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quote:Originally posted by Markwell:They're not always like that. Some of them are in capped PVC tubes, some are watertowers. Make sure you download the detail sheet and print it off and read the descriptions they give (also make sure you convert from DDMMSS to DD MM.MMM). I've found three so far, just to pass the time. It's kinda fun while waiting for more caches to be placed - since I can't get out and hide on my lunch hour. I read this thread just before leaving the office, identified a target, and saw my first survey marker disc on the way home from work. It was on the side of a grain elevator in an older part of town. The details of the record showed the coordinates in a HDD:MM:SS format, and that they had been derived from topo maps. I was disappointed at first when I walked right up the marker and my Etrex said I still had 200 feet to go! Later, at home, looked closer at the report and saw that it said the coordinates were accurate to +/- 6 seconds. I crunched some numbers on this and found that a difference of 6 seconds means about 600 feet! Now I just need to find some markers with a higher degree of precision. The only problem is that most of the ones in my area are in restricted areas like airport runways, under radio towers, along the interstate, etc. This looks like a great thing to do between caches. BTW: I wouldn't worry about converting from one format to another. If other GPSRs are like my Etrex, you can just change the format of the receiver to suite the coordinates in the data record.

quote:Originally posted by Markwell:They're not always like that. Some of them are in capped PVC tubes, some are watertowers. Make sure you download the detail sheet and print it off and read the descriptions they give (also make sure you convert from DDMMSS to DD MM.MMM). I've found three so far, just to pass the time. It's kinda fun while waiting for more caches to be placed - since I can't get out and hide on my lunch hour. I read this thread just before leaving the office, identified a target, and saw my first survey marker disc on the way home from work. It was on the side of a grain elevator in an older part of town. The details of the record showed the coordinates in a HDD:MM:SS format, and that they had been derived from topo maps. I was disappointed at first when I walked right up the marker and my Etrex said I still had 200 feet to go! Later, at home, looked closer at the report and saw that it said the coordinates were accurate to +/- 6 seconds. I crunched some numbers on this and found that a difference of 6 seconds means about 600 feet! Now I just need to find some markers with a higher degree of precision. The only problem is that most of the ones in my area are in restricted areas like airport runways, under radio towers, along the interstate, etc. This looks like a great thing to do between caches. BTW: I wouldn't worry about converting from one format to another. If other GPSRs are like my Etrex, you can just change the format of the receiver to suite the coordinates in the data record.

quote:Originally posted by Kerry:There is probably a better term that describes 2 feet but it's certainly not accuracy and one certainly won't get that type of accuracy out of a $200 handheld. I think the word of that day was "lucky." Two discussions going on here: How did I get my GPS to read that accurately? Dumb luck. More precisely, I think there was a combination of errors that produced a remarkable result. I've never had that kind of accuracy before or since, so I can't vouch for the accuracy or precision of my unit. But it sure felt good! How did I get my GPS to read in "feet?" See earlier post - firmware automatically does that for me.

quote:Originally posted by Kerry:There is probably a better term that describes 2 feet but it's certainly not accuracy and one certainly won't get that type of accuracy out of a $200 handheld. I think the word of that day was "lucky." Two discussions going on here: How did I get my GPS to read that accurately? Dumb luck. More precisely, I think there was a combination of errors that produced a remarkable result. I've never had that kind of accuracy before or since, so I can't vouch for the accuracy or precision of my unit. But it sure felt good! How did I get my GPS to read in "feet?" See earlier post - firmware automatically does that for me.

nce. how does Markwell do it? Not sure but maybe being a little optimistic helps. Gee even the new Block IIR's (and there's only about 6? of them all up) have a signal in space error of about 0.75m and that's before the atmosphere gets hold of it. There is probably a better term that describes 2 feet but it's certainly not accuracy and one certainly won't get that type of accuracy out of a $200 handheld. Cheers, Kerry.

Does anyone know of a program that will import waypoints from a plain text file? I have about 200 lat/lon waypoints in a text file formatted like this: WPTNAME, NDD MM SS, WDD MM SS, DESCRIPTION,... I would like to suck these into a program that can load them onto my Garmin GPS. Mapsource will import PCX5 data -- but what I have is essentially a list. Mapsource can also export a text file, and I could format my list like that, but it has no provision to import a text file! I can format the list pretty much any way required. Any ideas? [This message has been edited by ekobres (edited 17 August 2001).] [This message has been edited by ekobres (edited 17 August 2001).]

