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Two comments to make on this one: 1) I belive that if I read the guidleines correctly, a personal coin CAN be traded here (even if it's non-trackable), just not sold 2) For those who can't afford to do a coin - don't. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but I can't afford a new BMW right now so I'm not going to buy one. Not anybody's problem but my own. You CAN sell your untrackable personal coin WITH permisson from what I understand. One reason they are doing that is so they can approve the artwork beisfore you sell it (from what I was told). Great point! One of these days I will learn to think before I post! I see no problem with that policy. Groundspeak has been very easy to work with on getting coin designs approved at least for us they have. I don't see where it says you can sell your personal coin here with permission... the permission section: seems like it is only regarding posting a link to external sites, but NOT for the intention of selling a coin?!?! my posting that coin XXX is for sale at site YYY seems to violate the first sentence there. But if I want to say that coin xxx is for trade, and my trade list is here zzz, I can do that if I get permission from gc beforehand. I don't see how you can ever have a link to a coin selling site that isn't a solicitation for customers. I also do not see were there is mention of ANY exception to the ban of selling non-trackable coins of any kind, it doesn't say that you can even request permission to do it.

Two comments to make on this one: 1) I belive that if I read the guidleines correctly, a personal coin CAN be traded here (even if it's non-trackable), just not sold 2) For those who can't afford to do a coin - don't. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but I can't afford a new BMW right now so I'm not going to buy one. Not anybody's problem but my own. You CAN sell your untrackable personal coin WITH permisson from what I understand. One reason they are doing that is so they can approve the artwork beisfore you sell it (from what I was told). Great point! One of these days I will learn to think before I post! I see no problem with that policy. Groundspeak has been very easy to work with on getting coin designs approved at least for us they have.

Two comments to make on this one: 1) I belive that if I read the guidleines correctly, a personal coin CAN be traded here (even if it's non-trackable), just not sold 2) For those who can't afford to do a coin - don't. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but I can't afford a new BMW right now so I'm not going to buy one. Not anybody's problem but my own. You CAN sell your untrackable personal coin WITH permisson from what I understand. One reason they are doing that is so they can approve the artwork beisfore you sell it (from what I was told).

Two comments to make on this one: 1) I belive that if I read the guidleines correctly, a personal coin CAN be traded here (even if it's non-trackable), just not sold 2) For those who can't afford to do a coin - don't. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but I can't afford a new BMW right now so I'm not going to buy one. Not anybody's problem but my own. Let me rephrase that........Some people can't afford to go and buy 3,4,5 or more extra coins to be able to have coins for trade and new folks to the hobby have to start somewhere and the only way is to be able to buy coins since they are new and have no coins to begin with. Sorry, didn't mean to be taken the wrong way.

Two comments to make on this one: 1) I belive that if I read the guidleines correctly, a personal coin CAN be traded here (even if it's non-trackable), just not sold 2) For those who can't afford to do a coin - don't. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but I can't afford a new BMW right now so I'm not going to buy one. Not anybody's problem but my own.

The BMW got me to within 100m of the E in Elim, but I'm not sure it would be up to this challenge. It will definitely get me to Montagu, though . . .

aaawwww, c'mon Goofster, I'm sure that BMW would be great fun boulder-hopping and all ... . I'd love to come, though I probably won't be able to stay the night, as I have a house-sitting commitment. No 4x4, but a bakkie, if anybody needs camping supplies to be brought along.

Need a sub- catagory in vehicles for all the different makes of vehicles For example: AMC, VW, Ford, Chevy, BMW, and etc...

Word.... It's like buying a BMW with a 2 cylinder engine or a 2WD Hummer......come on get the upgrade and do it right! I do believe Colorado was the first State geocoin to be trackable on geocaching.com And fancy Icons might not have been an option back then. I for one feel very lucky that a local cacher put in all the work to make Colorado the first state to have a geocoin trackable on geocaching.com Maybe in 2006 we will get a Cooler icon I think the Colorado coin is great too. However, just 15 minutes on Photoshop and a picture of the state flag and, voila!, a great icon to match a great coin! This is the whining thread. Let's be sure to stay on topic! Everybody discard their rose colored glasses.

Word.... It's like buying a BMW with a 2 cylinder engine or a 2WD Hummer......come on get the upgrade and do it right! I do believe Colorado was the first State geocoin to be trackable on geocaching.com And fancy Icons might not have been an option back then. I for one feel very lucky that a local cacher put in all the work to make Colorado the first state to have a geocoin trackable on geocaching.com Maybe in 2006 we will get a Cooler icon You mean a Can "Cooler" ?

