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quote:Originally posted by 300mag:...everyone should stop this crying...so get out there and start geocaching not geocrying. Ouch! That hurt, 300Mag. I have a sweet Remington bolt rifle chambered in 300 mag. From one gun guy to another, you hurt me to the bone, dog. I'd love to talk handguns with you, but since you live in Canada I guess that would be a one-sided conversation. All in good fun. Take care, Rob [This message has been edited by cache_only (edited 08 June 2001).]

quote:Originally posted by 300mag:...everyone should stop this crying...so get out there and start geocaching not geocrying. Ouch! That hurt, 300Mag. I have a sweet Remington bolt rifle chambered in 300 mag. From one gun guy to another, you hurt me to the bone, dog. I'd love to talk handguns with you, but since you live in Canada I guess that would be a one-sided conversation. All in good fun. Take care, Rob [This message has been edited by cache_only (edited 08 June 2001).]

quote:Originally posted by 300mag:...everyone should stop this crying...so get out there and start geocaching not geocrying. Ouch! That hurt, 300Mag. I have a sweet Remington bolt rifle chambered in 300 mag. From one gun guy to another, you hurt me to the bone, dog. I'd love to talk handguns with you, but since you live in Canada I guess that would be a one-sided conversation. All in good fun. Take care, Rob [This message has been edited by cache_only (edited 08 June 2001).]

I recommend a net search, then go to a brick & mortar store. Go on a slow business evening and see if there is a person that will sit down and talk and take you out to the parking lot for a quick test run. I did that a couple years ago when I sold for a 'discount marine store'. I sold a ton of them, just by showing how to use a unit, and would help a customer if he had a problem as well. my $0.02

Could all of you SE Queensland Cache's chuck your emails and ICQ numbers here it weould be good to get to talk to some of you one on one and get some information. ICQ - 45447650 MSN Email - gordon_mcgregor@hotmail.com Cheers ------------------ The Random Acts of Idiocy

ng every day that do not visit the lists and forums, where i would guess, the more outspoken dissatisfied few tend to like to hear themselves talk, but as such your assertion that "The sport is going to self-destruct if things carry on" appears to be a huge over-reaction and a desperate attempt to persuade people to agree with your agenda. re: Dave Ulmer, i dont understand your problem, or know what you want..apparently he hid the first cache, came up with the idea, and promptly disappeared until now (his reappearance has been marked by a great deal of immaturity in my opinion). What else can be said except one line? What has he done? Your assertion that "there such an overt attempt to keep him in such a diminutive capacity" is an inflammatory statement largely without merit. What capactity do you suggest? He made it known he was no longer interested in geocaching way at the beginning. Anyway, I don't care about Dave Ulmer and would rather let him speak for himself. It really seems like any time a certain group of people on here don't get their ideas _immediately_ adressed or institued by Jeremy, within a day or two, there emerges this huge big deal. I don't understand this sense of entitlement I am seeing...people just keep posting contentious assertions in order to somehow make it seem like there are all these "big problems" that the "majority" of geocachers are concerned with when in reality its _their_ problem that they are concerned with. All of this seems like a very selfish attempt just to keep the dissent alive somehow.

this is really silly. a few comments: i apologize about their nature, but the way you chose to post this deserves a reply as such in my opinion. you or one specific other person has continously posting on the forums and lists regarding the "urgent" need for an "official geocaching organization", there has been little or no response and at this point I don't know why you are persisting other than as a desperate attempt to in some way force your ideas.. i think a coucil would inevitably result in more bickering and whining by the people who are doing it in the first place-afteral they are going to be the only ones who would want to be on such a council in order to, well, run things their way. those being the same people who are unhapppy that _their_ way isn't immediately implemented on someone else's url. indeed there seem to be a _handful_ of people dissastisfied by the url/the way its run and who will only be happy if it somehow included their ideas/their way of running things/their view of geocaching etc..i dont know why people seem to think there is this one-man conspiracy going on, most realize jeremy has good intentions. there are hundreds of people seeking/hiding every day that do not visit the lists and forums, where i would guess, the more outspoken dissatisfied few tend to like to hear themselves talk, but as such your assertion that "The sport is going to self-destruct if things carry on" appears to be a huge over-reaction and a desperate attempt to persuade people to agree with your agenda. re: Dave Ulmer, i dont understand your problem, or know what you want..apparently he hid the first cache, came up with the idea, and promptly disappeared until now (his reappearance has been marked by a great deal of immaturity in my opinion). What else can be said except one line? What has he done? Your assertion that "there such an overt attempt to keep him in such a diminutive capacity" is an inflammatory statement largely without merit. What capactity do you suggest? He made it known he was no longer interested in geocaching way at the beginning. Anyway, I don't care about Dave Ulmer and would rather let him speak for himself. It really seems like any time a certain group of people on here don't get their ideas _immediately_ adressed or institued by Jeremy, within a day or two, there emerges this huge big deal. I don't understand this sense of entitlement I am seeing...people just keep posting contentious assertions in order to somehow make it seem like there are all these "big problems" that the "majority" of geocachers are concerned with when in reality its _their_ problem that they are concerned with. All of this seems like a very selfish attempt just to keep the dissent alive somehow.

