stevesisti

Why would you really need projection to a 100th of a mile. Thats 52 ft. When your projecting a waypoint and deciding how far out to make your projection, in practical terms, overlooking your terrain, it's virtually impossible to estimate distance visually within 50 ft at even 1/8 mi away. I would think 1/10 mi or 500 ft is even overkill for waypoint projection. Is there a practical application you have where you need the 50ft accuracy ? My understanding of projecing a waypoint was to establish a course line to your target....once you project past the target, you always have a courseline 'over" the target.

You could just back the screws off manually once you get the unit. The only reason the casing is cracking is that Magellan set the standard torque rate on the screws too high. If you back them off a little before it cracks, you won't have to worry. That still doesn't make up for the fact that its a major engineering flaw though. At least its user correctable though, unlike Garmin's problem units. Hmmmm.....Don't know where you got this info from, but if that was the case, rather than having to repair all the cracking units, a smart move would have been to "untorque" all the newer units before shipment. As this appears to be a continuing problem, even on newer units, I would suspect it is a mold design problem where a bad cross-section design has allowed the natural molding shrinkage to put stress on the thinest parts....thus causing cracking. If it was a "screw tightening" problem, which is a manufacturing problem, not a design problem... it would have been fixed a year ago. If the mold/material design is defective...it just might be more cost effective to live with the returns than redesign/rework a very, very expensive multi-cavity mold .

Well you should be even happier as you can download the tide data from the Garmin site into your 60cs tonite when it arrives.

Actually moonrise and moonset is not "every 24 3/4 hours". On the 16th of this month (and many other days) they both happen in one day within 16 hrs of each other. See the chart below. I believe your 24 3/4 hour figure is the time it takes the earth to rotate to the point where the moon is again aligned with the earth. Since the moon traveled through it's orbit while the earth was rotating, the "extra" 3/4 hour is needed to "catch up" to where the moon moved to. This would explain the tidal time "ADVANCE" on a daily basis. U.S. Naval Observatory Astronomical Applications Department Sun and Moon Data for One Day The following information is provided for Piermont, Rockland County, New York (longitude W73.9, latitude N41.0): Wednesday 16 June 2004 Eastern Daylight Time SUN Begin civil twilight 4:49 a.m. Sunrise 5:23 a.m. Sun transit 12:56 p.m. Sunset 8:30 p.m. End civil twilight 9:04 p.m. MOON Moonset 6:53 p.m. on preceding day Moonrise 4:12 a.m. Moon transit 11:59 a.m. Moonset 7:54 p.m. Moonrise 4:50 a.m. on following day

There are certain days when the moonrise doesn't happen exactly within a 24 hr period, and actually happens a short time into the "next day", so the Moonrise field for that day will be blank. I believe the same can happen with the moonset also. Moonrise and moonset tables show these oddities also, so I believe your unit is behaving corectly. Today happens to be one of those days, as you can see from the naval observatory table below. The moonrises are on the preceeding and the following morning U.S. Naval Observatory Astronomical Applications Department Sun and Moon Data for One Day The following information is provided for Piermont, Rockland County, New York (longitude W73.9, latitude N41.0): Sunday 6 June 2004 Eastern Daylight Time SUN Begin civil twilight 4:51 a.m. Sunrise 5:24 a.m. Sun transit 12:54 p.m. Sunset 8:25 p.m. End civil twilight 8:59 p.m. MOON Moonrise 11:40 p.m. on preceding day Moon transit 4:12 a.m. Moonset 8:49 a.m. Moonrise 12:23 a.m. on following day You can double check yourself here, http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneDay.html

The topic has been covered before...without much fanfare.....as apparently few people really are interested in getting "all" the detail they can from "saved" tracks. Not sure what Garmins logic is, but it's simply a matter of a software correction to make everyone happy. From a practical point of view, having the ability to save two (2) tracks with the "active" characteristics would do the job for most if not all. Accurately documenting where you have gone during an outing is simple, easy, and acurate with an "active" (not-saved) track. Using a "saved" track to do the same is not just a compromise...it's worthless. Change the format.....2 "detailed" active/saved tracks available....the balance of memory would be the limited info "saved" tracks.

