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If you hold a normal compass (mine is an old Boy Scout compass) flat the arrow points to Magnetic North. You then rotate the base to point towards your waypoint to set the bearing. All works fine, but if you tilt the compass it will display corrupted information. The same could be true for GPSr units, however... On my GPSr I display the heading arrow and the actual bearing to the next waypoint. The bearing is determined by the GPS signal, but the heading is determined by either motion (>1.5 mph) or, if no motion, magnetometers. Just like my BSA compass, tilting the GPSr will corrupt the heading unless corrected. Older GPSr used a bubble level to fix the compass’ orientation but now most GPSrs use accelerometers. There are three accelerometers that are used to orient GPSrs by determining which way is down (center of the earth) by measuring the acceleration forces in 3-space (XYZ). Gravity is an acceleration force. Magnetometers are constantly changing as the GPSr moves through local lines of magnetic flux. Accelerometers are calibrated once (unless they become corrupted) so the GPSr knows how it is oriented. If tilted the GPSr can mathematically reorient itself to find the center of the earth. It should be noted, magnetic compasses don’t necessarily point to Magnetic North. They align themselves to the local lines of force which generally point to Magnetic North. These lines of force are subject to local disturbances that may bend them and throw off the compass needle.

Interesting ideas all around. My 2 cents. I like the comment of Dani+Iris. Yes, it's tedious to maintain a physical location (although in my case it's not too bad honestly). On the other hand, there's plenty of examples of cartridges being (re)used outside of the original cache (the Hangman series in the US, the reverse Wherigo from Waldmeister). To attract a crowd for playing Wherigo's (isn't that what we all want), I feel the app/player experience is key. We (as builders) are obviously quick to point out the flaws/features requests of creating a Wherigo. But, in the end it's still the person that's loading a cartridge on his smartphone who's the boss. So what is it in Wherigo that can attract crowds over the myriad (successful or not) alternatives that have been launched? (I wish I had the answer to this.) Trying to dissect some of the ideas that were posted by Ranger Fox and others on the subject. 1. In general - I like the idea of having a map centric approach. It will put limits to how you can develop things, but I think it will give a much better experience for the player. - Videos: I do see use cases (eg. interaction with an NPC) but I would be deterred by the extra effort needed to create videos on top of building the cartridge. So for sure not a critical/v2.1 item for me. From that respect, Audio is more important. - Formatting of items to make it more appealing: text with different fonts/colors/..., different colors for the zones (if you still have those), ... 2. On Zones - Having a more 'stable' zone experience dealing with GPS-jitter - For most purposes, just a point is sufficient, but having a shape can be interesting (eg. I have one built on a roundabout, the zones are like a piece of a pie forming a complete circle; it's nice to have rectangles if you want to have a "gameboard" like experience) - I like the idea of having a picture/icon showing on the map, instead of just the zone shape. But we need to think about how to do it with overlapping zones/small zones (compared to the minimum picture size) 3. On NPC / Items - I like the idea of having a picture/icon showing. But we need to think about how to do it with many items on the same spot/in the same zone - I like the idea of not being forced to have these NPC/Items in a zone (or the inventory) for them to show up - Taking this one step further: what's the difference between a zone and one of these objects? From a logical perspective, not a lot (especially if you don't have shapes for zones). Only the options you have to interact with the Object might be different ("add to inventory" or "use" for Items, "talk" is typically something for NPC). 4. Online or not? - I do see the advantage of being able to play it offline. Trust me, as a European without decent/affordable data plans outside of Europe, it can become costly when visiting the US or other territories. - I like the idea of having a neatly integrated system with APIs to load a cartridge, post a "log", mark completion, ... 5. On Groundspeak/GC links - With the adventure labs, it's going to be difficult to sell a tour guide like Wherigo platform on them - From the GC posting guidelines: "specific apps" are not allowed. So they can easily block/disallow them. https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=97&pgid=297#mobileapps A small remark on this: yes, it's (more) work to create a Wherigo than just drop a pill bottle behind a tree in a forest. But I am sure some people put equally (if not more) time in building great cache containers, multi's, gadgetcaches or mysteries. That being said, to buld a community, you'll need "many" cartridges (of high quality), so you'll need many builders too. SWIPEE

I'll add one that's been present for several years now. When a PNG or GIF image is uploaded to a cache page, the contents of the file are quietly changed to progressive jpeg with no warning and no change to the file suffix. There are plenty of puzzle caches that rely on these file formats, for example where the solution is encoded in RGB values, yet this behaviour isn't even documented in the Help Centre, leaving unwary COs oblivious to the fact that their carefully crafted PNG or GIF file has turned into a jpeg without even the .JPG extension to suggest anything's changed. The only explanation given for this is that, for players on slow internet connections, it looks prettier for images to gradually come into focus than to be built up raster-fashion. Talk about form over function!

