Really disappointed

[+MarsOnEarth]

I have spent a ton of time trying to use the builder and it just doesn't work. Yes I have a Vista 64 bit and a followed the threads that got the builder to open my file again. Now I have worked longer with my file nearly complete and there is some new error. I have gone back through the threads again and it is no help. Why put this out there as something that is ready to go when it simply isn't? Why not wait and put it out there when it does? I don't work in computers, software developement or anything anywhere near. A good 3/4 of what is in the threads I don't even begin to understand. Is there a date at which I can check back and download something that I can use without having to fix. Also, a call in help line rather than a really weak tutorial and forum pages as product support would be great too.

[+Tequila]

I found the Builder quite difficult when I first started but as I got more experience and knew the limitations etc., it actually works fairly well.

 

Please don't be offended, but a lack of computer knowledge, and programming skills in general, make it very difficult to be able to use the Builder. I have spent my entire life working with computers and I still find somethings challenging.

 

I strongly recommend you do two things. First, start very very simple. Don't try and boil the ocean with your first cartridge. Just write a simple one that does nothing more than display a message. As you get more comfortable with the Builder and the way things work, then you can add to your cartridge.

 

Second, save a separate copy of your .lua file every time you change something. That way, if you have messed up, you have an easy way of going back to the last working version.

 

As for the tutorial, I found it extremely helpful in understanding the various concepts etc. Go back and work your way through the tutorial and don't move on to the next chapter until you fully understand the current chapter. Do each of the exercises. It will make more sense as you progress slowly.

 

The Builder has its limitations but it does work as long as you don't make mistakes.

 

Hang in there. We all started where you are right now. And don't be afraid to ask questions.

[+MarsOnEarth]

First, thank you for the responce. Second, thank you for your patience. Mostly, I apologize for going off half cocked. It was, honestly, a result of really being excited about the whole idea of the thing and wanting to get it going and fast. No offence taken in regards to the lack of computing skills. I had some 30 years ago and due to everything since then being programed for me right out of the box they have really been neglected. So, this is where I am. I have an older version of my file in notes. Is there a way to revive my .lua file from old notes? Can i open and edit the current file in notes? If not I don't mind starting over and I will definitely save a new file everytime. I will also test as I go along in small bites (really bit of a scenario bigger than I could chew). Also, I am a really quick study so as I go along again, what type of keywords should I use to search for books so that I can begin to self educate as I work with the builder? Recommended reads if you can name some. Thanks again for your patience, there will be more needed as there will be more questions. Again, sorry for the previous vent, it was late and I was exhausted. Ireally do appreciate the help and the encouragement.

[+Touchstone]

I can certainly understand your pain

 

You can open up the .lua file in Notepad and try to work it out. I've found it helpful to find what line in the code is throwing the error (usually towards the end somewhere), by trying to open the Cartridge in the Builder and writing down the error message.

 

However, if it's a fairly small Cartridge with just a handful of Zones, Characters, and Items, I've been known to just start over with a clean slate. It's times like that, which really test your patience.

 

For future reference, on more lengthy Cartridges, I usually do LOTS of Saves and Publish to My Machine. This usually catches the more obvious errors before getting too deep in the process.

 

When all else fails, there are some very knowledgeable folks on the Forums (and I'm not one of them), and you can try posting your Cartridge as an attachment to a thread to see if someone can find what's causing the problem.

[+sTeamTraen]

My solution for working out where the error is in a cartridge file, is to make a copy, delete the bottom half of the file, then load it into the builder and see if you get the same error message (in which case your original error is still in there) or a different one. It usually doesn't take too many iterations to find the problem. (This is not a suggestion that the compiler's error handling is anything other than unacceptably clunky.)

[+tozainamboku]

Unlike the OP, I'm pretty programming savvy, so I've already been into the lua file to edit what the builder generates and to add author scripts. What I find more of an issue than the builder is the lack of documentation on writing scripts in lua. Most of the knowledge that seems to be presented either in this forum or on various 3rd party sites has come from people hacking builder code and reverse engineering it. I can't see why Groundspeak doesn't provide documentation on the Wherigo API so people could write lua scripts from scratch and avoid the awful builder GUI in the first place.

 

That said I understand the need for a builder for most people who may want to create there own cartridges. If you keep it simple the builder actually works pretty well. There are some areas where if you change a name of something (particularly a command) it doesn't seem to update all the uses of that name in the lua. This seems to be the main cause of the kind of error the OP is seeing (at least from my limited experience). I've also found where the builder assumes that some names (again commands) will be single words and generates bad lua if you enter something with a space in it. And I found the implementation of nested IF...THEN...ELSE a bit flaky. It doesn't always allow this, and sometimes if I move or delete actions I can get a nested construct that is perfectly good programming construct but which the builder can't parse. I then have edit the lua (or delete an entire script) to get it to load in the builder.

 

I'm somewhat disappointed that TPTB have decided that they aren't going to support the builder and fix these problems anymore. It's probably true that there are less than 200 users who regularly access this feature, so it does reach the threshold Groundspeak uses to decide what they will support . I'm hoping that the Earwigo web based build is opened up soon, perhaps this will answer my issues with the builder. I'm also hoping that Groundspeak provides an official Wherigo API to allow more custom functionality for those that want to go beyond the capabilities of a builder (and perhaps to let others write their own builders like sTeamTraen did with Earwigo).

[+sTeamTraen]

I'm hoping that the Earwigo web based build is opened up soon, perhaps this will answer my issues with the builder.

If you e-mail me through my profile, I will set you up with a user account on the current test version of Earwigo, which is feature-complete, just hosted on a not very good server.

 

I'm also hoping that Groundspeak provides an official Wherigo API to allow more custom functionality for those that want to go beyond the capabilities of a builder (and perhaps to let others write their own builders like sTeamTraen did with Earwigo).

Some API documentation would be useful for people who want to build cartridges with any builder, but give or take the general question of integrating lines of user-written Lua code in a transparent way (hard with the official builder, somewhat easier with Earwigo), there are few "builder" implications for/of the API. In writing Earwigo I have used no undocumented stuff from Groundspeak. All it does is use a more robust (in my opinion) way of holding the data and then generates the Lua file containing whatever the cartridge author specifies.

 

The difficulty with almost any builder solution - until you throw the kind of development team at it that only a company like Microsoft or Google could afford - is that the Wherigo platform is very rich. The other vaguely related gaming products which are mentioned in these forums from time to time have much simpler feature sets. The combination of the complexity of some of the Wherigo data structures, and the power of Lua, means that it's hard to make an intuitive, drag-and-drop interface which can handle all of the functionality.

[+Jam3s]

Well, I had the same problem... I had created the cartridge a couple times but like everyone else when I saved it, corrupt cartridge.

 

Now, I have a 32b machine and I am not even able to download the builder for some reason.

 

I get to 20% downloaded and it stops. I tried this on two different machines and neither is working.

Edited May 18, 2009 by Jam3s