CanUSeeIT

Except that GSAK is a Windows-only application, and needs to be installed, thus creating it's own challenges for many users. Yes, it's an alternative, but it seems that a better alternative is to not create the problem in the first place.

It seems clear from all of these comments that this "feature" needs to be pulled. I have used it to log several finds, and I have to say it was not a pleasant experience. I would like to kindly request you roll this back so that we can continue with our caching lives, happily logging thoughtful, complete, and informative logs.

I had the opportunity to try this out this morning. Here's what actually happened: - There was an actual second Needs Maintenance log created, just like in the Olden Days. - I had chosen the "Other" option, because, of course, the situation didn't fit any other response. - After choosing "Other", there was no prompt the ask me what the Other Information was. - The circle-i icon/button turned green. - After submitting the log, I went back to the cache page and found my NM log. I don't remember exactly what the text said, but it was something close to "This geocacher has reported that there is a problem with this cache." - As that was NOT what I wanted to say, I used the "Edit" feature, which brought me to the "old" log edit page, where I was able to correct the text. I was even able to use the formatting toolbar (because, well, it existed) to highlight some important points to my message to the CO. So, it seems that, at present, we can still have some control over the message, it's just a convoluted process.

I can only assume this comment refers to my post, because I see it has been deleted. I'm afraid I must stand by my post (which clearly I can't restate here). It was not meant to be disrespectful, and I thought I stated that clearly. I used no inappropriate or disrespectful language. I even used the phrase "I respectfully suggest..." You are advertising open positions at HQ for developers who would be responsible to build features such as this new logging page. Clearly you (HQ) realize you need the talents of those missing developers, or you wouldn't be trying to fill those positions. If you had them, I'd like to hope that this change would have been done differently, in a way that would delight your users, not irritate them. HQ has a persistent problem with ignoring feedback the community gives you. You launch changes to the site that are not well received, you get feedback from your community that is overwhelmingly negative, and yet you continue with the changes. Recent examples that come to mind: - The new Search Page - The Changes to the Maps - The phone app Now this. I'm sorry that you found offense in my previous post. It was meant as feedback to a problem that is wider than this one issue (the new logging page). This issue is the just the newest illustration of the problem, and as a member of this community, I still feel it's important to say that.

It's not actually. Only the first 5 trackables in the list are shown, unless you notice and click on the "Show More" link at the bottom. This list should show all of the trackables a user has, if they've chosen to show the list. Even the "first" five is arbitrary, they are not sorted in any particular order I can discern.

Here we go again. Did people complain about the old form? It worked fine, and frankly looked better. 1. Lost the formatting toolbar. (lost functionality) 2.a. Logging trackables requires expanding the list (extra click) 2.b. Expanding trackables list only shows five 5. Why? I expanded so clearly I want to see them all. (another extra click) 3. Form is too narrow, lots of wasted space. 4. Hiding functions behind icons is not discoverable. e.g. Favorite Point = Heart. It isn't clear that clicking it is a toggle until the user experiments by clicking around. "I wonder what this heart does if I click it?" 5. Design is inconsistent: - Border around "log type" drop-down, none around date. - Caption beside "Needs Maintenance", none for photo or FP. 6. Why are the functions scattered around the big text box? Log type and date at the top, photo and FP bottom left, NM on the bottom right. There is no consistency. I have to look all over for no good reason. 7. Cache title is too subtle (grey font on grey background) and outside the bounds of the "working area". 8. No visual differentiation from cache name and the CO's name, separated only with "by" in the same font. In the old form, because both were links, the "by" separated them. Imagine a CO named "River" hiding a cache named "Paddling by River" - it would look like "Paddling by River by River". The old form would look like "Paddling by River by River" 9. The title of the form (the call to action) is below the title of the cache, opposite of the old design, which was clear. The new functionality (combining NM logs with Found or DNF logs) could have easily been done with a simple change to the old form (add a checkbox and a new textbox appears when checked). Stop trying to make the website look like a phone app!!! Seriously!! This is just change for the sake of change. Read all the feedback you got on the map changes. Just stop it!

I just went back a skimmed the User Insights topic that HQ posted back in March 2015. It discussed what people liked or didn't like about the map. There were a few common themes: - Besides "dead icons" (nothing happens when you click on them) it works pretty well. - A few new features were mentioned. - Nobody complained about the shape or color of the icons. - Don't mess it up by turning it into a phone app map!! This makes me continue to wonder why these changes were made in the first place. You asked the community, we answered. You went the other way. Why?

This pretty much describes the old icons. Which worked well, and nobody asked to be changed.

I'm really sorry to say, this makes me sad. I certainly appreciate that these changes were made to address the concerns of the population that complained about the accessibility issues (colorblindness) , but there are five pages of comments about this release, almost universally negative. The best solution would have been a roll-back. Instead, the message delivered is "We're making this change because we want to make this change, and the users will learn to live with it. We'll change the colors a bit to avoid ADA concerns, but that's it. " The sadness comes from the feeling that concerns of so many users are being ignored. These are the users who care enough to write their concerns on these forums. These concerns have been thoughtful, and well-considered, not ungrateful users who just hate change. Please, listen to your users.

Also, it's interesting that this hasn't been brought up as a concern for app users? I think with a quick review of the forums it's pretty clear that the app has been getting the same complaints. There are just so may of them though, that the icon complaints were drowned-out. Nonetheless, the complaints have been ignored.