Word.... It's like buying a BMW with a 2 cylinder engine or a 2WD Hummer......come on get the upgrade and do it right! I do believe Colorado was the first State geocoin to be trackable on geocaching.com And fancy Icons might not have been an option back then. I for one feel very lucky that a local cacher put in all the work to make Colorado the first state to have a geocoin trackable on geocaching.com Maybe in 2006 we will get a Cooler icon

Word.... It's like buying a BMW with a 2 cylinder engine or a 2WD Hummer......come on get the upgrade and do it right!

Sounds good to me, but I want some say in it too since I am really the one that is wanting to start this. And if I did that he would have to go out and buy 4 new cars so he could have somewhere to install the other ones Ellyn Recommendations: Lotus Elise Porsche Boxster BMW Z4 Audi TT Good luck! I'll let the other posters return this thread to your original request. Sorry for the diversion!

Unfortunately, some people believe BMW stands for Break My Windows! I've had 2 company cars keyed all down one side in the last 3 years - jealousy. Fortunately, we've moved now. sorry to hear about your window, but glad to see you're not letting it get you down. We are better people and will rise above it.

You've got my sympathies - it's happened to me three times over the years, though not while caching, but don't let it ruin your day. It's just a fact of life these days and it's most probable that your life is considerably nicer than theirs - you go caching for a start. Adrian EDIT - all three times when I owned a BMW...

Yes, but I wouldn't dare treat one of those units the way I handle my etrex or 60. One of the applications of those models was for sale with BMW motorcycles where they'd be in an environment subject to considerable rain (incl. wind-driven) and vibration & shock. If Garmin can design a memory card slot and still maintain waterproofness in that environment then I don't see why it should be that hard for them to do so for their handhelds. Nor do I think their physical designers are less competent than those at Lowrance and Magellan who seem to have solved the problem and make models that are just as waterproof as Garmin's handhelds. I do agree with you on the cables. The original plug design on the 45/II/III/12/etc. models takes up considerable room inside the case and isn't as suitable for the physically smaller eTrex/eMap/Geko models. If anything, Garmin has gone out of their way to maintain cable interchangeability. The following models all use the eTrex-style connector: eMap, Garmin eTrex, eTrex Camo, eTrex Legend, eTrex Mariner, eTrex Summit, eTrex Venture, eTrex Vista, Geko 201, Geko 301 and GolfLogix Golf GPS while the original round plug is used by the: GPS II, GPS II+, GPS III, GPS III+, GPS III Pilot, GPS V, GPS V Deluxe, GPS 12CX, GPS 12MAP, GPS 12XL, GPS 45, GPS 45XL, GPS 48, GPSMAP 60C, GPSMAP 60CS, GPS 72, GPS 76, GPSMAP 76, GPSMAP 76C, GPSMAP 76CS, GPSMAP 76S, GPS 89, GPS 90, GPS 92, GPSMAP 176, GPSMAP 176C, GPSMAP 196, GPSMAP 295, StreetPilot GPS, StreetPilot GPS ColorMap, StreetPilot III, StreetPilot III Deluxe (of these, the 12, 38, and 40 use a slightly modified version for power cables due to the lack of an internal voltage regulator). That doesn't strike me as a company that's trying to arbitrarily increase the number of cable types.

This is the key. Don't place caches in places that are likely to cause public alarm. Our sport is trying to gain public acceptance and every time the police are called out because of a geocacher it will give legislators another reason to regulate our sport. Politicians love making laws. When election time comes they can say "I protected your children from (fill in the scourge)". Whether or not the laws are effective or fair is irrelevant. Personally I think profiling is nothing more than good police work. A carload of white teens cruising in a ghetto in a BMW? Good chance they're there to buy drugs. A pair of young Hispanics on the NJ Turnpike in a van with Fla plates and blacked out windows should raise the suspicion of a good police officer. I've seen enough of 80 year old Caucasian women, and dads with their families getting strip searched in an airport while 20 something, Arab looking males waltz past security to realize that the anti profiling rules are BS. That being said, the idea of codifying profiling as law really bothers me. In the so called land of the free I should be able to ride a swing in a public park. Now if a cop sees me, a 48 year old male, there and wants to check me out that's great. Its good police work. But if the law allows him to arrest me simply because I'm a 48 year old male, the libertarian in me finds that to be unconscionable.

