Wet Pancake Touring Club

I like the changes to the guidelines, I think that they are better than the previous ones. That being said, I think that there are a few improvements that could be made. I think that the whole 'near transportation centers' line should be re-written. The first reason, already hashed out in this thread, has to do with the definition of near. 'Nuff said. Likewise, there is ambiguity with what is a transportation center? Define a train station. Does it include the miniature train that runs around the local city park? Does bus station include any sheltered bus stop where multiple bus lines cross and transfers are allowed? And airports, who is the definitive source of airports? According to the FAA, there are four listed airports within the city of Coeur d'Alene, ID, population 50,000. They are a helipad for the hospital, two private helipads for local businesses, and a sea plane dock. Are these transportation centers because they are airports? As for the buried guideline, I think the rule could be clarified a bit. The hider is allowed to dig a hole to assist with the placement of a geocache (with the land owner's permission), however access to the geocache must not require digging on the part of the finder.

Ironically, my worst day geocaching was part of my best week of geocaching. I had a week long trip planned to the northwest quarter of Washington State. I was attempting to complete the WA State Park GeoTour. The goal was to find at least 100 of the 103 caches, and stamp a passport with the stamp located in the cache. I had spent the previous day getting across Washington (I am located in North Idaho), finding a couple of caches along the way. (That included finding the one at Steamboat State Park, which has a 700' elevation change in about half a mile.) The next day started out fine, until I got to one cache, and the stamp was missing. I knew of two other caches where the stamp was missing, along with another cache that was still under 10 feet of snow. That meant that I would not be able to complete my goal for the trip. I spent a lot of time agonizing whether I should give up, and just go home. I didn't, and this turned out to be a great trip. The rest of the trip was a lot of forts, and taking the ferry out to the San Juan Islands. There was one more missing cache on the trip. I did make a very long, very quick trip, several months later, to pick up all but one of the caches. I was only 1 of 2 out-of-state people to find 100 of the GeoTour caches.

I can see see a person that goes after PTs picking only those caches of a certain series, but it is a corner case. I've seen a number of overlapping PTs where one series is designed if you are going in one direction on the highway, and the other in the other direction. The CO doesn't want you weaving back and forth across the road. If my return is not back on the same road, I wouldn't want to see the caches designed to be found in the other direction.

When I am traveling to an unknown area for a specific cache, I will often scout the territory using Google Earth before heading out. For quite a number of caches, the geotrail is visible from space. Check out Potters Pond. Of course, this is a very popular cache, one of only three or four remaining that was placed in Aug 2000. It gets a lot of traffic. As for the original question, it would depend on the land manager as to whether they care or not. The multi-cache at Fields Springs State Park in Washington State has an obvious geotrail. Again, visible on Google Earth. In this case, the CO added a waymark for where you should leave the trail to get the cache. This all but guarantees that a geotrail would be formed. As the start point of the multicache is down a hill, the area stands a chance of being damaged by water runoff following the trail and eroding it. But the park definitely knows about this cache, they helped place it as part of a GeoTour. So, its not like they didn't know that a geotrail was going to happen. Do they attract muggles? Again, this would depend on the nature of the hide. At a rest area in CA on I5, there was a cache located inside a 4" diameter fence post. The trail was obvious, but unless someone thought to lift the post cap, the cache was not visible. How many muggles go around lifting fence post caps?

61. On that day, I also got 9 different caches types. It started with a bike ride event in Pullman, WA, on a local trail. That got event, traditional, multi-cache, and puzzle types. In the middle of the bike ride, there was a CITO event on the trail. After the bike ride, I did the local web cam cache in downtown Pullman. I found a letterbox hybrid at WSU, then went over to the University of Idaho for a virtual. A short half hour drive to Lewiston for an earthcache to complete the day.

Proof the world is not flat.

I don't see this service as a serious moneymaker for anyone. Based on the comments here, I don't see many of the forum regulars using such a service. That being said, I could see this kind of a service useful in a few specific cases. The first case is where a business will already be in the area for another reason, and can add cache maintenance to their list of services. Driving back and forth through Hell's Canyon I saw lots of rafting businesses. They might be willing to maintain a cache that was along the river, for a fee. But, it's not their main business. The other case deals with a more touchy subject. We all know that some of the "great old caches" are now community maintained, because the CO is no longer active. I don't want to debate the merits of community maintained caches, I just want point out that I could see a local geocaching related company or organization pay someone to maintain such a cache.

