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If signing your name is a pointless exercise, how do you feel about actually opening the cache? I mean, if you Found the cache and it's in your hands, you can still talk about it online. For that matter, why even pick it up. Once you see it, you can still talk about it. Right? So just look around for it and once you spot the hiding place you're good to go. Actually, I guess there's no reason to even see the cache. If you're not going to pick it up, or open it, or sign the log, why even bother putting your eyes on it? I think you should be able to find the place you think it's hidden in and then talk about it. You could probably even talk about it without going so far as to get out of your car. Why take the hike, or lift the lamp post skirt, or look under the bushes, etc. These require you to leave the nice cool air conditioned car. Perhaps you could just drive up to where you'd need to get out of your car if you were going to sign the log, and then turn around and go back home. Now that I really think about it, with gas prices so high, and signing being so pointless of an exercise, there's really no good reason to drive all the way out there. I say, since we're playing the game just so we can talk about caches, a lot of information is on the cache page itself, and that should give us enough to talk about. I wish these cache owners would stop being so self righteous and give up the "little man syndrome" about their power, and cut us some slack! My original position was that there are a few RARE instances in which a log cannot or should not be signed and that inasmuch as the cache was still actually found, it is still legitimate to log it as a find, and that is wrong to acuse someone who participates in the game/sport in good will by different personal rules as a being "cheater". That is still my position. Again I sign virtually all logs as a courtesy to the owner. Poking a hole is mushy log to PROVE that I was there is still a pointless excerise to me. By my personal rules, if I FIND the cache and open it, it is a FIND to me and I will log it as such, irrespective of whether the logbook, sheet, or mush-ball is signed. This talk about claiming logs from the car is silliness. I respect that others play by insisting that they must sign the log. All I can say, is that I don't try to tell anyone else how to do anthing, and I would hope others would adopt the same attitude in geocaching and life in general.

Sure, talk it over with them. Maybe they think it makes sense. Maybe mom planted the cache and the kid really did run out and find it as soon as it was published. I think it would be fun to find out and an easy way to meet them. They aren't adversaries or opponents, just people you're playing a game with. If you decide the FTF was invalid, then just ignore it. I'd try to make my FTF claim lighthearted. Maybe say "first to find after members of the CO's family" in the log. You get to decide if you're FTF. The CO doesn't have to approve your claim.

Oh we've had instances of proxy-maintenance being noticed by reviewers and being dealt with. It gets to the point that people won't mention in find logs that the cache was missing and so a replacement was set in place (whether knowing beforehand or not, with permission or not). It happens. And when it happens regularly, and the CO continues to allow it as if it's the norm, then reviewers will take action. At least around here. Now, I suppose it depends on what style of 'maintenance' is happening -- replacement caches (throwdowns or condoned) will likely get quicker action than other people merely replacing wet/full logs. But the underlying point remains - if a CO repeatedly allows others to 'maintain' their caches, they could face repercussive action by reviewers. But my thinking is it's one of those things that can be discussed since it's really a matter of CO reasoning and judgments, how bad the situation is, how it affects the community, and well, whether that cacher is in the reviewers' good books or not (how they've demonstrated their cache ownership ethics in the past). The base point is - you're the cache owner, YOU do the maintenance. There can be exceptions to that rule, and it may be possible to set a different approved maintenance plan in place, but that basic responsibility exists - the cache owner does cache maintenance. Stray from that and you risk repercussions. Always, the best course of action otherwise is to talk to your local reviewer. Positively and respectfully. It goes a long way.

More to the point, what do you call the people who you think are geocaching but when you talk to them you realise they're actually just shuffling around near a cache on their smartphone?

This discussion came up yesterday, but unfortunately the thread was closed. I also would like to talk about false or odd ratings. For reference: Discussing false ratings in a forum post is absolutely up for discussion, and has been discussed many times. Without getting into details, that's not all that was happening with that particular discussion, which is why that particular thread was closed.

This discussion came up yesterday, but unfortunately the thread was closed. I also would like to talk about false or odd ratings. For reference:

It looks fine to me. My only reaction is that any one of those requirements would make a good challenge cache, so putting them all together seems like overkill. If I knew you better, I'd try to talk you into doing 5 different wonderful challenge caches about those attributes instead of just the one. But if you're going to do just the one, and you really think the final location is good enough for that challenge, I think it sounds great. I doubt I'd satisfy the requirements, but I might be closer if I lived in your neck of the woods.