Be welcome! I would suggest that you do some caching for a while, attend some Events and talk to folks there... I bet all (almost) your questions will be answered just by playing. On the other hand you may be interested also in some geocaching based books and movies or series, like Splinterheads, Dark, etc. Some rare geocoins would be good things to leave in the caches, or memorabilia from pop culture, like the original artifacts in the APE Cache series, from Planet of the Apes. Enjoy and be inspired. PS: I have done a lot of covers for the portuguese versions of Goosebumps, from R. L. Stine.

I've been checking and couldn't find a thread for this type of WM. How many times can we see a satellite and we have not had time to talk with a partner, or even two partners saw a satellite, but someone who also saw it (and is within the distance of being able to share WM) is left without being able to register it? Well, here we can write down what we saw or did (especially those that were not published)

The planned service life of WISA Woodsat is approximately 2 years but if all goes well, it might be significantly longer. The time on orbit is estimated to be 7-10 years. During that time the velocity will slow down so much that gravity will start pulling the satellite from the orbit. As WISA Woodsat is small and made of wood instead of e.g. aluminum, it will turn into gas (it will not burn due to the lack of oxygen).

I've helped with Intro to Geocaching classes sponsored by a county parks department. The instructor presented a quick "chalk talk" at the parking lot, ending it with a challenge to spot a camouflaged geocache right there where the "chalk talk" had been given. (It was a "hidden in plain sight" camouflage cache.) Then we broke up into small groups with an experienced geocacher assigned to each group. Each group was also given a preprogrammed GPS receiver with 8-10 caches on a nearby trail. The caches were rather varied, but close to each other. The new geocachers could find several different types of hide and be back at the trailhead by lunchtime. But yeah, with beginners, each group needs an experienced geocacher just to catch the things they forgot from the "chalk talk".

Yeah color me unimpressed lately with HQ. I definitely see them less as stewards now and more of a corporate machine that does not care about us, only about the bottom line. They talk a good game, but killing benchmarks and then messing up the search function and telling us "Sorry, we are on vacation and will get around to it when we get around to it" has me completely put off. At least I can go find a ton of adventure labs with little to no effort from a parking lot somewhere. What an adventure.

Atlas, I understand your collection. I also know you realize the difference between using them and collecting them and are prepared to use bespoke software if you can get it at all. (Good luck with that Magellan stuff that required online registration, for example.) Mineral, close call! The 600 was actually the last device that I purchased when it was substantially discounted. The 450 it replaced had gotten crash-happy. The 600 at least rebooted more quickly when it crashed. By the time I purchased it, my own geocaching was largely limited by my own health and available time to business travels when I was "stuck" out of town. South SF Bay had enough geocaches to keep me occupied and there was enough flat land that I could choose my own adventures to tailor my days to my pain level for the day. I think I probably have a thousand or more finds that I've not even logged when I cached in part of a group on GeoWoodstock weekends, but I'm pretty much a former geocacher at this point. Thanx, user13371. For a few years after my surgeries, I was "frownie face" most of the time. While I still can't predict how much time I can devote to software just due to the nature of spinal issues, I do have some random lucid hours from time to time, so I can still pop out a release or two a year even if working from the bed or something. It's just the nature of my disability. The removal is in https://github.com/GPSBabel/gpsbabel/pull/961. Once I get that build green, I'll push it and it'll be gone in the nightlies and all future builds. For some reason, the doc build is silently failing on my machine right now and I don't feel like debugging that. I'll just "spray and pray" in the build cluster at Github. Once that PR is submitted, it shall be done. In vaguely related news, the birthdate of GPSBabel's original code turns drinking age this week. It was just before the Christmas holiday in 2001 when I was still in a neck brace from my very first spinal surgery (the morning of 9/11) when I started geocaching. I had a DNF from mistyping the coordinates in my Map330 and I started writing code to talk to the device from SCO UNIX after being frustrated with the tools available at the time.