In my area, I don't see any evidence that the Cache Health Score has changed anything. On the other hand, there has always been a consistent stream of temp disable/archived logs from our local reviewer for the past several years. I think that our reviewer has been doing their own version of a cache health score for a while. As Keystone mentioned, he uses the fact that a reminder e-mail has/has not been sent as part of his decision making process. So, in that respect the reminder e-mail portion of the health score system does provide him (and indirectly us) with a benefit. Therefore, in his review area, it is changing things. Based on this, it appears that the Cache Health Score is improving the health of caches. On a tangent, in my opinion the health score is helping to improve the health of caches. However, I do believe that there are other changes that would also have a positive impact. Such as: For CO's that haven't been active for over a year, require positive acknowledgement that the CO is still active. Require positive acknowledgement that a cache is still active. Require a minimum number of words in a log so reviewers (and cachers) can get a better idea of the health of a cache. Streamline the NM/NA process (I think the new logging process addresses this, but I haven't logged any caches recently). Produce a list of changes to cache pages and have them reviewed on a routine basis.

My account name has both spaces and is over 20 characters long. Wonder when they will ask me to change it.

I get angry with two thing related to geocaching. I get really frosted with search and destroy cachers. Those that tear apart old rock walls, or bring a rake and rake all the dead pine needles under the tree into a 3 foot high pile. The other issue is cachers that put our reward trails or geotours, and don't maintain the caches. If you are going to put out a reward trail or geotour, the cache should be maintained to a higher standard. (That doesn't mean the problem has to be fixed immediately, but I do expect quick, timely updates on the cache status, and if you promise to fix something by a date, you keep your promise.) I did a geotour that required stamping a passport. Get 100 stamps, get a geocoin. I had a trip planned to get the remaining 40 stamps, scattered all over the state of Washington. A week long trip, with well over a 1000 miles of driving. On the third day, one of the caches was missing its stamp. That meant that I was going to be one stamp short of a 100. I agonized over continuing or not (I continued), but I wasn't angry. The CO responded that evening, confirmed the stamp was missing, disabled the cache, and let me know that they would be unable to replace the stamp for three weeks. I saw a number of others that were doing the geotour, and they left angry logs regarding the missing stamps.

It's a Trackable Promotion. GS partners with someone that wants to promote their name by releasing trackables. I went to an event that was solely for the purpose of handing out the Airstream trackables. That particular event was not commercial IMO. I showed up, ate ice cream, got a trackable, and talked with other geocachers. No Airstream salemen hanging around. They didn't bring a trailer to look at or anything.

Dang! I've got the problem now. Well, it was fun while it lasted. Getting French and German discovered logs on a trackable in my collection. This particular trackable is a micro-geocoin in the shape of the symbol for a multi-cache. I have one for each type of cache I have found. I drilled holes in them, and sewed them to my hat. Kind of a trophy/bragging hat. The code is on the back side, and is not visible. The only way to get the code is to ask me for it. Being as I rarely attend events, no one has ever asked me for it. Obviously, it was logged by someone trying all possible combinations, and getting lucky. Now it's on a list somewhere. Looks like I'm going to have to lock it now.

As narcissa points out, the kind of event cache proposed by the OP won't be allowed. You cannot create an event cache for the purpose of searching for geocaches. However, some do have an event, and simultaneously publish a list of caches, along with a route to follow to find the caches. In my neck of the woods, these are called "Cache Machines". Some of these are organized right here on the geocaching forum. Here's a forum post for one such Cache Machine. Note that they are organized in the location specific portion of the forum. I don't see any reason why someone couldn't do something similar, but use a list of caches that look to be having a problem. Call it a "DNF Cache Machine". It's not a team, there is no team name. It's not a single log entry, each cacher would be responsible for their own logging. That includes deciding whether or not a NM or NA is justified. And the caches would follow the normal multiple DNF/NM/NA archival process. The DNF Cache Machine would simply accelerate that process.