Furthermore, it creates problems with challenge-caches especially those covering number of countries covered. Note these states number of 'countries'. So I'd expect Northen Ireland would count toward this, however Project GC still shows my finds in Northern Ireland as part of another _country_... There is no talk in the challenge caches about 'political territories' or anything else. While I agree upon the ease relating to PQ's, searches and such. That has absolutely no bearing to souvenirs nor countries in the relation to challenges...

I'd bet there's a couple times Reviewers have been able to hit a cache FTF, simply not grabbed by others yet. - That's how I get some now. Most a day or two after published. I doubt a rogue Reviewer is fake-logging caches... We had one similar to yours years ago. A kid. Maybe they figured that if FTF was already "taken" online, they'd have more time to head out. - We notice that still ... caches often sitting for days unfound after a FTF. We see that in other areas too. One time the CO called to meet me as I opened the container, figured the field puzzle, and FTF a blank sheet. Now they knew for sure. Here, just talk at events (word spreads quick), and a mention of a fake FTF on the cache page got the kid to knock it off. - He depended on rides sometimes from an adult (who was at an event when it was discussed). I bet that helped too. Sometimes you have that kook that just likes to disrupt things. Possible that simply disregarding them is enough for them to stop. The "real" FTF could just log it, with no mention of the faker at all. Not getting the attention they need, maybe they'll move to something else. Can't hurt to give that a try...

My comment was not made at Rutson/Yorks, and I apologise if others took it the wrong way. My point is that isn't there enough caching forums already? IMHO It's defragmenting this forum and I for one have enough caching sites/forums to log into already. Can't these splinter groups be incorporated into separate topics here? We could end up with one for each area/county/city at this rate! Jon Like this maybe ? But as its been asked of the TPTB before i guess it will get as far as the counties request or the mega cache request or many other non USA centric requests on this site Great Plains Talk Geocaching in Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, and South Dakota. Forum Led by: Electric Mouse 592 2,964 Yesterday, 04:12 PM Midwest Talk Geocaching in Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Ohio, and Wisconsin. Forum Led by: *gln, WGA, CYBret 1,648 15,905 Today, 11:10 AM New England Talk Geocaching in Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Connecticut. Forum Led by: NJ Admin 1,994 20,509 Today, 02:39 AM Northeast Talk Geocaching in Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Washington, DC, and West Virginia. Forum Led by: Keystone, NJ Admin 3,643 41,642 Today, 05:02 AM Northwest Talk Geocaching in Alaska, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, Washington, and Wyoming. Forum Led by: Moun10Bike, Team Misguided, MT Fellwalker 2,979 51,466 Today, 10:56 AM South and Southeast Talk Geocaching in Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Texas. Forum Led by: Crow T Robot, KY Admin, Max Cacher 2,351 13,367 Today, 05:18 AM West and Southwest Talk Geocaching in Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Nevada, New Mexico, and Utah. Forum Led by: Hemlock, Moose Mob 2,150 53,541 Today, 06:32 AM