Sounds like researching the topo info for the area of the cache would help. I am the worst person to talk about it, but tracking down as much information in advance a possible can really make caches a lot easier. I have been within 200 feet of a cache found a river between the cache and me. Had I bothered to grab a street map, and a topo map I could have had easy parking near the cache, and short walking distance. That said, we really could use a more descriptive terrain option. Something like how some movies will say "Rated PG-13 for brief nudity", we could have "Rated 1.5 for short steep hill". It is possible to do that now in the description, but it is completely subjective. Maybe have a disable checkbox? I think even just mentioning in the cache placement FAQ to keep this in mind when writing a description for a cache would be a big help. Dan

Pre for me too. Had an Eagle Accunav as my first unit. It would eat 6 AA batteries in about as many hours! As my name implies, I used it for keeping tabs on the home field when flying a sailplane. it was SO reassuring to know the exact mileage and be able to rough out a wind strength. I finally did a few cross-country flights with it, to date my longest was 76 miles. (the real pros can do over 1000 mile days in ideal conditions, and 200-300 mile days consistently)

I use Lithium batteries, Regular alkalines, and External Batteries. I have used Rechargable alks lot, but that was before my GPS days. I remember it saying on the Rayovac Renewal Battery packaging, that thay can last longer if not depleted. I would like to comeup with a battery holder that can clip onto my Etrex Vista or the 3plus, that can hold an extenal battery pack. Also the Vehicle Power adaptor cable can come in handy. I bought from Radio Shack, a cable that clips onto any 12 battery, and on the end of the Vehicle power adaptor cable. Just need a pocket to carry the battery in. One way i could do it, without voiding the warrenty on the Etrex Vista is to order a replacement battery door, and modify it to allow recarging of the internal batts. Would be nice if i could trickle charge the batts, without removing them from the GPS. One advantage of the low voltage Etrex Vista, is that somebody could come out with a 200 milliamp 3volt SolarCell that can clip onto the Vista. I do have the 3plus, a Vehicle power cable, a 12volt battery, and a cable to go between. Works pretty good, except one problem, if there is a break in the connection, the GPS will shutoff in 30 seconds. [This message has been edited by Geoffrey (edited 17 August 2001).]

The Magellan 315 says it comes programmed with coords for large cities around the world. I was hoping to be able to call up a city far away and have it goto and be able to say london is x miles that a way. but all I can see are cities on the east coast (I am in NY). is there something in it that lets you access only locations that are < 200 or some other number of miles away? thanks!

My 330 does the same thing at home, about 200 ft. off from where the map shows my house to be. I'm usually within 12 ft. of the geocaches I've found so I assume the error to be in the map.

quote:Originally posted by paulb:Well, I stumbled upon your world of hitech hide and seek. After hiking down to a beautiful dry ravine, we noticed a series of carved "cliff dwellings" chopped into the face of a canyon about 200 feet away from the end of the trail...curious, and amazed, we headed over to them, and discovered your cool fun. The guest book had been signed as recently as yesterday, and all items appeared in good order. I took some really great photos of the caves, and I'll try to get them posted somewhere. Great idea, it brought a beautiful hike into the age of communication. Rock on, We were the family that posted on the 5th paulb. We hid it with rocks and tried to keep it from view....guess we didn't do so well....hehehehe. Did you take the traveler??? or any of the other items? I emailed the owner of the cache and he is going out to take care of the cache. There was no container left, just baggies. Thanks for posting your find.....Aloha!

By Model -------- Magellan 315: 21 Garmin eTrex Legend: 20 Garmin III+: 19 Garmin Vista: 18 Garmin GPSMAP 76: 15 Garmin eTrex: 14 Garmin 12: 13 Lawrance Globalmap 100: 13 Magellan 330: 12 Garmin eTrex Venture: 8 Garmin 12XL: 5 Garmin eMap: 5 Garmin eTrex Summit: 4 Garmin 12MAP: 4 Garmin III: 2 Magellan 2000XL: 2 Eagle Accunavsport: 2 Magellan for HandSpring: 2 Lawrance Globalmap 12: 2 Garmin III Pilot: 1 Garmin GPS 76: 1 Garmin eTrex Mariner: 1 Garmin 48: 1 Garmin 45XL: 1 Magellan 320: 1 Magellan 330m: 1 Magellan 410: 1 Magellan 2000: 1 Lawrance Globalmap 200: 1 Lawrance Globalmap 212: 1 GeoDiscovery Geode: 1 Apelco/Ratheon GPS11: 1 Eagle Explorer: 1 Silva Multi Navigator: 1 By Brand -------- Garmin: 132 Magellan: 42 Lawrence: 17 Eagle: 3 Apelco/Ratheon: 1 Silva: 1 mcb