I occasionally look through my old finds, and noticed that I am the last one to find dozens of caches. In fact, I made a spreadsheet of caches for which I am the last to find, and I have now recorded 130 caches. I was thinking this could be a good Challenge Cache. Of course if you just went on a big Geo Trail and found 100 caches that might be unfair, so I could put certain date parameters on it like one of the following: "To qualify for this challenge, you need to be the last finder on 100 caches and the most recent "last finder" cache must be at least 30 days ago." or "To qualify for this challenge, you need to be the last finder on 25 caches and the most recent "last finder" cache must be at least 6 months ago I would like some feedback if the community thinks this would be a good idea for a Challenge cache. If people think this would be a cool idea, who do I talk to about writing the code for it?

A lot of talk here about COs not using the OM log. My irk is when COs use the OM log to say. "I'm going to fix the problem." Case in point, a location I pass frequently when traveling where the cache has been missing for 8 months and the CO is doing nothing but posting bogus OM logs.

Another way to work around it would be to block cookiebot.com, say at the firewall or HOSTS file. I've done this for a few years, and the site works fine for me, including the message center. Also keeps the site from asking me about cookies, don't ever talk to me about cookies.

I am pleased to announce that we have three winners of the Survey Mark Quiz. First place goes to “Bill93”, second place to “m&h”, and third place to “billwallace”. Congrats to all! More good news, everyone passed and the average grade was 81.25%. No one got 100% however. I did an analysis to see which questions were answered incorrectly most often. Question #1 was the worst, followed by questions #23 and #27. There were 16 questions that everyone got correct. Here are the correct answers (at least my opinion) and some brief comments. 1. In which time frame were the first survey disks set in the U.S. by any agency? A. 1810-1819, B, 1850-1859, *C. 1870-1879, D. 1900-1909. The key words in the question are “..by any agency?” Verplanck Colvin set survey disks in the Adirondack Mountains during the 1870’s as the Superintendent of the Adirondack Survey (New York State agency). In fact, the earliest USC&GS disks (1900) bear a striking resemblance to Colvin’s disks. See page 9 of my paper on survey marks at: http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/web/about_ngs/hist...ey_Mark_Art.pdf and: http://www.colvincrew.org/verplanck-colvin . 2. What is the definition of a bench mark? A. Any point in the Geocaching or National Geodetic Survey databases, B. Any survey disk, *C. A mark with a known elevation above or below a certain datum, D. A brand of booze. Glad to report that no one selected “D” - everyone got this one correct!! 3. The Bilby Tower was first used in the year: A. 1870, B. 1900, C. 1917, *D. 1927. It was designed by Jasper Bilby in 1926 based on the common windmill towers, and first used in 1927. The last tower built by this agency was built in 1984. For a photo of one of the first towers built, see: http://usasearch.gov/search?v%3aproject=fi...amp;rpaid=& 4. A “Base Line” is: A. A line between two survey points that is carefully measured for use on controlling the scale of triangulation, B. A line between two survey points that is carefully measured and used to calibrate electronic distance measuring instruments, *C. Both of the above, D. Neither of the above. 5. Which if the following is not a standard height for a Bilby Tower: A. 37, B. 50, *C. 63, D. 103. The standard heights were 24, 37, 50, 64, 77, 90, 103, 116, and 129 (discontinued). The most common heights were 77 and 90 feet because these heights would get above most trees and also provide enough height to help compensate for the curvature of the earth. These heights were to the top of the inner tower – the height of the instrument. The light plate at the very top of the outer tower was 10 feet higher. Note, the tower leg sections were 13 feet, 8.5 inches long so that the heights could be varied at the above intervals depending on the reconnaissance work done ahead of time by a reconnaissance party. The leg sections overlapped and were joined by two bolts. The section length, this overlap, and rounding to the nearest foot caused the height differences to not be exactly 13 feet and caused the 14 foot difference between the 50 foot tower height and the 64 foot height. The 1965 version of the manual for Bilby Towers is on-line at: http://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/cgs_specpu...5U352no62-3.PDF . This document contains excellent photographs and drawings. 