Wherigo's zones have static positions. This is usually fine because most zones are tied to specific geographic areas. However, there are times when zones and characters need to be on the move. Almost all the examples I can think about involve catching something: Cops and Robbers - A robber is in his getaway vehicle. You have to catch the vehicle before the robbers get away. Indiana Jones - Remember that scene with the boulder? You're on the trail (you must keep on the trail or you lose) and a boulder comes after you. FTF competition - Someone is already on his/her way to a cache. You have to get to the cache before that other person. While you can use a timer on this, it's fun to see where the other person is, talk with him/her at any time, and affect that person's progress. Metal Gear - A game famous for its protagonist sneaking around guards and infiltration missions. You need to have your enemies moving around for the player to know when to time his/her action--and you don't know when the player will move or how many repetitions it will take. Finding Someone - You might need to find someone walking around a busy park. I have been thinking about this for a while: how can I make some zones imitate real life? I wanted to create a class and structure that would enable anyone to copy my code without knowing how it works and use it in their cartridge. You'd still have to know a little code in order to kick it off, but you most assuredly wouldn't have to know how it works. I have created a first version of what I call the ZoneMover class. Yes, it's as close to OOP lua as I can get, though you have to use a factory method to create an instance. Once copied into a cartridge, all you have to do to get your zone moving is to add something like the following code to your cartridge: --Array of ZoneMovers, if you want more than one going: zoneMovers = { nil } --A list of coordinates to move the zone: pointsToMove = { CreateZMPoint(ZonePoint(36.07674,-79.80593), 1, 1), CreateZMPoint(ZonePoint(36.07670,-79.80473), 10, 1), CreateZMPoint(ZonePoint(36.07764,-79.80464), 10, 1), CreateZMPoint(ZonePoint(36.07751,-79.80224), 20, 1), CreateZMPoint(ZonePoint(36.07408,-79.80254), 10, 1) } --Create the ZoneMover: zoneMovers[0] = CreateZoneMover(zoneMyZone, pointsToMove) --Run it: zoneMovers[0]:Run() The first section creates an array. I added that to this example just to mention you can have an array of ZoneMovers at your beck and call. As many as you want, running for your entertainment. The second section creates an array of ZMPoint objects (Zone Mover Points). This tells the ZoneMover how and where to move the zone. The arguments are as follows: a ZonePoint for the zone's final location, the number of seconds it will take to move the zone to that location, and the number of seconds the ZoneMover should pause before starting to move the zone to the next location. I'm using a shortcut in lua to make an array of ZMPoint objects. You'll also notice I'm using a method call to create the actual ZMPoint object. This is due to how objects have to be created; I'm saving you some steps by having a factory method like this. The third section of the above code shows you how to instantiate a ZoneMover class. Just as with the ZMPoint object, I'm using a method to create the ZoneMover object. The first argument is the zone I want moved and the other is the array of ZMPoints. The final section tells the ZoneMover to start moving the zone. It's possible to pause and resume the ZoneMover at any time. You can also attach events to each ZMPoint so something could happen when the ZoneMover finishes moving the zone to that point. There's even an event you can have executed when the ZoneMover finishes its work. For instance: zoneMovers[0].ZMPoints[4].OnComplete = function() Wherigo.MessageBox{Text=[[I am halfway there!]],} end zoneMovers[0].OnComplete = function() Wherigo.MessageBox{Text=[[Done!]],} end The ZoneMover and Oregons You'll see a problem if you have a ZoneMover active on an Oregon and your player wants to talk to an NPC. The cartridge will slow to a crawl. Because of this, I don't advise using the ZoneMover if your player will be interacting with characters. You can pause the ZoneMover before the player interacts with a character and it should be fine, though. Giving the ZoneMover New Coordinates Once the ZoneMover has been in operation, I've had odd problems with reissuing it a new array of ZMPoints. I have not had time to look into this. The same goes for a problem when telling the ZoneMover to reverse course after it completes all its moves. Implemented Version I implemented the ZoneMover in the cartridge Sadie's BiG Adventure. I open-sourced it so anyone can see the final version. The attachment There are lots of goodies inside the zip file: you'll find lua code, documentation, versions, a demo, and a Windows application I made. All this was created towards the beginning of February, so I don't know what all else is in there (in fact, I wrote the above post on Feb. 3rd and have been waiting to post it). The GeoJones lua script is a demo. You can run and play around with it. The MS Word document and the versions directory show you how I came up with all this. The document was made as I was creating the ZoneMover and explains what I was trying to do in each version and what I was thinking. I did not clean it up. There's good news for those of you thinking, "Geez, that's a lot of typing if I'm going to get a zone to move to a hundred places!" I'm just as lazy as you. That's why I created a ZoneMover Tracklog program. Load your tracklog into MapSource and copy that table of points into MS Excel and save the file. Run this application and click the button (it's your only choice). It will ask for the MS Excel sheet and it will output some lua code to a file. After that, just copy and paste it into your cartridge. I didn't localize the program, so I don't know how it will work for other date formats. Contributions Anyone is welcome to contribute. Currently, I have other projects that need my attention (and geocache logs to write), so I won't be able to come out with updates to requested features or reported bugs for a little while. ZoneMover.zip

I would be calling Garmin customer support direct. Talk through the problem with them. I had a problem after 6-8 weeks and the unit was replaced. That was 9 months ago Since then all OK I guess you have a12 month warranty anyway

Yeah, that's another thing. My phone's generally OK, but I lose phone service in various parts around town, some entire boondock villages, too. People say it shouldn't happen, their phone is fine. So evidently, I have a terrible phone company (Prepaid Straight Talk Wireless, and about their cheapest plan). Come to think of it, maybe I don't even care. I shall ponder this.

My phone doesn't have service in various parts of town. Iphone 8, and the same phone chip I took out of my 'droid phone that had similar issues. I think it's my prepaid phone service (Straight Talk Wireless). Anyway, I couldn't log if I wanted to. Which I tend to not want to, until I return to my PC and can type proper logs. But I hardly ever “claim FTF” anymore*. I sign a blank log, and my online log says that I found it, and I include the time I found it. People can figure it out. * An eye-opener was as a newb Geocaching, I made a log about how some cache was the first one I found that day. And it began to seem in the ensuing logs by FTF hounds, that they were intent to bite my head off, because THEY WERE FIRST, THEY WERE FTF, not me. Um. Just wow. Eventually, I pretty much decided to be a lot more careful with the word “first” in my logs. And I pretty much don't “claim FTF”, for any reason.