Given your very basic requirements, I'd suggest a Garmin Geko 101 or 201. An eTrex "yellow" would be fine too. In this situation, I'd go for a sturdy Garmin or Magellen and get the cheapest model. As long as you don't stray from one of those two brands you should be OK. Given a choice I would take a higher quantity of "lesser" priced units to put more units in the hands of the students....you might also want to write/call Garmin and ask if they have any programs to aid in price consideration for edcational institutions. If you don't ask...you'll never know.

The problem you might run into is that were you to cut away the piece..you might cut into a "hollow section" and then create an opening into the unit. Probably best to just return the unit for repair....or grind/cut away and if you don't create an opening , use it the way it is. If you do make an opening into the unit, I would return it for repair.

Maybe a little bit off topic...but I wonder. For all us otdoorsey type people, battery types and options have always presented a problem from GPs's to cameras, to sonar units etc. My main gripe is that we all like the "cost and convenience" of Ni-MH batteries...that's a given...the only problem is that in most cases, back-up NI-MH batteries are "proprietary" batteries, with a significant cost for keeping a "spare-on-hand". Additionally, my understanding is the NI-MH rechargeables have a very high "self discharge" rate. Fully charged, if you don't use your unit, in three weeks you have a problem.....Why can't most manufatures make a simple easy alkaline backup pack...alkaline cause you can leave them for months or longer and they still maintain their full capacity...no self discharge. The weight of carrying a small alkaline backup pack is really insignificant, but guarantees that even after months of bad "power management (laziness)", in the worst case you still are "good to go" for at least a days worrth of usage. Also would be nice if everyone standarized on AA batteries or other for smaller electronic equipment.... then you could carry a single size batt (spare AA's) and the light weight plastic "back-up" packs for your particular unit. Why duplicate the effort from radio, to gps, to sonar, to camera, to CD and on and on.

Ditto... I'll take double memory over geocaching feature any day... And.. I had owned a 76s and loved it. The increased memory is a plus for me...my one dislike...your hands are covering the screen while you are pushing the menu buttons due to the way you have to hold the unit...60cs is much more intuitive to hold, and easier for one handed operation of buttons.

I thought NG topo was supposed to have "seamless" maps. Why does it look like the image is split down the center? (It almost looks like the left side has more contour lines than the right side??) Well, they are "seamless", when seamless means that you can scroll/crop uniterrupted across map area USGS quads on which the NG topo is based. These maps are scanned, and quite often the original USGS maps were made on different dates, by different people, using different equipment. Same would be true of the scanning process. It is quite common to see different "colors" on adjacent quads. But one would think in these modern times, it would be fairly easy to "color adjust" adjoining quads to a standard......guess not.

Does the data get compacted when you save the track or just truncated? In my experience, it seems like it gets truncated, losing part of the track. RM I'm also interested in seeing revisions to the active track log vs the saved one. My understanding is that when you "save a track", it's a max of 500 points done by some internal algorithm or "logic" reduction from the 10,000 max of the active track...omitting points at straight sections while "protecting" the ones in "turns". If you hike 10 miles...using the "active" track you can theoretically lay a point every 5 ft or so. If you were to save the track and reuse it in the future as a "saved" track.....you will only see a point every 105ft or so. And then you are at the mercy of Garmins logic for "dropping" points during the saving process. Seems a compromise in having 2 "active" track lengths of 10,000 points and 20 svaed of 500 would allow some people to get the maore "detailed" tracks they require. Personally I like recording and saving tracks for my favorite hiking areas...500 points on a long hike just isn't enough detail for me. Truncating or "shortening" a track occurs in the "active" track when you fill the 10,000 max points and have "allow wrap" selected. Saving doesn't "truncate" per say, it just drops a hell of a lot of the points to fit it into the 500 max saved track allocation.

I think I understand with the Garmin 60CS, that one has the option to download the active track with all it's detail and also to reload the active track back into the unit. What info fields do you get in downloading an active track, and what do you lose by saving it as a tracklog, in addition obviously to the truncated number of track points. (regards time, altitude, etc)

Go to the ozi-explorer site and download the trial version...in the trial version you will find several example (.map) files. Or you can load into OZI your own DRG dwg and ozi converts it to a .map file.