Thought everyone would like to know that geocaching was in Yahoo! Internet Life magazine in the "talk of the net column" (Jul. 2001, p. 74.) I couldn't find a link to the story online. It was an interesting read as the article describes geocaching and follows Cache_nInjA around the city. Pretty good coverage and a mention of geocaching.com. Can Cache_nInjA sue them for defamation of character for the "thrift shop getup" comment?

Thought everyone would like to know that geocaching was in Yahoo! Internet Life magazine in the "talk of the net column" (Jul. 2001, p. 74.) I couldn't find a link to the story online. It was an interesting read as the article describes geocaching and follows Cache_nInjA around the city. Pretty good coverage and a mention of geocaching.com. Can Cache_nInjA sue them for defamation of character for the "thrift shop getup" comment?

I got my GPSMAP 76 on Friday!!! So far I really love it. The 8 megs of memory are a definte improvement over the III+. The reception on the unit seems to be very good. In addition the Map 76 acquires birds pretty quickly. I was surprised. I haven't played with WAAS too much yet, but it seems to be able to pull in a differential lock just fine. I have noticed that I'm having trouble getting the MAP 76 to talk to 3rd party software though. I don't have any trouble using it with Garmin's Topo, but it doesn't seem to communicate correctly with the Topografix program EasyGPS or with Delorme's Street Atlas 7.0. I had coordinate the transfer of data to and from those software packages with an eMap. I was using a III+ before and it is comparable, but there are some definite differences. For the most part things have improved. I really like the celestial additions. Those are very nice. I can quickly see where the sun and moon are located in the sky. I also like the tide tables. I live close enough to the ocean to make that a handy feature. I do miss a few things that I could do with my III+ though. First of all, yes, the waypoint names are now 10 characters long instead of 6. However, the III+ had a description line that quite long. That whole entry appears to be gone altogether. Also with the III+ it was easy to find the distance between two waypoints by referencing one by the other. That function seems to be missing too. Overall I definitely give the GPSMAP 76 a two thumbs up so far!! I haven't had a chance to hunt a cache with it yet, but that will happen at lunchtime today!!

Just a question, but is geocaching trademarked? Everyone seems to talk like "If so-and-so doesn't mind.." - I didn't think that geocaching was trademarked.

d should take pride in having done so. I was not one of those, but I certainly appreciate the effort of those people, and I hope that at the various gatherings we will have I will be able to talk to them and give them the credit they are due.

If I could offer a little advice in dealing with the NPS - I'm a skydiver, and we've been fighting for the right to hurl ourselves off cliffs in Yosemite for quite some time now. Please take a hint from some of the people who have ruined it for us - when you plead your case, or write your representative, or do whatever you are thinking of doing regarding placing a cache in a NPS area do this one thing for the rest of us: PLEASE BE FRIENDLY AND INFORMED. Coming off as an *** does not help you get your cache on NPS land. Talk to the authorities. Tell them you want to place your cache on-trail or in an acceptable off-trail location. Talk over WHERE exactly. If they say "absolutely not!" politely ask for a reason, and walk away. If you get snotty or do one little thing to antagonize us [geo-cachers], we're done for. There is no way I'm ever going to be able to BASE El Capitan because one of our own piled in off the wall jumping borrowed gear during a "protest" dive. Try to be civil and work things out with the authorities - take a clue from the post about the Santa Fe trail above - sounds like they are on the right track! --Mike