I am hopeful that GS is learning from prior GeoTours, and has created (and continues to update) a GeoTour list of best practices for organizations that sponsor GeoTours. I like doing GeoTours, but as mentioned above, some don't age well. Looking at GeoTours, I see a number of them put together by a conglomeration of people, companies, organizations and agencies. Individual cachers may be placing the caches, with the GeoTour being sponsored by a local tourism agency, and a company or two paying the bills. The person at the company that setup the payable has left, and the new person just pays the bill when it comes in. The logs go directly to the cacher, who may or may not still be active, or in the area. The local tourism bureau runs out of coins, but doesn't let the CO's know, so they can update the cache page. Anyhow, my point is that with some GeoTours, there are lots of moving parts, and they can get out of sync with each other. Best practice might be one or more email distribution lists for all of the parties involved. One for everyone and possibly one for the sponsors. These can be used by the groups and/or GS. To me, best practices would be for the cache owner on the cache page to be the actual cacher that placed and will maintain the cache. The GeoTour organizer should create a GC.com account, and place a watch on all of the caches in the GeoTour. If they see a problem, they can reach out to the CO to get it resolved. If the CO can no longer maintain the cache, the GeoTour organizer can work on getting the cache adopted by another cacher. The organizer(s) should be encouraged to monitor this area of the forum, and to routinely search for their GeoTour in the entire forum. I would hope that GS is contacting the GeoTour organizer on a routine basis (automated script), showing the total number of caches, find counts, DNF counts, the number with outstanding NM and NA logs, asking if rewards are still available, reminding the organizer on how to maintain the GeoTour web page on GC.com, etc. Anyhow, my 2 cents worth, and I probably owe change back on that.

I note that you used the word OR. Is this a change in the guidelines? I seem to recall that this used to be AND. I have found a handful of non-Geotour caches where you must enter a business in order to find the cache (or next waypoint), but were not required to interact with employees. One was even featured in the Geocaching newsletter. Lots of GeoTour caches require that you enter the business, but again, no requirement to interact with the owner or any employees.

I have been contemplating a multi-cache based (loosely) on the 'maze of twisty passages, all alike' part of the old text based Colossal Cave game. You have multiple rooms, where you can go multiple directions. These directions lead to more rooms. In the middle of this maze was the pirate's chest. (In the game, the key to mapping this area was to drop an item in each room, making it different.) So, pick a starting point. At that point, instead of a single set of coordinates, you have three or four. Which ever set you pick, it would take you to either the cache, or to another set of three or four coordinates. For each cacher, the route and the number of waypoints to get to the cache could be different. I figured about a dozen waypoints total would be a decent sized maze. The cacher would have to go to at least three waypoints before they could get the actual cache coordinates. No puzzle solving involved in this one, just guessing (and keeping track of coordinates).

While the guidance makes some sense when the "container" is a small magnetic strip, I know of a cache where the container is the log. The 'log' currently has 369 signatures on it (based on its find count), and is in no danger of running out of space. In this case, the container is approximately 4' x 7' x 12'. I also know of a cache where there is no container, just a log sheet. Actually, a letter sized yellow pad. Both of these are what I consider great caches.

Most we've seen were on a rear window, but yeah, any place you'd like it I guess. Mark it as collectible (for discover only), or folks will have your car logged as being in micros in other states. Funny once, but having to keep "grabbing" your car from others gets old quick. Those we've discovered were in parking lots , most times noticed going to/from events, but have noticed some elsewhere. Most of the car decals/stickers are too small for me to read safely while driving. However, my daughter-in-law got me this one. A fair number of the finds have been while I was driving down the highway (or while trying to find a parking spot at the last Block Party.) I have had people come up to me at events, and ask where is the trackable for my car. I tell them to step back 20 paces, and look again.