3/4 of a mile for a dog is rediculous...they don't have the ability to rest or "float", he will be paddling full time. Most "good swimming" dogs are good for 5 min or so and then they really struggle. Go by yourself and wear a PFD....I suppose you would tell me that you have never gotten a leg cramp while swimming before, but it happens all too often, even for people who swim recreationally. Seal-line dry bags are excellent for keeping your goods dry...I don't know if you have ever "towed" something while swimming but it is a hassle, most likely reducing your "swim" to a crawl. A reasonable approach would be to paddle out on a surfboard or boogie board, with a small backpack containing the dry bag inside. I can almost promise you that if you were to swim there, facing the return trip, you'll be glad to have the floating board.

Actually, I don't own either of them. Currently I am downloading (for free) The USGS 1:24,000 quads and viewing them in Ozi Explorer, Global mapper, and 3 DEM. USGS also produces 1:100,000 scale maps, which obviously have much less detail. My point is, that if you don't know the scale of the maps you are comparing...you really can't make a comparison. For example, it's pointless to compare one company's "state series" (1:24K), to another companies "regional" (1:100K) series. Topo 5 which you mentioned, appears to be based on the 1:100K maps, and you are comparing them to NG, but you don't say which NG. If it's the NG regional series (1:100K), than you have a fair comparison...If it's the NG state series, your comparing topo 5 (1:100K) to NG state (1:24K), which wouldn't be a fair comparison. I have borrowed the New York state series (1:24K) of both Delorme and National Geo to compare them, and personally I like the NG better. If I purchased one it would be NG. Right now I download the free DEM (digital elevation) maps from USGS, and load them into Global Mapper where I can designate different color levels for different elevations..then using global mapper, I can generate labeled contour lines at what ever interval I want..finally I overlay another map product, DOT, which shows all the roads, bldgs etc. To me, the finished result is awesome, but admittedly a lot of work. Something most people wouldn't care to futz around with. To stricly use a product in conjunction with a GPS...I would use the NG State series Topo. As far as you location being off in the Delorme map...could be a number of reasons, some of which have nothing to do with the accuracy of the map, some of which do.

I think most people are missing the point here...before you decide on one "brand" map vs another....make sure you are comparing products of the same map scale. A delorme 1:24000 topo, regardless of brand preference, will have more detail than a N Geographic of 1:100,000 scale, and vice versa. The scale of the maps is what provides the detail, and thus it's "size" as a digital file. How can you have the whole eastern US on one CD and just one state on another....simple...the amount of detail provided, or simply, the scale of the map. "True" scanned USGS 1:24,000 topo maps will always show a slight variation in colors across map quads. That's a normal variation you will get between different map scans done at different times, by different scanners. For the most part, map vendors like Delorme and National Geo, use these 1:24,000 quads as supplied from USGS, with little or no added detail. What they do add is the "seamless Look" of color blending bordering maps, integrating digital elevation data with the "2D" USGS 24 K maps, and in some cases 3d rendering. As a final note...living in the New York metroploitan area..all the USGS 1:24,000 quad topo maps are available for free to anyone to download from our US government. These are scanned images of the original USGS maps. There are a number of "free" map viewers available on-line for you "test drive" the detail of these maps(globall mapper, 3-DEM,OZI-explorer, etc.). And there are also a number of software packages, like OZi-explorer, which for a modest fee(also has free trial version) will let you use this "free" USGS source of 24K maps to make your own personalized maps, trails, waypoints, tracks, and notes .....including the uploading and downloading of tracks, trails, routes etc. to your GPs units . "Free" maps is a misnomer.....As taxpayers, we already paid for these 1:24K maps to be produced and scanned.....since you already paid for it....don't feel bad about using it

No..that would be incorrect The 3D topo quads, sold by state, are based on 1:24000 usgs quad maps, and as such have a nice amount of detail. Topo Usa, the "apparent" bargain, does not say it is based on the fine detail of the 1:24000 USGS maps, and judging by the sample maps they show, are really lacking in detail. Also their omission of just what scale the "topo USA" maps are based on, should be an indication in itself that they are not as detailed as the 1:24K maps from either Delorme or National Geo. Be careful, your not comparing apples to apples....actually more like apples to crabapples If you were to go Garmins site, they offer two levels of detail also...one is called topo east...the other is us Topo 24K...the 24 K has much more detail than the other. A simple e-mail to delorme will probably confirm this.