I'm not a regular and am a newbie to the whole geopcachine scene but I have to add my two cents. I think it's great that someone has set up a site to act as a resource for geocaching. Had it been me I would fight my hardest to make it so that I was "THE RESOURCE". Not because of ego or becuase of money, but because I want a geocaching resource out there that is complete and up to date. How would it be if there were 10 different phone book companies in town. You had 10 phone books in your house and everybody in town submits there phone number to one of them. Imagine searchging for anumber. Isn't it nice that there is "1" database that provides you with the information your searching for. And as for this talk of going commercial and pay to play etc etc etc. You guys really have to be crazy to think that someonbe would do this. Or they would have to be crazy to do it. There is no money in it. Companies out there on the internet that offer far more valuable services are going broke on the net. The only way to maintain a pay to play caching system is to have well maintained caches that are hard to find and offer decent cash prizes.

quote:Originally posted by c.mathis: Once you removed your cache from the property in question, your legal obligation ends. No judge would expect you to be able to remove all reference of the cache from EVERY page on the Internet. It's not possible. Besides, it's the cache that would be illegal, NOT the coordinates themselves. Of course that is considered confrontational to the Park service, and they will take a harder look at stifling the game in more and more locations. I guarantee that. Or worse, you wouldn't feel responsible if there was too much foot traffic to a spot that needed protected, or a place you knew that was dangerous afterwards but had no ability to remove the coordinates? I would consider that extremely careless when the alternative was to keep your coordinates central. I like the idea worse and worse as we talk about it. That, of course, doesn't mean I won't leave the checkbox, but I certainly won't check it for my caches. Jeremy

ow if your wise remarks are a response to my "Can the humans prevail?" or not. If so, I guess I will have to explain to you what I meant by that remark. It had nothing to do with you or with Dave Ulmer. It was a reference to any geocachers who go after the Missions placed by 20th Century Fox and to those cachers evading the imaginary forces of the A.P.E. alliance. It is a fantasy game scout. It has nothing to do with the real feelings you and some others have toward Jeremy. May I suggest that you start a forum discussion of your own and name it in such a way that all who share your views could go there and you could talk to each other about those views. This thread is hopefully going to be about the Project Ape caches and nothing else. Thanks.....Ron

I have had for about two weeks now a sticker on my car that I made using "Paint" and some full-page sized label stock that says: THIS VEHICLE STOPS AT ALL GEO-CACHES. I have had some responses to this, and it has given me the opportunity to talk about our sport. I tend to agree with LazyBoy, in that I do not think the stickers would tend to show up on trees, buildings, dumpsters, etc. If the only way to get them is by ordering them and paying for them, people will tend to be pretty selective as to where they put them - and, we're not a bunch of delinquents. (SFM)

I gun is a good way to defend yourself but a lot of caches are hiden in parks where hunting is prohibited.So don't get caught with a gun in there.Another alternative is pepper spray.There are some types especially made for bears.My friends father as some of this.It is usually used by hunting guides etc.I think this type of spray is also stronger than the usual mace.The best is to avoid them if you can.And if you can't back away slowly and walk away if he didn't see you.If he see's you talk to the bear while slowly backing away.I have came face to face with several bears and walked away.But i admit it is pretty scarry.And don't slip in that brown stuff leaking from your pants)

I gun is a good way to defend yourself but a lot of caches are hiden in parks where hunting is prohibited.So don't get caught with a gun in there.Another alternative is pepper spray.There are some types especially made for bears.My friends father as some of this.It is usually used by hunting guides etc.I think this type of spray is also stronger than the usual mace.The best is to avoid them if you can.And if you can't back away slowly and walk away if he didn't see you.If he see's you talk to the bear while slowly backing away.I have came face to face with several bears and walked away.But i admit it is pretty scarry.And don't slip in that brown stuff leaking from your pants)