Tried that, months ago. That worked out about as well as I'm guessing these complaints will.

With all of the complaints about the new icons in the app, I am astonished that the website has been changed to match the design that users have been complaining about for months. Many of the example screen-shots show the icons against the "Map" view, but never the "Satellite" view. The new icons are pretty useless in Satellite view, because they get completely lost in the visual clutter. The old icons were just fine. Here are some of the points I made about the app's icons, months ago:

In following with this topic (of Groundspeak / Geocaching.com not listening), I thought I had found a way to encourage a dialog. The "User Insights" forum is presumably a place where they would like to know what we think about certain topics. There are 10 topics on that forum, and there is nothing about the apps in that list. It is also not possible to add that as a topic for discussion. They're not even trying.

These are already included in some of the officially approved third party partner apps. Unless there is a specific reason that Groundspeak is still trying to develop their own in-house app, it would almost make more sense to endorse the use of the third party apps. I've seen new people get extremely frustrated with the new app and that gives them no desire to continue caching. That's the real problem. There is no good "intro" app anymore for new cachers. The official app is hobbled, and the 3rd-party apps cost money. Neither situation is a good introduction. I was recently asked to recommend one to a beginner. I didn't have a clear winner to point them to. The best I could say was "Buy Cachly for the $5, and if you don't like it I'll buy you a Starbucks." Of course, Cachly is lacking that fabulous "you're close" notification, and the "got it" buttons that pop up all the time, but somehow she'll get by </sarcasm>

I don't work at HQ, so this is my own uninformed opinion, but I would expect that funding for different projects comes out of different buckets. Geotours are a source of revenue, and those paying for tours have different sets of priorities than we do as geocachers, and are asking for different features. So perhaps one developer or one half developer is being funded by the geotour project, and other developers are working general app stuff and hopefully looking at requests from the community who are also a source of revenue. I think that is the only explanation that makes any sense, otherwise this is a completely baffling feature. The entire app still has the feel of a tutorial for beginners (how many times do I need to tap 'got it' on a button explaining what kind of cache I'm looking at?), and that would be fine if it was made clear that that was the purpose of the app (the old "Intro app" was honestly a better name for this thing). But how many people who need help with cache types are going to searching for GeoTours? And by their GT codes (which are not readily available)?

Was ANYBODY asking for this feature?

When I originally posted this (June 5, 2016) I also emailed a copy directly to support, since my concern was that nobody at HQ would ever read this post. After a week or so, I got back a reply, saying I had raised a good point, and that the message would be shown to "the right people". Since that time I have not seen any communication at all to the community about the state of the apps. Today the free app was updated to explain GeoTours. Seriously HQ, you are not listening to your community.

I'm not suggesting a response to every complaint at all, and I'm sorry I didn't make that clear. I'm asking for an acknowledgment to the community at large, perhaps on the blog, newsletters, etc. that there is a problem, and a plan to fix it. As an example, GC saw a problem with challenge caches. They saw the problem, acknowledged it, asked for input from the community, determined a course of action to improve the situation, and now there is a new framework in place to address the issues. The key thing is that they communicated with the community. I have not seen that kind of communication regarding the apps, and I think the argument could be made that the apps problems affect a greater percentage of cachers than the challenges problem. Perhaps the challenges "hit home" more strongly with GC than the apps, because they were directly affected. Of course, I'm just speculating here.

It seems very clear that the state of the apps is not making most cachers happy. I won't rehash the numerous problems with the apps, or the business model (paid / free / premium account requirements/ etc.) because there are hundreds of posts on these forums that go into detail on every complaint. And while I don't like to be a complainer, because I know how very hard it is to get something like this right, the biggest problem (to me anyway) seems to be the lack of response from GC. The community is trying to give you feedback. You may be reading these posts, and gathering new insights, and formulating options. But we can't tell. We don't see the changes coming, but more importantly, we don't hear any kind of acknowledgment that there is a problem. It's irritating that I've played for an app and also paid for a premium account (happy to do so), and yet the experience has become worse, not better. But the worst part is, I am hearing nothing to make me feel like there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Listen to the feedback. There is a lot of it. And it's clear from the sheer volume, that the new direction is not working. It's ok to step back. Restore the old "paid" app until the new one is at least as good. But more importantly, let us know you hear us.

I have to say first that I'm really trying to like the new app, I really am. But it's not going well. I get that there are still missing features, and I have faith that they will be added. But in my opinion the new UI is just a big step backwards. I'll just mention the maps view: - The icon showing your current location is exactly the same size, shape, and color as the icon for a mystery cache. Sure, the location icon animates a bit, but then you have to stare at your screen for a few seconds to tell the difference. - The green color of the new icons is so close to the color of grass and trees, in satellite views you can't easily see the icon, especially if there is sunlight anywhere near your screen, which does happen when I'm outdoors, you know, Geocaching. - The icons now have a grey border, which is the same color as roads and trails in the satellite views. It also serves to make the icon blend in well to the map. Like camouflage. These icons should not be hidden, like actual geocaches are. - Even my found caches now have smiles that are subtle, almost sadly subtle, like they're a bit embarrassed to have been found. The old icons were bright and vibrant, and clear. The new icons make me work too hard to see. Happy Icons Sad Icons