I am new to GPS, and am going to purchase a 60cs. I have read a lot in preparation of buying...but i still am confused how Garmin Mapsource, the 60 CS, and saved trackpoints work. Is the following a correct summation of the way the trackpoints work. I can create a tracklog of up to 10,000points...at that point I have to save it and start another track if I want to keep logging without "wrapping" and overwriting data. If I save it, the track is condensed, or abbreviated. Is there anyway to know "how much" it's abbreviated. If I don't save (abbreviate) the track, before I reach the 10.000 point limit, can I download the 10,ooo points to Mapsource, and once it is in Mapsource, send those 10,000 points back into the 60 CS at a future date. Not that I would want to, or is 500 trackpoints the max in a single saved track that can be downloaded back to the 60CS. Mapping would be one of my more frequent uses and understanding this would help. Thanks in advance for your replies.

quote:Originally posted by 3fros:Here's a link that compares the 76S to the sporTrak. It's not a comparison with the legend, but it shows information on the accuracy of the SporTrak which is very enlightening. http://www.gpsinformation.net/mgoldreview/sportrak-pro-trees.html Here's the article that it comes from. http://www.gpsinformation.net/mgoldreview/sportrak-pro-rev.html I think you are missing the main point here. The tests you quote were done under very specific conditions. A fixed location with Waas enabled. I too was impressed upon viewing this info until I started reading how real world sportrack users were dissappointed with the accuracy they were getting when laying tracks. I'm not saying it's worse than comparable units, but it looked so good based on this static report, it almost sets you up for "real world" disappontment. I've also heard users say that having WAAS on when you can't get a good read on the WAAS satellites will give you less accuracy than if WAAS were off. Maybe Sportrack users are best off disabling WAAS when they can't get a strong lock. I'd be curious to know if Jeff had WAAS on during his track recording, and if he did, what would the track look like with WAAS off. I was also originally impressed with the reported increased reception under heavy tree cover...again to only hear many people say that in "real world" usage, while the sportrack says it still has a lock when other units "lose lock", in reality it appears to some users that the sportrack is just "guessing" at this point and it's reported positions show wild variatons. Personally I'm back to square one, as I was looking to purchase a Sportrack because of it's perceived higher reception and accuracy. I'm not sure that is true anymore. Steve

I am aware that the 76S "compresses" a route when you save it as a backtrack. But if you just save the track alone, and then download to a mapping program, is there still compression that takes place where you would "lose" information, or is the track down-loaded in it's entirety. Steve

All LCD displays are prone to freezing. As there are different types (some freeze at 32 F and some at -30F), I would go with the manufacturers guidelines. It is possible, once frozen, to slowly thaw and bring the unit to normal operating temps and all will be fine. But as in my friends laptop computer, it is also possible to permanently ruin or darken the screen. Of course he wasn't covered under warranty. In the area where you live....I would take it in at night. Steve

I don't think it really means anything. It's entirely possible that a store with a retail side to it could have let someone "play with" the unit, and thus effect the satellite lock. It's also common, as stated here several times, employees often "borrow" a unit to try out and again could easily screw things up for the ultimate person who winds up with the unit. Several times I have purchased electronic items only to return them because obviously someone had "used" or tinkered with something that was supposed to be "new". That aside, how do you like the map76S, I'm leaning toward gwtting one if I can just get this reception thing straightened out. I'd be happy if I knew the MAp76S with an external antenna has as good reception as the sportrak/meridian line. Steve

I have read in several places that the garmin "backtrack" feature in the MAp76S reduces the track points when you convert your "breadcrumb" trail into a backtrack. If i were to save the "breadcrumb" track and then download it to something like oziexplorer, can I then recreate a backtrack or reverse route which uses the un-abbreviated, more accurate track points. Steve

What if they have already robbed you and you just haven't noticed or discovered the missing items yet :0) Steve