quote:Originally posted by Krepism:One really nice thing about these forums and the "list" is that we can talk about anything. And while I think every one has been very civil about this and have been playing very nice, things are getting out of hand a bit. Jeremy has put his heart and soul into this game and if it were not for him, this game would not be where it is today. Yes maybe some one would have come along and used Netscape to create a cheesy web page and you could email him/her with the coordinates and when they got around to it, it may have got posted within a month. Nobody, Nobody here has the dedication like Jeremy to keep this site up. Other sites have begun to pop up, but if you look at them they are designed to make money right off the bat, but Jeremy has taken another route. Promote the game; make a great central point to obtain coordinates and stats. And maybe, just maybe he might make a few dollars. Do I care if this information that I upload to "HIS" servers falls under his copyright, NO. Do any of you really care??? I hope not. Where did all of you hear about this game?? I will bet it was some how related to a promotion that Jeremy had to do with. Some one before chastised Jeremy for promoting this sport all over the news stations. When do any of you think the last time Jeremy got out to seek a cache? I would not think he has had a chance to get out, unless it was for a promo with a reporter. Some of you are going to say, "that?s my point, why doesn?t he allow people to help so he is not under so much pressure". He does not want it!! And I don?t blame him; I would not want it either. Do you people share the credit you receive at work with the janitors, just because they clean your cubes? Do you share the credit with the highway construction crews, hey with out that road you could not get to work? My point is, let Jeremy get all the credit he can, if that includes copyrighting the information that he collects on "HIS" website, then so be it. Jeremy has made every effort to make "his" web site legal as possible. With out central administration, the name Geocaching will start to get a bad name. For the last year we have all put our faith in Jeremy to take this sport to the next level. Any complaints??? I did not think so!!! Now stop your whining, move on and get out and go Geocaching!! No reason to frown and use the angry red face guy. Remember... cheerful, happy-time discussion? No one here is discounting the fact that Mr. Irish puts in a hell of a lot of time into maintaining and designing the website. And no one is contesting that he has put his own human and monetary capital into the site. I haven't heard anyone here say anything to that effect. As for sharing credit with the janitors that clean my cubical (if i had one that is), sure, I share credit with them. We pay them in exchange for goods and services rendered (credit for the job that they have done), in a capitalistic society it's only right. In fact it's a pretty dadgum good place to be a janitor. And finally... centralized administration kicks major butt.

quote:Originally posted by jeremy:No. That's fine. You can leave the post if you want. If not, one way to remove the post is to edit it and make the contents blank. I do apologize for questioning whether Ed had found the spoon was legitimate. It did come out as a rude accusation. It's all good. Jeremy Thanks, but it was wrong of me to post those emails without your prior permission. I have edited the post down to nothing. Mea culpa. Now, shall we talk about the issues and come up with some solution so that the maps can return? Issue 1) The Lost Caches. I think these are a valuable part of geocaching for all the reasons listed by people above. I've got numerous 'use common sense' messages on the page and it's an "opt out" list (i.e. I've posted that if anyone wants their cache removed from the list it's taken off immediately.) Perhaps an "opt-in" list would be acceptable? Issue 2) Copyright notices. I have no problem putting something that acknowleges your work at the bottom of my page. I'm reluctant however to place something on the map images themselves as those are the result of MY hard work. Again perhaps we can find some middle ground. In the meantime, my page remains offline. -Buxley

Here's my thought. Why don't you contact the folks on high in NC and talk to them. Find out who the programs director is for NC parks and get him intrigued with Geocaching. I've talked to the programs director for Tennessee state parks, Charlie Tate, and he was interested in finding some way to allow Geocaching that would alleviate possible problems that could occur without the park services involvement. The biggest thing I see in keeping the parks open to Geocaching is that those people wanting to establish a cache on park lands, or any land, need to get permission first. It only takes a few minutes to make a phone call and I've found that these folks are extremely approachable.

quote:Originally posted by pfred:I'd like to see an option to password-protect the logbook on a cache page. That would be a neat solution to a complaint some have had about spoilers in the logs. Cache hiders who object to loggers including spoilers could password protect the log, so the only readers would be people who have already found the log. Successful hunters could feel free to talk about all the details of the hunt without fear of spoiling it for others who haven't hunted that cache yet. Make this feature optional and those who like things just the way they are can continue to do logs the old way. To each his own.

I just started using PanTerra and have found it to be quite good. Now if Geocaching.com could talk directly to it to exchange waypoints...

John, The Arboretum folks have been extremely supportive of the caches. I'm even conspiring with them to place at least one more at a nearby park the same manager is responsible for. Regardless of their support, you're right, any comments to them will help the sport in general. I'm hoping that the Star reporter will talk to the Arboretum manager for some supportive comments. Well, we've finally got graduation behind use, and I think I may give this coming weekend over to finally getting back to cache hunting. Paul Lamble