I am a bit apprehensive about this specific GeoTour. As background, I did a GeoTour during a long trip a couple of years ago. The first three caches were at local businesses. I almost packed it in right then and there. I decided to try one more cache, and if it was at a business, I was done. The next seven caches were in county parks and national forests. Covered bridges, waterfalls, old growth trees, it was great. All of the caches were regular sized, and were very well maintained. Since then, I have completed a total of six GeoTours. Most of these had some kind of commercial aspect to them. Five were promoted by local tourism boards, and one by a state park system. When I am deciding on whether to do a specific GeoTour, I look for a couple of things. How commercial is the GeoTour? How well maintained will the caches be? Will it take me to interesting locations? For this GeoTour, my initial impression is that the cache pages are not highly commercial. The web pages do has a logo on them. No offers to buy, no link to the company itself. However, when I follow the facebook link, it leads to what I consider a private page because it requires a facebook account in order to join the discussion. Sorry, I don't do facebook, and to me, that makes these web pages too commercial. If the page was publicly accessible, it might be a different story. As for how well these caches will be maintained, I also have some concerns. As near as I can tell, there is some kind of limited contest, a drawing of some kind, associated with these caches. One of the reasons organizations do drawings is to expand their potential customer list. So, what will happen to the caches after this contest is over? Will they be abandoned? There is no mention of any kind of weekly or monthly drawing to follow, so it is hard to judge. Also, all of the geocaches are micro. That generally means that the log fills up fast. Are they organizers prepared to do maintenance? It does look like it would take me to interesting locations. It appears to be in a large park or garden, one that would attract a lot of tourists, or maybe family outings. Yep, definitely an interesting location. On the other hand, lots of muggles poking around. Would logging these caches be easy to do in an inconspicuous manner? While I am still a big supporter of GeoTours in general, I'm not impressed with this specific GeoTour.

Washington State Parks had a similar issue. Most of their parks are seasonally closed. But they were running a GeoTour. One of their directors issued a memo (and published on their web site) allowing permission for geocachers to enter closed parks. You didn't have to carry a permit, nor did you have to carry a copy of the memo. I kept a copy with me just to be safe. If you go over to the GeoTours forum, there is a thread on the WA State Park GeoTour. The memo might be mentioned there. At the least, you can get the Geocacher Name for the person that was in charge of the GeoTour.

Maybe you accidentally set a filter. I have an Oregon 650, and I have done this several times, unknowingly. Small screen, large fingers. Look for the icon that looks like a funnel.

I agree that the people themselves can easily figure this out. But with the all the 'helpful' features that are embedded in operating systems, phone apps, web browsers, e-mail, etc., a reference to GC.com could be interpreted by my computer, and the next thing I know the world thinks I actually care about sports.

My hopefully future son-in-law is a civil engineer for a large state. My daughter and I introduced him to geocaching, and his travels let him geocache around the state.

Within the US, I don't see drone caching as something that would gain any kind of popularity. (Assuming you follow the rules to the letter.) I did a little research, because I might be leading a 4-H drone project, and my grandson has a drone. Looking at the FAA website, there is only one regulation that concerned me. It is, "Provide prior notification to the airport and air traffic control tower, if one is present, when flying within 5 miles of an airport." Well, that does not seem too bad. There is only one airport in my area, the Coeur d'Alene Airport. The FAA conveniently provides an app (B4UFLY) that will let you know if you are within the 5 miles radius of an airport. So, I downloaded the app, and took a look. (By the way, the airport cannot prevent you from flying a drone within the 5 mile radius, they can only object.) The FAA and I have a difference of opinion on what constitutes an airport. According to the app, there are around a dozen airports in the Coeur d'Alene, ID area. The helipad at the hospital is an airport. So is the seaplane launch area on the lake. I looked at one that was right near my house. I didn't know it was there. Turns out, yes there was an airstrip in the past, and has been abandoned for years. It's still in the FAA database. Every little airstrip registered by a farmer or rancher is listed. These are all considered airports, and they are all over the place. I would estimate that within 30 miles of my house, at least half of that area is within 5 miles of an airport. So, if I plan to drive around caching, and plan on using a drone at each cache, technically I would need to use the app to determine if there is a nearby airport. If there is one, I would have to try and find it in the FAA database (the app does not give you an ID, just a name) to get the contact information. I might need to call directory assistance for a phone number. For an airport with an ATC, this might require multiple calls to find the right number. All this before I can make that 15 minutes of flying to retrieve the cache. That's assuming a traditional, imagine a multi-cache.