6. Which of the following were used as survey marks by the USC&GS: A. Bottles, B. Wooden stakes, C. Nails, *D. All of the above. 7. Which of the following types of USC&GS survey disks had arrows on them? A. Reference marks, B. Azimuth marks, C. Gravity reference marks, *D. All of the above. 8. Which of the following were used to measure distances by the USC&GS/NGS? A. A chain, B. A rod in an ice bath, C. A laser, *D. All of the above. 9. The first survey disks used by the USC&GS were: A. Flat on top, *B. “Cup” shaped, C. Convex on top, D. None of the above. 10. A tower such as a church spire, radio mast, or water tank which has been surveyed is called a: A. Bench mark, B. Survey mark, *C. Intersection station, D. None of the above. I guess this is one of my “pet peeves” – when people refer to “Intersection Stations” as “Bench Marks”. 11. Most USC&GS survey disks were set between the years: A. 1807 – Present B. 1880 – 1970 *C. 1900 – 1970 D. 1910 – present. 12. National Ocean Survey (later National Ocean Service) disks were set to mark: A. Tidal bench marks, B. Third-order horizontal points for hydrographic surveys, C. Airport surveys, *D. All of the above. 13. Reference marks are generally within ______ meters of the triangulation station. A. 10, B. 20, *C. 30, D. 40. Because 30 meters (or 100 feet) is the length of many measuring tapes. 14. USC&GS or NGS survey disks have been made of: A. Brass/bronze, B. Iron/steel, C. Aluminum, *D. All of the above. 15. A USC&GS disk with a circle in the center could mark a: A. Topographic Station, B. Hydrographic Station, C. Bench Mark, *D. All of the above. 16. The rarest USC&GS disk is probably the: A. Hexangle shaped Gravity disk, B. “Cup” shaped triangulation station disk, C. Magnetic station disk with 6-pointed star, *D. Hexangle shaped Gravity reference mark disk. Our current NGS “gravity guy” told me he has only ever seen 1 or 2 of these. I have never seen even one. 17. Which of these is usually the only one with a horizontal position? A. MAGNETIC STATION, B. GRAVITY STATION, C. BENCH MARK, *D. TOPOGRAPHIC STATION. Topographic Stations have third-order horizontal positions, formerly used to control shoreline mapping. 18. Which of these types of disks may have an underground mark beneath it? A. TRIANGULATION STATION, B. REFENCE MARK, C. AZIMUTH MARK, *D. All of the above During the 1970’s it was common practice to set underground marks at Azimuth Marks (because the Azimuth Marks were positioned then). Underground marks at Reference Marks were rare but were set at one point in time. 19. Survey disks are set: A. Above ground level, B. Below ground level, C. Flush with the ground, *D. All of the above. 20. Which of the following types of disks do not have a blank spot for stamping the elevation? A. BENCH MARK with 3 crossed slashes, B. TRAVERSE STATION, C. USC&GS AND STATE SURVEY, *D. GRAVITY STATION. 21. Which of the following symbols used in the center of a disk were not used on a BENCH MARK disk? A. Slash, B . Circle, C. Three crossed slashes, *D. Triangle. 22. Which of these USC&GS disks did the NGS HORIZONTAL CONTROL MARK not replace? A. TOPOGRAPHIC STATION, B. HYDROGRAPHIC STATION, *C. GRAVITY STATION, D. TRAVERSE STATION. The Topo. Sta., the Hydro. Sta. and the Traverse Stations were all set and surveyed to provide horizontal positions. 23. Which of these following disk symbols were used to mark horizontal control points? A. Triangle, B. Circle, C. Cross, *D. All of the above. USC&GS Topographic Station disks and Hydrographic Station disks have circles in the center. “Topo” disks were used for horizontal control for shoreline mapping and airport surveys, and “Hydro” disks were used for horizontal control of hydrographic surveys. These surveys were mainly third-order, and positioned from higher order triangulation stations. NOS disks used for horizontal control have a “+” in the center. 