quote:Originally posted by Jebediah:I think that requirement isn't based on decomposition rates but rather on the extremely limited amount of dry accessible soil in certain sensitive canyon areas. Imagine what would happen if everybody defecated in the same sand bars and pull-outs hundreds of times a season. It's a combination of visitor volume and the environment's limited ability to absorb the amount of waste being generated. Desert decomposition rates are so slow that some archaeologists have studied 900 year old sun-baked feces to bolster the claim that the ancestoral Pueblos (Anasazi)practiced ritual cannibalism. Back on topic: For most environments, Leave No Trace says: "Deposit solid human waste in catholes dug 6 to 8 inches deep at least 200 feet from water, camp, and trails. Cover and disguise the cathole when finished." (There are different recommendations for western river corridors and desert canyon country.) Since the Bureau of Land Management, National Park Service, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and U.S. Forest Service are all federal partners in the LNT programs, it strikes me that Mary Pat's initial post was more anti-geocaching than anti-digging. In no way would I ever condone the burying of geocaches, but the bold assertion, "Digging or disturbing land in National Forests is illegal!" just doesn't make sense. Her further assertion that my observation regarding standard backcountry sanitation was a failure of logic, her continued threats of arrest and fines, along with her failure to address the specifics of the law only confirms my belief that she is the type of lower level government employee that is best avoided; "Yes, Sir", "No, Ma'am" and move along without questioning their authority. I'm sorry I ever jumped into this thread. In the future I'll limit myself to discussions with policy makers and managers. Cephas Hawke Bedford, NH [This message has been edited by CaptHawke (edited 08 August 2001).]

My ancient Garmin GPS 38 is on its death bed and I've got 200 waypoints stored in it. I'd like to move them to my PC, but I don't have a cable for it and I really don't want to spend $35-40 on a cable I'll only use once. Is there anyone in San Diego with a suitable cable that can help me?

read the Aug 5th log here http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=200

"I bought the Mag330x this past week and love it. I wasn't going to drop a load of bills on a Garmin and then still have to buy a $100 cd-rom! " I agree with that 100%. Charging another 100 bucks for the map after charging $200-$300 for the receiver SUCKS! Garmin could, at least, offer a substantial discount on the software if purchased with the unit. I would buy my own for $45 but for $100 I'll look for someone from whom I can borrow or even rent the software. I'll give the Magellan 330 another look.

I live in phoenix AZ and have about 2 bills to spend on a gps don't think i'll spend too much time in heavy cover......pls throw me some ideas on good GPSR's for about 200.00 thanks!

I'm with brokenwing!I've got the top of the line eTrex(Vista) & with all it's bells & whistles, it is terrible in the woods.If you aniicipate being under any tree cover in your cache adventures, my opinion would be to stay away from the eTrex.I know folks who have gotten rid of theirs or unsuccessfully tried to.At least up here in the Northeast.With all the comments regarding this issue, I almost think geographical location has something to do with it.A lot of folks say they have no problem at all but up here in New York, there for sure is a problem.Go for something with a good antenna.I count on the Garmin III Plus.Does the job no matter what conditions I'm in & I've been in some heavy woods looking for caches.I've also got the MAP76,(about $400.00 with the external antenna),and that doesn't perform as well as the III Plus in the woods.The III Plus is about $279.00.I have had no experience with Magellans, but if I were you, and had a $200.00 limit, I would look at the Mags. that others have mentioned.They have the antenna & from what I've read, some nice features.Never been to AZ.,so don't know what the foliage is like down there.If you don't have any nasty overhead stuff where caches are placed, eTrex might work.But don't do like I did & find out after you buy cuz the unit might end up giving you some frustration.Hope this helps & have fun. .--Gimpy-- ------------------ Gary "Gimpy" Strong Rochester,NY