Well, it might be easier to talk it over with the CO. If the OP's intent is to "confront" before he's heard the CO's side of it , I can see why he'd want to go through a 3rd party.

Gosh, talk about doing it the hard way! We have heavy rain and possible storms forecast for Friday and Saturday, but hopefully nothing quite that severe. There's a couple of P&Gs I should be able to get to if I'm still in the running at that stage. I got number 3 today (although my stats page still only shows a streak of 2 days), a nice little Sidetracked multi at one of Sydney's northern railway stations, and I'm planning to do similar ones tomorrow and Thursday. A handy quirk in our railway's electronic ticketing system is that if you start your return journey within an hour of reaching your destination you don't get charged for it, so I need to make sure they're quick finds .

My husband forgot to get a cache where he teaches in another city, and I don't have a car. He was teaching in town tonight, when all the sirens went off, with very strong winds, the most severe lightning I've ever seen, and a possible tornado about 2 miles north of where he was teaching. Since all the warning sirens went off the students were able to leave a little early! Time's running out. Then we talk and figure out that all day long my account was locked, and now I can't see the coordinates of a geocache to tell him how to navigate there. Little panic. I frantically tried to jump thru all the GC hoops, and finally got my account back up. He'll be finding a cache on the way home, in the dark in the pouring rain and hope he doesn't get struck by lightning!

And yet they have repeatedly made business decisions that indicate otherwise. No, many players have repeatedly shown that they are unable or unwilling to take care and maintain cache quality, or cache owners have repeatedly shown that they don't care about their cache's quality. That is not Groundspeak. Please show Goundspeak's business decisions encourage "soggy film pots behind signs" in exchange for profits. Their community communications clearly advocate quality, fun, adventure, respect, community. How that plays out is entirely up to the player. Not Groundspeak. "Their community communications clearly advocate quality, fun, adventure, respect, community." Please explain how their implementation of mobile geocaching apps promotes "quality, fun, adventure, respect, community." I repeat: it's very easy to SAY anything. Their actions - the actual design of the site and the apps - speaks far louder. The touchy-feely email newsletters and blogs are meaningless when they don't even bother getting new users to confirm emails. Yep, my local council talks about how the teams who collect the rubbish and recycling are encouraged to clear up after themselves and put containers back where they found them. It doesn't mean I don't regularly need to complain that they left the place a mess and my recycling box went missing, again. The words talk a good game about how to be a responsible member of the caching community. The actions say something else, letting people with a track record of non-maintenance continue to publish new caches and allowing people to register without ever visiting the site and without ever providing an email address. The words talk of quality, fun, adventure. When so many film pots behind signs are published it's hard to see how the reality ties up with the talk. So when faced with a conflict between words and actions, I'll look at the actions. I'd have a real issue if they started grilling me about the nature of the container and approving/disapproving it based on that. It would add work, add a lot to time to the review process with probably at least one or two back-and-forth communications and would generally tick a lot of folks off. Some containers that are crappy in one place or environment may be the perfect choice in a totally different environment. I suspect Groundspeak is pretty hands-off for this reason. Best they can do is make suggestions and give examples...like they do in various parts of the GC site (for example).

And yet they have repeatedly made business decisions that indicate otherwise. No, many players have repeatedly shown that they are unable or unwilling to take care and maintain cache quality, or cache owners have repeatedly shown that they don't care about their cache's quality. That is not Groundspeak. Please show Goundspeak's business decisions encourage "soggy film pots behind signs" in exchange for profits. Their community communications clearly advocate quality, fun, adventure, respect, community. How that plays out is entirely up to the player. Not Groundspeak. "Their community communications clearly advocate quality, fun, adventure, respect, community." Please explain how their implementation of mobile geocaching apps promotes "quality, fun, adventure, respect, community." I repeat: it's very easy to SAY anything. Their actions - the actual design of the site and the apps - speaks far louder. The touchy-feely email newsletters and blogs are meaningless when they don't even bother getting new users to confirm emails. Yep, my local council talks about how the teams who collect the rubbish and recycling are encouraged to clear up after themselves and put containers back where they found them. It doesn't mean I don't regularly need to complain that they left the place a mess and my recycling box went missing, again. The words talk a good game about how to be a responsible member of the caching community. The actions say something else, letting people with a track record of non-maintenance continue to publish new caches and allowing people to register without ever visiting the site and without ever providing an email address. The words talk of quality, fun, adventure. When so many film pots behind signs are published it's hard to see how the reality ties up with the talk. So when faced with a conflict between words and actions, I'll look at the actions.