24. When searching for a survey mark on a hill top, look for: A. Highest point, B. Point with best visibility around the horizon, C. Place where you would have set the mark, *D. All of the above. Hilltop points would almost always be triangulation stations (its too time consuming to level to the top of a tall hill or mountain). All three factors apply. 25. When looking for a bench mark (vertical point), consider: A. Mark spacing along the level line, B. Exposed bedrock, C. Clues in the Description, *D. All of the above. 26. Which of the following is not true about Reference Marks? A. Disks have arrows pointing to the Triangulation Station, B. Marks usually less than 100 feet from the Station, *C. Always higher than the Station, D. Station Description contains the distance and direction from the Station to the RMs. 27. Which of the following usually do not have an accurate horizontal position? A. GRAVITY STATION, B. MAGNETIC STATION, C. BENCH MARK, *D. All of the above. This is the third of the most commonly missed questions. Gravity Stations, when originally set, usually have only gravity information, Magnetic Stations have magnetic information and Bench Marks have elevations. Later, any of these might be surveyed again as part of a triangulation project and given an accurate horizontal position. 28. The most important factor in a close-up photograph of a survey mark: A., No debris covering mark, *B. All stamping is clear and legible, C. Even lighting, D. Disk fills most of photo. 29. Which of the following is not needed when recovering a survey mark? A. Station Description, *B. Hammer, C. Tape measure, D. Magnetic compass. A hammer is sometimes useful, but is the least essential of the four. 30. Which of the following is not a parameter for setting a concrete mark: A. Four feet deep, B. Twelve inches in diameter, *C. Rebar placed in concrete, D. Collar or form used around top portion of mark. We stopped putting magnetic materials in monuments many years ago. 31. Survey towers were made of: A. Steel, B. Wood, C. Aluminum, *D. All of the above. 32. Which of the following can be used to measure horizontal angles: A. Transit, B. Sextant, C. Theodolite, *D. All of the above. A sextant can be turned 90 degrees (flat with the horizon) and used to measure horizontal angles. In fact, fixes from two horizontal sextant angles were the method used for many years to position hydrographic survey launches. Angles were turned between a series of marked points (signals) along the shoreline. 33. Tools used to dig a hole for a concrete mark include: A. Auger, B. Post hole digger, C. Sharp-shooter shovel, *D. All of the above. 34. The back of a survey disk might contain: A. A Stem for setting in a drill hole in bedrock or a large structure, B. A Tube for mounting on a buried rod, C. A Collar for mounting on a pipe, *D. All of the above. 35. Which type of disk came in two shapes? A. MAGNETIC STATION, *B. GRAVITY STATION, C. HYDROGRAPHIC STATION, D. None of the above. 36. During the 1950’s and 1960’s, the number of disks set at a Triangulation Station was usually: A. 3, B. 4, *C. 5, D. 6. Station disk, underground station disk, RM1 disk, RM2 disk, and Azimuth Mark disk. 37. For many years, the specified distance range from the Triangulation Station to the Azimuth Mark was: A. 30 meters to 3 miles, B. 100 meters to 3 miles, *C. 1/4 mile to 2 miles, D. None of the above. 38. USC&GS disks were phased out of usage when NOAA was formed in: *A. 1970, B. 1971, C. 1972, D. None of the above. 39. The NGS disk that did not replace a USC&GS disk: A. HORIZONTAL CONTROL MARK, B. VERTICAL CONTROL MARK, C. GRAVITY MARK, *D. CALIBRATION BASE LINE. 40. The following types of aluminum logo caps were made (collar and lid to protect stainless steel rod marks): A. Vertical Control Mark, B. Geodetic control mark, C. Tidal Bench Mark, *D. All of the above. All three were made and we still use “B” and C”. Three winners - please email me your mailing addresses and I will mail your prizes. T-shirts, like the one awarded for first place, are available for sale by the U.S. Coast & Geodetic Survey Heritage Society. Let me know if you are interested. T-shirt graphics at: BM on front ( ) and the un-official USC&GS logo of an Eagle with a sextant on the back ( ). GeorgeL NGS