I'm with brokenwing!I've got the top of the line eTrex(Vista) & with all it's bells & whistles, it is terrible in the woods.If you aniicipate being under any tree cover in your cache adventures, my opinion would be to stay away from the eTrex.I know folks who have gotten rid of theirs or unsuccessfully tried to.At least up here in the Northeast.With all the comments regarding this issue, I almost think geographical location has something to do with it.A lot of folks say they have no problem at all but up here in New York, there for sure is a problem.Go for something with a good antenna.I count on the Garmin III Plus.Does the job no matter what conditions I'm in & I've been in some heavy woods looking for caches.I've also got the MAP76,(about $400.00 with the external antenna),and that doesn't perform as well as the III Plus in the woods.The III Plus is about $279.00.I have had no experience with Magellans, but if I were you, and had a $200.00 limit, I would look at the Mags. that others have mentioned.They have the antenna & from what I've read, some nice features.Never been to AZ.,so don't know what the foliage is like down there.If you don't have any nasty overhead stuff where caches are placed, eTrex might work.But don't do like I did & find out after you buy cuz the unit might end up giving you some frustration.Hope this helps & have fun. .--Gimpy-- ------------------ Gary "Gimpy" Strong Rochester,NY

Thanks for your replies. I was actually making sure that I was holding it vertically. The walk from where I parked to the woods was about 200 yards across an open field where I had at least 10 sats. "pinging" away. I have spent at least an hour on hold with Garmin and have yet to speak to a real person. May just take it back to the store. This is really beginning to rot.

The one cache I placed is about a 5 minute drive from where I live. It is in a busy park and I try and check it once a week and leave a log report so hunters know it is still there. The other cache I placed I have checked it twice as it is about 200 km away. But I will check it this weekend.

Ductile iron pipe or clay pipe would be an other option. It comes in many sizes. I am working on a project now where we are excavating old water pipes in a sea side city. The clay pipes look as good as the day they were buried(1800's). The cast iron pipes are rusty but intact (early 1900's) These pipes are in wet areas and the temp above ground goes from -40 to +100, not in 1 day mind you but we are still talking 100 and 200 years not bad.

Looks like your working the 'Over The River..' cache id=1177 If the difference is 20-30 miles, it can't be a datum error. The co-ordinates you posted appear to be in decimal minutes format (dd mm.mmm), but neither topozone nor jeeep accept that format. Both topozone and jeeep will accept coords in either degree/minute/second or in decimal degrees, but decimal minutes are not an acceptable input. So: >N33 2.306 W096 39.855 converts to decimal degrees: 2.306/60=.03843 so N33.03843 39.855/60=0.66425 so W-096.66425 (remember West = negative) Entering these co-ordinates into topozone gives the same location as the cache map. One final note: The spot displayed on topozone in this manner can be off by as much as 200 feet. Even clicking on the link to topozone from the cache page, which will use the same coordinates as calculated above, will be slightly off. The reason is that the coordinates displayed on the geocaching.com cache page are using WGS84 datum, and topozone uses the USGS standard of NAD27. There are a number of utilities, including your GPSR itself, that will convert between WGS84 and NAD27. My favorite is to use easygps (free). [This message has been edited by arffer (edited 29 July 2001).]

I have updated my little graph, and unfortunately, I still can't figure out how to paste it here for all to view. Just some "gee whiz" things for all of you to ponder: 1. The last time we had a single-digit cache placement week was the week of May 20th. 2. We have placed 20 or more caches in a week FIVE times. 3. Since the last time there were NO caches placed in a week, (the first week of February) we have averaged 11.16 caches per week. 4. The week of July 8 - 15 (Rendezvous Week) there were 30 caches placed. No small thanks to Junkyard Dog, who I know placed at least 4 nice ones that week. 5. It took us 8 months to break the 100 barrier, then 6 weeks to get to 200. If we stay on pace, we will hit 300 by next weekend, and that will have taken 5 weeks. 6. There are 286 caches in Utah as of this writing on 7/28/01. 7. We are SMOKING everyone with one cache per every 7,808 people in our state. The next closest is Oregon with one cache per 16,292 people. 8. We have a 15% average weekly growth rate since the first cache was placed in Utah by Leaper64 last September. 9. The curve is looking strikingly similar to a bacteria population chart, that is, it appears to be exponential, kind of. Let's hope it tapers off somewhere along the way, or we'll be tripping over each other's caches. 10. If I had to pick a number, 20 seems to be the typical week for us. I think that on my BEST week hunting, I only managed to bag 18, so I don't think I will try to find all the Utah caches. Anyway, there is the data, FWIW.