Yeah, that's pretty sad for the librarian, who was typing that while at work, rushing, and those darn "M" states get me everytime!! I certainly don't mean to villify everyone who owns an SUV - but it's pretty well-known that I am hippy-esque liberal. I just wish more people would use common sense. I have a very close friend who bought a gigantic Surburban - seats 7 - and he has one child. He could plead he needss it for his construction job, but he has a giant truck for that... so, I don't see the point, except that it's a "status" thing. Which, hey, hippy or not, I am also a girl who likes the ocassional status symbol - so couldn't you just buy a BMW to tote around your one child? As for the people trapped down there without an SUV, the majority of the people trapped down there are too POOR for any reliable vehicle, it would seem. In terms of caching, I have found that my vehicle is woefully inadequate (absolutely NO ground clearance), so if I ever get a real job, I am thinking about a Baja - which is indeed an SUV in the truest sense of the word. But I at least would be toting the kayaks and the bikes and the hiking gear (and cache containers!) and going where my current car cannot take me.

I like my "big lumbering truck". In fact, I can put your tiny BMW in the back of it and not lose the fuel economy

I'm confused by the direction that your remark took. On one hand, you don't much care for virts and LCs. On the other, you don't want them to be seperated out from 'real' caches because some developement money will go to them. Certainly, you don't expect money to be only used in ways that you approve of. Should Jeremy shoot you an email when he is considering buying the wifey a new BMW, after all, her old one's only three years old. Make her wait. There are better things that should be done with your money. Golly, I wish I were able to read your letters to your Congressmen. I'm surprised that you are not ecstatic because eventually virts won't come up in your searches.

How much more time does it take? Many years back, when I was a consultant in good old Germany, I had a project for over a year down in Cologne. Every weekend I drove Cologne-Hamburg-Cologne. That's about 400 Km or 250 miles one way. And it's not 65 MHP interstate, it is Autobahn with enough "unlimited" sections to make it "fun". However, unless you drive at night time and risk to collide with a deer, the traffic will not allow you to keep the speed. I tried several times with a BMW 320i to stay as fast as possible, jumping lanes, passing right ... all the nerve wrecking stuff. And that car had no trouble reaching 220 Km/h (that's 137 MPH). Then I used my VW Passat Diesel for a change and just cruised at 120 Km/h (75 MPH). It makes a difference of about 15 to 20 minutes. On a Friday night one needs more than 4 hours for that tour anyway, so we are talking about a time difference of less than 10%. Needless to say, I kept cruising the Diesel and developed the attitude that no traffic jam can spoil my mood. Based on that experience, I bet you don't lose more than 10% of time with your drop to 55 MPH. 10% time for 25% fuel ... good deal! Jan

Except for First-To-Find prizes you're expected to trade even or up, so you'd have to leave the keys to BMW if you found the keys to a Lexus anyway.

Gas here in Belgium is about 1.12 Euro to the Liter. That is about 4.23/Gal. I stopped the at 100 Euro the other day, as I filled up my '95 Explorer. With the current exchange rate that equals about $123.00. I wish I could fill up for the prices you are complaining about. As it goes I use my Explorer when my wife goes geocaching with me, which is about half the time.(She is the primary driver.) I use my Mercedeces the other half of the time. We don't have many logging roads, but the farmers roads in between the fields are very muddy with the constant rain. I use both vehicals, and go where ever I want. The explorer is 4x4, and the car is not. I rarely use the 4 wheel drive on the Explorer prefering to use my brains to figure out how to get around, or through an obstical. The only advantage to the truck is the higher clearance. As far as people needing 4x4 for snowy mountain roads, I have been all through the Alps, in many diffrent countries. Most of the vehicals that I see are cars. There are a few Land Rovers, BMW SUVs on the road but those are the exception not the rule.

Is it possible to attract a British or Euro based Sponsor so we can start our own? It would be nice to have something like that over here for once! Anyone for a BMW Z3 race? Alternatively we could perhaps launch the new British Geocoin like this by sending them around for EU members only?

As someone who lives in a part of London where the press claim over 50% of new car registrations are Chelsea Tractors - I have to say the owners. I have no problem with any vehicle as long as it is used responsibly - but you have to ask what is going through the mind of some of these people - such a large vehicle is really not practicable for driving the children to school which is what most are used for round here - it is only a matter of time before a child is killed falling out of one as I have seen parents lifitng very small children to above head height to put them in the rear seats on the larger BMW and Mercedes 4x4s.