________________

Iron Chef

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Iron Chef,

No pretense of possessing any divine intelligence here. That statement was made with tongue firmly planted in cheek. Since there were no Instant Graemlins depicting that, I settled for the “winker” with the hopes it would convey the fact that the statement was made purely in jest. Sorry if I caused misunderstanding. icon_biggrin.gif

 

Worldtraveler

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Iron Chef,

No pretense of possessing any divine intelligence here. That statement was made with tongue firmly planted in cheek. Since there were no Instant Graemlins depicting that, I settled for the “winker” with the hopes it would convey the fact that the statement was made purely in jest. Sorry if I caused misunderstanding. icon_biggrin.gif

 

Worldtraveler

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icon_confused.gif

 

After reading this thread, I'm still not sure I understand the point of the original post or anything following it.

 

I'm trying to decide whether I'm dumb or if this thread is dumb.

 

rdw

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icon_confused.gif

 

After reading this thread, I'm still not sure I understand the point of the original post or anything following it.

 

I'm trying to decide whether I'm dumb or if this thread is dumb.

 

rdw

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quote:
Originally posted by rdw:

After reading this thread, I'm still not sure I understand the point of the original post or anything following it.


 

The original point: there was a survey asking whether or not a particular cache was "too commercial".

 

Some of the people answering the survey were instead answering the question "do you mind commercial caches?".

 

Someone complained on that thread that people were misinterpreting the question, that the question was supposed to be interpreted as "Does this qualify as a (banned by geocaching.com rules) commercial cache?", which is a question mostly of fact, rather than "Do you dislike commercial caches?", which is a question of opinion. Personally, I think that the phrasing of the question ("too commercial") admits either interpretation, but that's just me.

 

This brings us to the original post in this thread: worldtraveler sarcastically complained about the complaint, mostly on the basis that discussions of opinions are interesting, and that discouraging people from having those discussions, even if they aren't precisely addressing the original survey question, is the wrong thing to do.

 

Complaints about complaints about complaints is about as far down as I care to dig, so I will not offer an analysis of the other postings in this thread. You're on your own, rdw.

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