Yep, I know. The APE is on my tentative list as one can't stand on one leg, right? (found the one in Brazil last year). HQ, it depends on whether they are open around the time. The stash plaque... well, maybe. I'm rather looking at GC12 as I'm only in need of that date for completing my Jasmer challenge But I'll avoid the Going Ape event as I'm simple not into Megas in general. I'd rather go to a small event in a pub and talk to friends than being among masses of people I don't know. Basically I want to explore, enjoy nature, all the different landscape forms you mention. Might be tempted to try and get a Mount St. Helens permit And yes, so much to see in general! Utah last year was super difficult to plan as I knew I could not do everything, didn't want to do too long drives between parks and not sleep elsewhere every night. I think I stroke a fairly good balance by choosing Zion (Kolob turned out to be closed, so I went to Snow Canyon for that day), Bryce Canyon and Capitol Reef (the best) and planning the drive such that I could do some Jasmer caches.

Hi all, I was thinking of starting a geocaching Discord which is a easy place for UK based geocachers or people visiting the UK to connect and talk with other UK Geocachers. I thought it would be a fun place to help one and other out with puzzles or ideas for future caches. Remember sign up with your geocaching name to make it easier. Use the below link to join the discord server and it would be great to get to know you all. https://discord.gg/pm3bCC

That quote should come up every time someone looks at the submit-a-cache form. What about gadget caches? Often placed only in a location where it would be feasible, rarely about the location. It's a great quote, but I would never use it to presume that it's fundamental to every cache placement. It's something to keep in mind, but sometimes yes, the reason you bring people to a spot is the geocache. Better would be to consider that your bringing someone there either for the location, or the geocache. However... sometimes a cache is about the extended experience - it is to many people. So those who enjoy powertrail mentality would take issue with not including extended experiences. In that case it's not about each individual location, or each individual geocache, but the experience from start to finish. And then it gets more convoluted when you talk about 'why not make it a multi', and so on... Geocaching today ain't so cut and dry! Many different cache owners want to provide a wider variety of geocaching experiences than used to exist 'back in the day'. And not everyone enjoys every kind of experience. The fun part is finding a balance point, and that balance point is bordered by the guidelines and definition of 'geocaching' that Groundspeak wants to provide (as implemented by geocaching.com, since there are a couple of other sites with their own definitions as well).

>[ Extremely irresponsible cache owner behavior, done in anger to goad. See what happens @dprovan when you talk to some addicted COs. He archived without retrieving it and welcomes irresponsible finder behavior. katdude archived Westpoo Tree Hanger Saturday, 17 August 2019California W 3441.3 km from your home location "When you go to hide a geocache, think of the reason you are bringing people to that spot. If the only reason is for the geocache, then find a better spot." I should have thought better that just fun and exercise for everyone premium and basic. Feel free to log until container is stolen or I get a chance to remove. Remove and dispose as you see fit if you want. Unfortunate they have made so many cranky. All for fun in a GAME.

For me it's very easy to understand. The population is sick and tired of the same to-be-left-unnamed posters dominating and devolving every, single, thread, no matter how benign or useful the original post is. I find myself coming to the forums less and less frequently. I wonder if it's a dip in the interest in the game. Fewer people are passionate about the game, enough that they want to talk about it. Some of those that were passionate and informative have been banned. I haven't seen much talk in any other geocaching forum and facebook sites either. I think there is a combination of the two bolded statements that is killing discussion around here. That, and the fact that those discussed in the former either have no ability to grasp that they are killing discourse, or do see and yet feel the narcissastic need to be "right" anyway. I'm not sure it's an overall dip in interest, but I suspect the fact that one can play this game entirely from a smartphone may have obviated the need for many players to visit the website itself; thus, why visit the forums?

For me it's very easy to understand. The population is sick and tired of the same to-be-left-unnamed posters dominating and devolving every, single, thread, no matter how benign or useful the original post is. I find myself coming to the forums less and less frequently. I wonder if it's a dip in the interest in the game. Fewer people are passionate about the game, enough that they want to talk about it. Some of those that were passionate and informative have been banned. I haven't seen much talk in any other geocaching forum and facebook sites either. I think there is a combination of the two bolded statements that is killing discussion around here. That, and the fact that those discussed in the former either have no ability to grasp that they are killing discourse, or do see and yet feel the narcissastic need to be "right" anyway. I'm not sure it's an overall dip in interest, but I suspect the fact that one can play this game entirely from a smartphone may have obviated the need for many players to visit the website itself; thus, why visit the forums?