Not a naive assumption, but, yes, I did take for granted that you hadn't talked to the COs because if you already had reactions from the COs, I would expected you to present those in order to make that the topic. The responses you've now told us about are the real problem that we can talk about solving. It's far less productive to start with the unsupported claim that the NM attribute is useless because you don't think it's being used correctly. But, I see, this way you got to call someone innocently trying to help you with your problem "naive", so that's always fun.

I am glad our countless hours of research through logs and plethora of photos mean nothing to HQ and zero attempts are being made to keep our data available in an archived format. All this community talk is nothing but lip service to the corporate machine and bottom line.

If this is based truly on non use (vs cost cutting which I believe it is) then get rid of other things in geocaching that get little use such as caches that require special equipment such as Wherigo or project APE caches. You guys talk out both sides of your mouth!

No, it's the same issue that I described previously. Comcast is now throttling Weekly Mailer messages we attempt to send by deferment, so our server keeps retrying until the message is accepted or expired. In this case, it took ~4 days. Here are the logs: Sep 30 13:40:36 signal2 postfix/error[18592]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=0.1, delays=0.1/0/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta34.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Sep 30 14:21:55 signal2 postfix/error[27076]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=2478, delays=2478/0/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx2.comcast.net[76.96.40.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta24.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Sep 30 15:15:28 signal2 postfix/error[26069]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=5692, delays=5692/0/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta10.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Sep 30 17:31:19 signal2 postfix/error[21426]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=13842, delays=13842/0/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta19.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Sep 30 21:50:24 signal2 postfix/error[21488]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=29388, delays=29388/0/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta25.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 1 02:20:11 signal2 postfix/error[17888]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=45575, delays=45575/0/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx2.comcast.net[76.96.40.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta25.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 1 06:50:08 signal2 postfix/error[14401]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=61771, delays=61767/4.3/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx2.comcast.net[76.96.40.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta28.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 1 11:20:24 signal2 postfix/error[10233]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=77988, delays=77967/21/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 1 15:50:18 signal2 postfix/error[5719]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=94181, delays=94167/15/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta30.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 1 20:20:06 signal2 postfix/error[1014]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=110369, delays=110367/2.6/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta29.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 2 00:50:09 signal2 postfix/error[29149]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=126572, delays=126572/0/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx2.comcast.net[76.96.40.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta12.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 2 05:20:20 signal2 postfix/error[24714]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=142783, delays=142764/19/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx2.comcast.net[76.96.40.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta32.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 2 09:50:20 signal2 postfix/error[20450]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=158983, delays=158965/19/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta27.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 2 14:20:05 signal2 postfix/error[15686]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=175169, delays=175165/3.9/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta02.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 2 18:50:05 signal2 postfix/error[11213]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=191369, delays=191365/4/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx2.comcast.net[76.96.40.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta21.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 2 23:20:32 signal2 postfix/error[5842]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=207596, delays=207564/32/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta26.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 3 03:50:18 signal2 postfix/error[1119]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=223782, delays=223765/17/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta12.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 3 08:20:09 signal2 postfix/error[28593]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=239973, delays=239966/7/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx2.comcast.net[76.96.40.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta38.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 3 12:50:08 signal2 postfix/error[23322]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=256172, delays=256167/4.6/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx2.comcast.net[76.96.40.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta17.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 3 17:20:18 signal2 postfix/error[18820]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=272382, delays=272367/15/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx2.comcast.net[76.96.40.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 3 21:50:19 signal2 postfix/smtp[13687]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147]:25, delay=288583, delays=288567/15/0.3/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (host mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta18.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 4 02:20:12 signal2 postfix/smtp[8287]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147]:25, delay=304776, delays=304768/6.3/0.3/0.7, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 YxL81m02s3RP4Bm0QxL95o mail accepted for delivery) And I still don't get one.

No, it's the same issue that I described previously. Comcast is now throttling Weekly Mailer messages we attempt to send by deferment, so our server keeps retrying until the message is accepted or expired. In this case, it took ~4 days. Here are the logs: Sep 30 13:40:36 signal2 postfix/error[18592]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=0.1, delays=0.1/0/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta34.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Sep 30 14:21:55 signal2 postfix/error[27076]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=2478, delays=2478/0/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx2.comcast.net[76.96.40.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta24.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Sep 30 15:15:28 signal2 postfix/error[26069]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=5692, delays=5692/0/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta10.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Sep 30 17:31:19 signal2 postfix/error[21426]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=13842, delays=13842/0/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta19.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Sep 30 21:50:24 signal2 postfix/error[21488]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=29388, delays=29388/0/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta25.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 1 02:20:11 signal2 postfix/error[17888]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=45575, delays=45575/0/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx2.comcast.net[76.96.40.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta25.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 1 06:50:08 signal2 postfix/error[14401]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=61771, delays=61767/4.3/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx2.comcast.net[76.96.40.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta28.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 1 11:20:24 signal2 postfix/error[10233]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=77988, delays=77967/21/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 1 15:50:18 signal2 postfix/error[5719]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=94181, delays=94167/15/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta30.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 1 20:20:06 signal2 postfix/error[1014]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=110369, delays=110367/2.6/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta29.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 2 00:50:09 signal2 postfix/error[29149]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=126572, delays=126572/0/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx2.comcast.net[76.96.40.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta12.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 2 05:20:20 signal2 postfix/error[24714]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=142783, delays=142764/19/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx2.comcast.net[76.96.40.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta32.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 2 09:50:20 signal2 postfix/error[20450]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=158983, delays=158965/19/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta27.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 2 14:20:05 signal2 postfix/error[15686]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=175169, delays=175165/3.9/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta02.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 2 18:50:05 signal2 postfix/error[11213]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=191369, delays=191365/4/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx2.comcast.net[76.96.40.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta21.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 2 23:20:32 signal2 postfix/error[5842]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=207596, delays=207564/32/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta26.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 3 03:50:18 signal2 postfix/error[1119]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=223782, delays=223765/17/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta12.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 3 08:20:09 signal2 postfix/error[28593]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=239973, delays=239966/7/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx2.comcast.net[76.96.40.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta38.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 3 12:50:08 signal2 postfix/error[23322]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=256172, delays=256167/4.6/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx2.comcast.net[76.96.40.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta17.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 3 17:20:18 signal2 postfix/error[18820]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=none, delay=272382, delays=272367/15/0/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mx2.comcast.net[76.96.40.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 3 21:50:19 signal2 postfix/smtp[13687]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147]:25, delay=288583, delays=288567/15/0.3/0, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (host mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147] refused to talk to me: 421 imta18.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net comcast Try again later) Oct 4 02:20:12 signal2 postfix/smtp[8287]: DBBC5702B75: to=<earl.anderson@comcast.net>, relay=mx1.comcast.net[68.87.26.147]:25, delay=304776, delays=304768/6.3/0.3/0.7, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 YxL81m02s3RP4Bm0QxL95o mail accepted for delivery)

Looks to me that the proposed category is very similar to the elongated coins category (aka Penny Smashers) in the aspect of an automaton creating/selling a touristic token. T0SHEA told me (not a week ago) that we should strive for inclusion if we have similarities to another category. So you should have a talk to the category leaders / officers first if they are willing to expand their category to accept these touristic tokens also.

Hello everyone! Here is a great place to post that you want your score updated, talk about high scoring caches, ask questions, etc. Have fun with the game, and check out the rest of my "Let the Games Begin!" series caches! GeoEskimo

Can someone explain a gravity station in brief non-surveyer's terms? I understand a triangulation station (horizonal) and a benchmark (verticle). What's the purpose of a gravity station? I'm sure it has something to do with measuring gravity . What does gravity have to do with mapping and surveying?

Yeah, I agree with you about that. That's one one the reasons I didn't seriously think he was interested in newbies: he was just using them as an easy way to talk about the perceived unfairness of challenges that allow history even though the newbies themselves wouldn't notice it.

Regarding that we can also have a fourth option : 3a. Wayfrog promotes some other officer (perhaps the active one) and I have to talk again to the new leader. Or we could make it completely different and create a single category for each of the seven remaining countries (but for that option I would like to have a poll with at least two-thirds majority in favor for the split) ... Or something else that the community wants - just say it here. (This may include the (in my eyes really bad) idea to not have any new categories any more - but I think that should require a full approval with at least 95% of all waymarkers in favor ... And then we should close this recruiting part of the forum ... ).

Hello Very new to all this but I'm completely hooked already! I've hidden a cache near my house. Today, when I was sweeping the drive, a treasure hunter came for the cache. When she'd logged the stash she came over to talk to me about the gadget I was using to get the weeds out of my drive. Should I have mentioned that it was my cache??? I wanted to but didn't know what the etiquette was.

Better plan! Open enrollment is ON. Join, talk with our Wayfroggie about becoming leader. Throw out the deadwood. Invite some active Scandinavians to the group (there are a few here). Have one of them take it over, as a Scandinavian is a better choice as leader than a Canadian. Keith